14.1" Colour Accuracy of LCD for Pro Photography

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Mr. The Guy · #1 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:44 pm

I need a laptop when I'm on assignment as a writer/photographer.
I understand the 1600x1200 Flexview would be optimal, but cannot find it in the latest tabook with a Core 2 Duo (I run linux and want 64-bit). I also do not really want a 15" because of size, or a T60p because of the extra price and battery-sucking separate memory card. I do not care about 3D rendering multi-media playback or gaming. I also do not want a x60(s) because the limited 1024x768 is not very useful when I design websites. I prefer a matte finish and 4:3. Robustness is the third thing I want after colour accuracy and battery life, hence the T60. The model that is more than I want to spend, but can swing, is a 1953EQU (5500) AC/DC, UltraBay battery w/the sale on 100GB, 9-cell and DVD. I don't want a C100, N100 or V100 Lenovo because of the lack of a trackpoint.
My questions is for those who process RAW. How good is the colour accuracy on the 1400x1050?
Who has Thinkpads for retail display in Calgary?
If I am forced to get a 15", can I get the FlexView in a matte finish?
Which is the best LCD finish for outdoor use?
Are the terms FlexView and IPS synonymous? Can I get IPS without FlexView and vice versa? What would either of those give me?
Thanks.

seeplus · #2 Post by **seeplus** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:53 am

Flexview = ips = discontinued

I believe CDW still has some 15" 1600x1200 IPS T60p's in stock ($2,499 last I checked. ) If the panel on your thinkpad will be the primary panel on which you do your editing, the IPS is definitely the best choice. All present thinkpad screens are matte finish.

*chris

Mr. The Guy · #3 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:34 am

seeplus wrote:Flexview = ips = discontinued
*chris

Thanks for the reply. Just so no one else gets confused, only the 1600x1200 is discontinued on the T60p, but that is not what I'm asking as $2,500 for a non-Core 2 Duo is not a good value IMHO. I am leaning towards a T60 even without Flexview in a 14.1" 1400x1050 (+$50) vs. a larger, 15" FlexView (+$365 w/a power-sucking video card). Why is the FlexView better? I can live with having to angle the screen (like I have to now in my 5 yr. old ECS (yecch), but my question is most specifically about colour accuracy after I calibrate the screen, not viewing angles or brightness. Is the colour in a non-FlexView consistent throughout the screen?
Since both types of LCD are 6 or 8-bit instead of the 16-bit that my TIFFs converted from RAW files are, what effect will this have on my ability to accurately check colour?
All my local retailers only have glossy, wide-screen, non-Thinkpads on display and I don't like any of them...
As another follow-up, on a point I may be mixed up with in matte vs. glossy, what is better for outdoor use? FlexView of not?
Doesn't the T60 have the best screen available on the market, and if not which model does? Or, should I be forced to consider an Apple(Asus)? If there's any good links for me that would be great!
Thanks.

perry_78 · #4 Post by **perry_78** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:47 am

At least from my experience the TMD screen is pretty crap for photoshop work, compared to "professional" displays. I wouldn't recommed amything other than the flexview for photo related work within the thinkpad range.

Mr. The Guy · #5 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:30 pm

perry_78 wrote:At least from my experience the TMD screen is pretty crap for photoshop work, compared to "professional" displays. I wouldn't recommed amything other than the flexview for photo related work within the thinkpad range.

Please define exactly what is 'crap' (my specific question is regarding consistent colour accuracy). My interest is not manipulating/editing images in Photoshop, but simply converting RAW in the field and making sure the colours are correct. What is a 'professional' display in your opinion?

Talon88 · #6 Post by **Talon88** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:37 pm

:::

Mr. The Guy,

I don't think any of notebook or monitor are
100% colour accurate. I mean even same model
of notebook or monitor!

All you need is a device + Software that can auto adjust
the screen to a standard. This thing is call
"Colour Spyder" which is using by many Semi-Pro or Pro.
Take a look.....! They have different version for different
people!

Hope this help.....!

http://www.colorvision.ch/products/prod ... xpress.php

:::

hoya · #7 Post by **hoya** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:59 pm

a picture is worth a thousand words, and I have taken many of various thinkPad panels:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11221256@N00/?saved=1

http://home.att.net/~murphj/wsb/html/vi ... html-.html

Mr. The Guy · #8 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:16 pm

Talon88 wrote::::

the screen to a standard. This thing is call
"Colour Spyder" which is using by many Semi-Pro or Pro.
http://www.colorvision.ch/products/prod ... xpress.php

:::

I know how to colour calibrate, my concern is consistency among the entire screen, and how a non-FlexView compares to the screen of other manufacturers.

Mr. The Guy · #9 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:20 pm

hoya wrote:a picture is worth a thousand words, and I have taken many of various thinkPad panels:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11221256@N00/?saved=1

Awesome, it looks like FlexView is better. Were these pictures taken without flash? Just to be clear, is the 1400x1050 FlexView made by LG, or is that the 1600x1200?
Thanks again for the photos.

hoya · #10 Post by **hoya** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:26 pm

yes, those were all taken without a flash. Yes, the 1400x1050 15" SXGA+ FlexView panel in the flikr pictures was made by LG. currently, LG is the single supplier of that panel.

I also edited my post and added the following link which has 3 pages of pictures, including some taken of the IDTech UXGA panel (LG only started supplying the 15" UXGA panels this year so I only saw one in person at a trade show)

http://home.att.net/~murphj/wsb/html/vi ... html-.html

hoya · #11 Post by **hoya** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm

I would also consider the MacBook Pro which is available with either a glossy or matte finish. the glossy coating makes the colors look better (not sure if I should say sharper, brighter, or what) to my eyes, but you should really visit an Apple store to see. personally, I am quite content with the Hydis 14.1" SXGA+ panel on my T60, but I do mainly text work.

f1reverb · #12 Post by **f1reverb** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:00 pm

You might want to consider the 14.1" T43 IPS at the Lenovo outlet store . . .

http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... d=10000001

hoya · #13 Post by **hoya** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:14 pm

f1reverb wrote:You might want to consider the 14.1" T43 IPS at the Lenovo outlet store . . .

that's a typo on Lenovo's site which you can verify by checking the tabook... the same issue came up several months ago and it was discovered that there is currently no 14.1" SXGA+ IPS panel made by any manufacturer, let alone TMD, Hydis or Samsung which are Lenovo's 3 current 14.1" SXGA+ suppliers (ydis is going through bankruptcy, leaving TMD and Samsung).

perry_78 · #14 Post by **perry_78** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:22 pm

Sorry for the subjective and rather bland statements there

Ffor one, my TMD screen has terrible viewing angles. Second, it has light leakage at the bottom of the panel and at the top corners, which results in black not black, and the overal contrast being a bit dodgy.

So whatever the calibration, you will have parts of the screen showing the same colour in a mildly different tone. The bad viewing angles mean a litle shift of the screen can have incredible affects on matters

By "pro" screens, I'd regard the new CG series from Eizo (or any other high end model designed for that), the LaCie monitors, and heck, even Apple makes decent screens. I've only had the pleasure of using the Apple and Eizo screens, but to be frank, those are way out of league for the TMD 14". You could be lucky and get a Samsung that doesnt display a pinkisih hue (some Apple Cinema display batches were affected by a similair problem), but nevertheless, I dare say you are better off with a Macbook Pro (new model theoretically being announced tomorrow) if you need a good screen. I was blown away by it in one of the apple stores

Hopefully this is a decent elaboration on matters

*edit, was Hydis not merged with BOE by Hyundai?

Mr. The Guy · #15 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:24 am

hoya wrote:I would also consider the MacBook Pro which is available with either a glossy or matte finish. the glossy coating makes the colors look better.

I don't want glossy, I don't like the reflections. Apple doesn't have a trackpoint or a Core 2 Duo (yet). I loved my G3, but this now... Anything else I would have to say about Apple would probably be considered flame bait javascript:emoticon(':twisted:').

Mr. The Guy · #16 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:49 am

perry_78 wrote:Sorry for the subjective and rather bland statements there Ffor one, my TMD screen has terrible viewing angles. Second, it has light leakage at the bottom of the panel and at the top corners, which results in black not black, and the overal contrast being a bit dodgy. So whatever the calibration, you will have parts of the screen showing the same colour in a mildly different tone. The bad viewing angles mean a litle shift of the screen can have incredible affects on matters

On the basis of the photos referenced on the link above, I see that and it's unacceptable.

perry_78 wrote:Macbook Pro (new model theoretically being announced tomorrow) if you need a good screen. I was blown away by it in one of the apple stores
*edit, was Hydis not merged with BOE by Hyundai?

It's six of one..., etc. I loved my G3 8-9? years ago, but want a trackpoint and a computer built like a brick ****house. I also want an UltraBay for an extra battery. I'm just gonna have to find a reseller where I can see a Macbook Pro vs. a FlexView 15.4 1400x1050. If a T60 comes close, with all other factors considered, I would just prefer a non-Mac. Being a linux user, I see more of a future with a ThinkPad. I've never primarily used Windows (started with a Mac Plus, System 6.03).
I have a great CRT but it's too heavy too carry!

christopher_wolf · #17 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:57 am

Do I fondly remember the days of my G3 Powerbook Pismo. Really great machine it was too. Really on par with the the Thinkpads of the time too.

I have seen, at the TSW, a T60 side by side with a MacBook Pro and, quite frankly, the screens look pretty close to each other. I played around on each by browsing alot so I could see any differences. Nothing that I could catch, but maybe there are more out there that are pickier. Recommend, however, are the TrackPoint, ability to swap your optical drive, and overall robustness with the Thinkpads.

Mr. The Guy · #18 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:27 am

hoya wrote:I also edited my post and added the following link which has 3 pages of pictures, including some taken of the IDTech UXGA panel

Thanks for all the work. The LG looks different, but I assume you didn't use a hardware colour calibration puck.
I'm going to have to find somewhere with an LG FlexView display so I can bring in a CD-R with a photo I have taken and sharpened of a scene I am very familiar with... At this point it seems as though it will be acceptable while a TM would not be.

hoya · #19 Post by **hoya** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:40 am

Mr. The Guy wrote: I'm going to have to find somewhere with an LG FlexView display so I can bring in a CD-R with a photo I have taken and sharpened of a scene I am very familiar with... At this point it seems as though it will be acceptable while a TM would not be.

RCS computer experience on Madison in NYC usually has several thinkpads on display. I really with Lenovo would open some retail stores similar to Apple's concept.

perry_78 · #20 Post by **perry_78** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:04 am

Lenovo does have such stores, in Czech Republic at least.

stef-n · #21 Post by **stef-n** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:50 am

Hello, this is my first post on this forum, which I'm sure will provide me with lots of useful information in the future.

I am (among other things) a freelance photographer and need a laptop both for a little image processing in the field and also for some word-processing, surfing, etc at home.

Anyway, I was deciding between the MacBook Pro 15" and the Lenovo T60 (15" 1400x1050) and finally, after a long time of pondering I have now ordered the Lenovo. After reading this poll I'm kind of wondering why just one person have picked the 15" 1400x1050 screen? Sure, I understand that the 1600x1200 is nicer in terms of resolution, but is there any difference between them when it comes to viewing angles, colors, etc? The price difference is just too much for me, so the 1600x1200 hasn't been an option at all.

Of, course, I'd probable have preferred a 14" FlexView for portability, but since there is no such screen... oh well.

Also it doesn't seem like the weight difference and size is really THAT huge, right? I'd have preferred to see all options in real life, but when you're living in the north of Sweden all you can do is read reviews on the net, because nothing is ever in stock.

Mr. The Guy · #22 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:39 pm

stef-n wrote:Anyway, I was deciding between the MacBook Pro 15" and the Lenovo T60 (15" 1400x1050) and finally, after a long time of pondering I have now ordered the Lenovo. After reading this poll I'm kind of wondering why just one person have picked the 15" 1400x1050 screen? Sure, I understand that the 1600x1200 is nicer in terms of resolution, but is there any difference between them when it comes to viewing angles, colors, etc? The price difference is just too much for me, so the 1600x1200 hasn't been an option at all.

Hello, I started this thread and it's good to see someone else with my predicament. I am starting to seriously consider the "Z" series because of the greater variety of screens resolutions. I think the 15" 1400x1050 screen would have the same problems as the 14's referred to above in comments and in the linked photos.
I agree the price difference to get a FlexView is too rich...
I can't find a reseller with the displays to compare either... I live in a city of over a million people and could only find the non-Thinkpad Lenovos on display so don't blame your location. The problem was then is that they have so much security around them, and the lighting is so bad, you can't really evaluate them properly. Today I am going to phone every single business reseller listed on the Lenovo Canada site and maybe I'll get lucky.

perry_78 · #23 Post by **perry_78** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:57 pm

Hmm, I also happen to be experiencing the shadow issue in the corners of my laptop. Lets see what Lenovo says to this.

stef-n · #24 Post by **stef-n** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:36 pm

Mr. The Guy wrote:Hello, I started this thread and it's good to see someone else with my predicament. I am starting to seriously consider the "Z" series because of the greater variety of screens resolutions. I think the 15" 1400x1050 screen would have the same problems as the 14's referred to above in comments and in the linked photos.
I agree the price difference to get a FlexView is too rich...
I can't find a reseller with the displays to compare either... I live in a city of over a million people and could only find the non-Thinkpad Lenovos on display so don't blame your location. The problem was then is that they have so much security around them, and the lighting is so bad, you can't really evaluate them properly. Today I am going to phone every single business reseller listed on the Lenovo Canada site and maybe I'll get lucky.

OK, then maybe it isn't my location that is the problem after all.

But the 15" screen I've ordered IS a FlexView, and there's also "IPS" in the description, so I sure hope that it's a good screen even though the resolution is a little less. Considering that I'm still running 1280x1024 on my desktop screen (19") I think I'll be OK.

Mr. The Guy · #25 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:30 pm

stef-n wrote:I've ordered IS a FlexView, and there's also "IPS" in the description, so I sure hope that it's a good screen even though the resolution is a little less. Considering that I'm still running 1280x1024 on my desktop screen (19") I think I'll be OK.

Please report back after you get it... I had no luck phoning over 20 places today. No one has ThinkPads on display, except at their head offices in Toronto which is 2,000 miles away.

bpetterson · #26 Post by **bpetterson** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:16 pm

I have a series of four photo files which I use for viewing to adjust the tilt of a non flexview machine or to tell me that my flexview or non-flexview machine needs recalibration.

This is only based upon eyesight,but does give some info.

Birger

Mr. The Guy · #27 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:50 pm

bpetterson wrote:my flexview or non-flexview machine needs recalibration.

If you have both, how does the colour compare if they're both 'calibrated' using your picture method? Do you have the 1400x1050 non-FlexView?

#28 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:32 pm

Mr. The Guy wrote: It's six of one..., etc. I loved my G3 8-9? years ago, but want a trackpoint and a computer built like a brick ****house. I also want an UltraBay for an extra battery. I'm just gonna have to find a reseller where I can see a Macbook Pro vs. a FlexView 15.4 1400x1050. If a T60 comes close, with all other factors considered, I would just prefer a non-Mac. Being a linux user, I see more of a future with a ThinkPad. I've never primarily used Windows (started with a Mac Plus, System 6.03).
I have a great CRT but it's too heavy too carry!

If you decide on the Flexview, note that it looks like they are limited to the older Pentium M-based T60 models (like 2668 K9U) -- I didn't see any on Lenovo Canada with Core Duo, let alone Core 2 Duo. In either case, be sure to check the pricing through visaperks.ca; the above Flexview model, for example, is listed at C$2294 through visaperks.

bpetterson · #29 Post by **bpetterson** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:46 pm

Mr. The Guy wrote:
bpetterson wrote:my flexview or non-flexview machine needs recalibration.
If you have both, how does the colour compare if they're both 'calibrated' using your picture method? Do you have the 1400x1050 non-FlexView?

I print an 8x10 using an Epson 4800.
If any variation I recalibrait.

As to 1400x1050 non flex view
newest.
Will have to wait until my 2007 T7600 2007-8JU arrives
hopefully mid November.

Birger

Mr. The Guy · #30 Post by **Mr. The Guy** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:33 am

tomh009 wrote:check the pricing through visaperks.ca; the above Flexview model, for example, is listed at C$2294 through visaperks.

Thanks for that link. I've been primarily checking the US site where FlexView is available with the Core 2 Duo. My sister lives in the US, and I do alot of business there, so I'll buy wherever the price is best. I find the Canadian site unwieldy vs. the US one. They seem to be down alot too. For awhile there was a totally different site, but it disappeared after a couple of hours, so I guess a new site is in the works, probably with the new CPUs. I've decided to wait to see if there's any new incentives after Halloween as the bigger HD, DVD-R and 9-cell battery in the US are not the best incentives for me. Is there a Cdn. equivalent to the US tabook.pdf?

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