770ED with WinXP?, plus questions about PII 400 upgrade

[dave]

I just upgraded my old 770ED hard drive to a 80 GB 7200 RPM Hitachi Travelstar Model HTS721080G9AT00 (7K100), and in the process of doing this I discovered that according to Lenove the 770ED is capable of being upgraded to WinXP, so I am thinking of doing this.

I am wondering if anyone else has tried it?

I have been running Windows 2000 on it since I got it.... as I recall I think I took Windows 98 off the day it was delivered, and that has always worked good for me, but it seems Microsoft is getting ready to phase out Windows 2000.... IE7 won't even run on it.

Regards,

Dave

[cmarti]

I discovered that according to Lenove the 770ED is capable of being upgraded to WinXP, so I am thinking of doing this.
Regards,

Dave

If it runs win 2000 it will too with xp, just make sure to have at least 256mb of ram in your machine.

A 7K1000 in your 770ED, you will notice a big improvement in performance.

[dave]

Yes I have noticed a significant increase in performance with the 7K100... and I do have max (at least according to IBM... I now see some people here have been experimenting with other memory configurations, but I have two IBM 128 MB sticks and what is on the motherboard ... I would have thought that would be 32 so it should report 288 MB on boot, but I think it says 296 if I am not mistaken. I'll check next time I turn it off.

Well that is another thing... I rarely turned it off before because it took forever to boot lately so I just left it running all the time, but now since I put in the 7K100 it gets to the desktop right away like a new machine.

Of course the minimum system requirements for W2K are only a 133 Mhz processor and the minimum system requirements for WinXP are a 233 Mhz processor, so even though I know that the machine is capable of running WinXP (because Lenovo says it is and provides drivers for it), I am concerned about what kind of performance it might have, which is why I am wondering if anyone else has actually done it.

Granted the 7K100 upgrade may make this machine more capable or running XP acceptably than a "regular" 770ED

[cmarti]

What is you machine type number?

[dave]

What is you machine type number?

Type: 9549
Model: 5AU

[dave]

Well since apparently nobody else had tried it, I just went ahead and stuck in a blank Travelstar HTS721080G9AT00 80 GB 7200 RPM drive and installed WinXP, and it works fine and actually to the contrary of being really slow, the machine seems to be faster than it was with W2K!

I'll put a more detailed explanation after I get everything configured, but the two problems/questions I have experienced perhaps someone knows the answers to....

1. I can't seem to find a driver for the option they refer to in the manual as the "DVD and Enhanced Video Adapter". It is a hardware device that sits below the battery on the front left side and has Video In, Video Out, and Dolby Digital Out jacks right under the battery. I believe this is what is causing the yellow question mark labelled "MultiMedia Controller" under "Other Devices" yellow question mark in Device Manager. I know that wen I put W2K on this machine I found something because it didn't have any unknown devices with yellow question marks when I got done installing W2K.

2. I wonder if there is a solution to be able to use the external Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer and get the scroll wheel and forward and back buttons on the side of the mouse to work?

Maybe install it as a USB Mouse instead of plugging it into the PS/2 Port (since the Trackpoint seems to think it is plugged into the PS/2 port).

I remember before I either read to not install the Microsoft mouse software or I tried it and made a mess... some conflict with the Trackpoint software and the Microsoft mouse regular software maybe? I installed the Trackpoint driver Version 3.55, and both it and the external mouse work fine except no scroll wheel function or the left side buttons for page ahead or page back with the external mouse.

The only two explanations I can think of why/how WinXP can be faster than W2K on this machine was are:

First that the 40 GB 5400 RPM Travelstar DJSA-232 that I had been using in it for the past five years is supposed to have a firmware upgrade which I didn't know about and never did, or

Second that I have been using that Win2K installation for probably at least 5 years and probably has built up a lot of junk in the registry in spite of my attempt to keep it cleaned out and optimized.

Still I had copied that 5400 RPM drive's contents to the new Travelstar 7200 RPM drive last week and it seemed a lot faster and better running than before, but now that I have done a clean install of XP on another identical 80 GB Travelstar, I perceive XP to be faster than W2K was on this machine .... maybe just because it is a clean installation, but certainly WinXP is OK on this machine!

Maybe this machine has a couple of more years of life in it after all!!

[cmarti]

1. I can't seem to find a driver for the option they refer to in the manual as the "DVD and Enhanced Video Adapter".

Here is the driver

2. I wonder if there is a solution to be able to use the external Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer and get the scroll wheel and forward and back buttons on the side of the mouse to work?

I never have use it.

The only two explanations I can think of why/how WinXP can be faster than W2K on this machine was are:

First that the 40 GB 5400 RPM Travelstar DJSA-232 that I had been using in it for the past five years is supposed to have a firmware upgrade which I didn't know about and never did, or

Second that I have been using that Win2K installation for probably at least 5 years and probably has built up a lot of junk in the registry in spite of my attempt to keep it cleaned out and optimized.

Still I had copied that 5400 RPM drive's contents to the new Travelstar 7200 RPM drive last week and it seemed a lot faster and better running than before, but now that I have done a clean install of XP on another identical 80 GB Travelstar, I perceive XP to be faster than W2K was on this machine .... maybe just because it is a clean installation, but certainly WinXP is OK on this machine!

Yes i believe that over the years the os accumulates stuff that slow down the system i believe that reinstalling the os every two years will keep the system fast.

Maybe this machine has a couple of more years of life in it after all!!

I bet it will!

[dave]

Thank you very much cmarti for that info. Actually I had seen that, and not that I read the "ReadMe" file that goes with again more thorougly, I think that must be what I used before with Windows 2000.

But... the reason I discounted this driver initially during this installation is that is says in the ReadMe:

[quote]NOTE: This drivers should only be used if you are using Mediamatics DVDExpress application to play DVD movies. If you are using the SoftDVD application to play DVD movies, DO NOT install this drivers.

Well I really am not using anything to play DVD Movies... but the machine came with Mediamatics DVDExpress (back in the Windows 95 days when the machine came out) so I guess it should be OK to install that hardware driver even if I am using no DVD application at all. Actually I got a copy of a Standalone DVDExpress program around somewhere that MediaMatics engineers custom made for me (off the books so that I could do a clean install on my son's 1472i which I had upgraded to W2K as a clean install as soon as I got it and IBM insisted that you had to install Win98 first and upgrade it).

I could probably install that version of DVDExpress and that would work, but I have little interest in watching DVD movies on this machine anyway.

My real concern is that I find the Yellow Question Marks obnoxious and would like to get rid of that. I don't think I ever used that DVD and Enhanced Video Adapter at all anyway.

So I guess my real concern should only be that this is a Windows 2000 driver and not a WinXP Driver, but then lots of the drivers are good for all the way up from Win98 to WinXP, like the Trackpoint driver.

Even this readme is mumbo-jumbo. It says:

[quote]Installation Guide on Windows 2000
----------------------------------
Note:
- Use this driver only for the ThinkPad 770,770E,770ED,770X,770Z.

1. Make sure that your system has the DVD and Enhanced Video Adapter installed in the system.
2. Start Windows 98.

Right.... you are going to start Windows 98 to install this driver on your Windows 2000 system!

So all that considered, would your assessment as a Technical Manager be that this driver will probably do no harm (even though it probably will serve no function) and will get rid of the Yellow Question Mark for "MultiMedia Controller", and that if it's installation does cause some undesirable behaviour I will be able to get rid of it by some realatively simple procedure like "Uninstall"ing it from Device Manager?

I've just about convinced myself to install it in writing all this out

[cmarti]

Dave,

I am using that driver in my 770Z with xp pro for playing dvd's i use WMP-11 seems to work ok with the DEVA card.

Of course they are different machines but i only can speak of my experience with the 770Z.

[dave]

Thanks cmarti! Would that be Carlos?

I installed it and it works at least as far as getting rid of the Yellow Question Mark

Device Manager claims it is "working normally" and sees it as two devices:

IBM DVD Decoder Card
IBMVCAP, WDM Video Capture

So maybe it actually will function to play DVD's!

Of course your 770Z with it's 366 Mhz processor is much faster than my 266 Mhz processor. but still my machine played DVD's OK before when I had Mediamatics DVD player on there, so maybe it will still work )) I'll try it when I get a chance and let you know

Maybe I don't exactly understand the function of this device... when I was reading about it just now it mentioned in the product description that it "Allows customers to view MPEG-2 video and encrypted DVD movies." All are DVD Movies encrypted? Does this device then enable us to play DVD's on our slow(er) machines as opposed to faster machines that have only DVD Software by taking some of the load off the software application with this device?

I remember when I got my son's 1472i it had Mediamatics DVD player on it, and it has a 366 processor (as I recall) but I think my machine with it's 266 Mhz processor played DVD's better than his machine did, if memory serves me correctly.

When I read the description of it earlier and noticed that the output jacks are Video In, Video Out, and Dolby Digital Out I thought it was just some kind of Video Capture device that I would be unlikely to ever use, but now with what you just said and the fact that it appear in Device Manager as both a "IBMVCAP, WDM Video Capture" device and a "IBM DVD Decoder" device I guess it is used in DVD playback as well as Video Capture?

[cmarti]

Thanks cmarti! Would that be Carlos?

Yes it is Carlos.

I installed it and it works at least as far as getting rid of the Yellow Question Mark

So it is working

IBM DVD Decoder Card
IBMVCAP, WDM Video Capture

The same as in my 770Z

So maybe it actually will function to play DVD's!

Download Windows media 11 and find out.

Of course your 770Z with it's 366 Mhz processor is much faster than my 266 Mhz processor.

Correction my machine has a PIII 800mhz processor.

Maybe I don't exactly understand the function of this device... when I was reading about it just now it mentioned in the product description that it "Allows customers to view MPEG-2 video and encrypted DVD movies." All are DVD Movies encrypted? Does this device then enable us to play DVD's on our slow(er) machines as opposed to faster machines that have only DVD Software by taking some of the load off the software application with this device?

Go to a web site like you tube an try to view any file to see if it works.

I remember when I got my son's 1472i it had Mediamatics DVD player on it, and it has a 366 processor (as I recall) but I think my machine with it's 266 Mhz processor played DVD's better than his machine did, if memory serves me correctly.

Is my believe that my machine should have at least 512mb of ram. Of course that is not the law.

When I read the description of it earlier and noticed that the output jacks are Video In, Video Out, and Dolby Digital Out I thought it was just some kind of Video Capture device that I would be unlikely to ever use, but now with what you just said and the fact that it appear in Device Manager as both a "IBMVCAP, WDM Video Capture" device and a "IBM DVD Decoder" device I guess it is used in DVD playback as well as Video Capture?

If i remove my DEVA card the dvd playback goes capuff!

[dave]

If anyone else is contemplating doing this, here are my notes to myself about the small troubles I had installing WinXP on the 770ED. The conclusion is that it works good, and I will be retaining it this way and not reverting to Windows 2000 because XP runs better and just as fast as W2K did on this machine.

The only real problem I had with this clean install was that I failed to remove the USB Memory Key from my Multifunction HUB and the Windows Installation assigned that the drive letter C so I had to do that whole installation over again as described below, but that is not the hardware's fault buy my own fault.

Lenovo has a nice website here. [Moderator edit: long URL reformatted as text link to prevent horizontal scrolling]

Which actually worked to "Detect Your System" and told me it detected this:

Product: ThinkPad 770E/ED 9549-5AU [change]
Operating system: Windows XP [change]

Original description: 770ED PII 266MHz (512KB) 64MB RAM 8.1GB 14.1 XGA TFT DVD 56K(ACP) DEVA Win95

Which is totally correct, and then it displayed all the drivers for the WinXP installation.

There were a few things I think are noteworthy.

1. Windows XP installation supplement files - ThinkPad General

This package calls for using a file IMTPLCD for Color Management on the built in LCD Display included in this package, which has a file date of 10/14/1999, and apparently installs Driver Version 1.20, while if you look under the "Monitor" updates section there is the same file IMTPLCD with a date of 07/05/2004 which updates the LCD Driver to version 2.00.

Best to use the later driver, and that is what I did.

Also the other part of the supplemental files is to install some "CStateFlags.reg" registry patch, which also is like five years old before XP was even invented, so I wouldn't use that either. The only section of it that *might* apply to this machine is the part:
=========================
RMREG.EXE

RMREG.EXE is supported on the following ThinkPad systems upgrading from Windows NT 4.0:

ThinkPad 770E/ED

Confirm the ThinkPad utility does not install correctly.
Uninstall any previous versions of ThinkPad Utility.
Run RMREG.EXE.
Install the new ThinkPad Utility..
==========================

I am NOT upgradeing from NT 4.0 and I did NOT have any problem installing the ThinkPad Utility, so this doesn't apply either.

Bottom line is I wouldn't use these "Windows XP Supplemantal Files" at all, since I think they would damage your installation rather than help it.

2. Battery Maximizer and Power Power Management features for Windows

This update says it is Version 1.38 released 4/22/2005 but it is totally unclear to me after reading this and associated webpages for the ThinkPad Configuration Utility whether this package would enhance or actually roll back the power features contained in the recently released ThinkPad Configuration Utility Power Management functions.

The ThinkPad Configuration Utilty Version 1.54 was released October 2006 and appears to duplicate the same power features except possibly the "Fuel Guage" application. I think it is unlikely that installing a year and a half old sub-application would enhance the operation of the recently released ThinkPad Configuration Utility, PLUS in this Summary below in the ReadMe for the Battery Maximizer and Power Management Features Package it says:

Summary of supported programs, machines, and operating systems is as follows:
- ThinkPad Power Property
Supported on all machines
Not supported on Windows NT 4.0
- Battery MaxiMiser program
Not supported on ThinkPad 5xx/6xx/7xx/i-1157
Not supported on Windows 95/NT 4.0
- Battery Information program
Not supported on ThinkPad 5xx/6xx/7xx/i-1157
Supported on all operating systems
- Fuel-Gauge program
Supported only on ThinkPad 5xx/6xx/7xx/i-1157
Not supported on Windows 98/98 SE/Me/2000/XP ACPI system

I take that to mean that while the ThinkPad Power Property would be supported, it is likely not an improvement to what was released later within the Configuration Utility.

The other feature of this package are not supported anyway on the 770ED except for possibly the Fuel-Guage Program and even that says it is not supported on an ACPI system, which is what I have according to Device Manager my 770ED is a:

"Advanced Configuration Power Interface (ACPI) PC"

So it sounds like to me that the Fuel Guage would only work if you
still had Windows 95 on the machine!

Bottom line unless somebody else has some information to contradict what I think is the case here, I think it is a bad idea to install this "Battery Maximizer and Power Management" update.

3. The MultiPort USB Hub. I have one of these and the driver installation works fine and does what it is supposed to do. However I should mention the one big GOTCHA that this device caused for me that I had not thought about beforehand. If you have one of these things, be sure to disconnect it before you do the Windows XP clean install.. or maybe not so much disconnect it but remove any USB Memory Keys you have in it!!! I didn't and what happened was when the Windows installation started, it saw my 32 MB Memory Key as a hard drive and wanted to install Windows on it rather than the blank 80 GB hard drive. Of course I selected to not do that, and to install Windows instead on the "Unallocated Space" on the new hard drive. Only much later did I realize that by doing that, Windows assigned Drive Letter C to the IBM Memory Key, and the letter D to the Windows boot partition on the new hard drive.

Drive Management will not allow you to change the drive letter of the boot drive. So the only solution... well there might be other ones but the most straightforward one which I chose although it took many hours of extra time... was to remove the memory key from the USB Hub reformat the hard drive and start all over again to install Windows.... cost me many hours.

4. The Personalization.... I have never figured out what that is supposed to do... has anybody ever used that who could shed some light on what this does? Not knowing and not having used it before, I didn't install this update.

5. ThinkPad 770 DVD Enhanced Video Adapter
To make a long story short, I used the Windows 2000 driver from six years ago which is meant to use with Mediamatics DVDExpress which came with the machine but I don't have installed, and I believe it's only function is to make the yellow question mark labelled "Multimedia Controller" go away in Device Manager. Windows now claims it is "Working Properly" but I don't think it really does anything other than add some bogus registry entries that make the yellow question mark go away.

For anyone who might be interested, a more lengthy version of my thoughts on this adapter and the facts I discovered about it after "cmarti" in this forum pointed me in the right direction.

ThinkPad 770 DVD Enhanced Video Adapter (11J8957) - Overview

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... SHY-44JTHH

General information
ThinkPad 770 Enhanced Video Adapter incorporates Video Input/Output, MPEG-2, and de-encryption for DVD Movies. This Enhanced Video Adapter is well suited for ThinkPad system users with increasing requirements for emerging technologies, new applications, multimedia, and viewing encrypted movies. Features include:

Enables playback of movies and MPEG-2 video applications
Allows customers to view MPEG-2 video and encrypted DVD movies.

The DVD Enhanced Video Adapter provides connectors for:
An audio jack for Dolby sound (provides for the connection of an external amplifier and external stereo speakers)
Video in connector and video out connector
Warranty: 3 year Limited customer carry-in exchange

Packaging

Card
Video in/out cable
Asymetrix digital producer CD package
Publications
Marketing and FRU Part Numbers
Worldwide
Marketing part number: 11J8957
FRU part number: 11J9008

Windows 2000 Drivers for this device:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... SHY-46FRPA

This package installs the driver for the DVD and Enhanced Video Adapter in the 770ED ThinkPad.... the item below the battery which has Video In. Video Out, and Dolby Digital Audio out receptacles.

It also functions to get rid of the Yellow Question Mark under Device Manager for an unknown device in WinXP... whether the device actually does anything or not remains to be determined.

More IBM mumbo jumbo... the title of the web page is:

MPEG driver IV for Windows 98/2000 - ThinkPad 770

but then below it calls it English - version 1.03 - MPEG Features III for Windows 98/2000 [PFTW]... not MPEG IV like the title of the page.

Then the mumbo jumbo goes on from there...

Summary of Changes:
[...]
Version 1.03
- (New) Support Windows 2000.

When you install it however, Device Manager says it is Version 1.0.14.0!

Anyway, it makes the Yellow Question Mark go away, and not device manager claims it is "working normally" and sees it as two devices:

IBM DVD Decoder Card
IBMVCAP, WDM Video Capture

Part of the Readme for this package says:
==========================
Note:
To use the hardware AC3 option (S/PDIF) on Windows 2000, it is necessary
to access the system registry.

1. From the command shell or run window, execute regedit.
2. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\IBM\IBMDVD
3. Under Edit, New, String Value add "HWAC3".
4. Double click on HWAC3 and in the value data field enter a "1" (DO NOT
INCLUDE THE QUOTE MARKS).
5. When DVDPlay is executed, the hardware AC3 decoder is now active.

To reenable software AC3, MPEG2 and LPCM you can change the HWAC3 value to "0", or delete the HWAC3 value name.
==========================
So since I will have no "IBM" software installed in this path because I am not going to install the Mediamatics DVD Player, I think doing this would be meaningless, and either way whether this setting is "0" or "1" I don't think it is going to do anything.

When you download this package and run the exe file, it extracts the files to:

C:\DRIVERS\W9X\MPEG

Just right click the Yellow Question mark labelled "Multimedia Controller" choose to update driver, and that is all there is to it.

Other than those five items, everything went real smooth. I just installed Windows XP, downloaded and installed the drivers from Lenovo and have a machine now that runs XP better than W2K has been running for the last couple of years.

[cmarti]

Dave,

Did you read my last post? You just post 15 secs before me

[dave]

Carlos,

Did you read my last post? You just post 15 secs before me

No I hadn't read your last post yet. Had I read that I could have saved a lot of time trying to figure this out! So if your DVD playing goes kaput when you remove the DVD Enhanced Video Adapter, then it must be necessary for DVD Playback

I just tried it with WMP-9 that came with XP and I had a
"V for Vendetta" DVD around here I just bought and I stuck that in and it played fine! If you put it in full screen mode and then move the mouse it has a stutter in it while the screen changes to the windowed mode from the full screen mode, but otherwise it plays fine... not pauses in the action, and it looked as good as on a TV!

I guess I'll upgrade to WMP-11 like you have if I can find where it says if the resources required are no more than WMP9 since it does work OK with WMP-9.

Correction my machine has a PIII 800mhz processor.

WOW! How did you do that! I was thinking about upgrading the processor in mine a few year ago, but I couldn't find any information at the time that indicated that this was possible. I wonder if what you did would work on my 770ED, since they are in the same family of machines? Well if you can even get Pentium III processors anymore

Is my believe that my machine should have at least 512mb of ram. Of course that is not the law.

More RAM is always better. I have always maxed out whatever machine I have with as much RAM as they can accomodate. As far as I have believed, my 770ED can only accept two 128 MB memory modules which is what I have in it. The specs say the max is 288 but I know when it posts it says 294 or something like that for some reason. Have you found a way around that limitation, or was the 770Z designed to take more?

I am frankly amazed that this thing can play DVD Movies OK like it does.

Before I had a Aptiva Desktop with which I upgraded to a Pentium II 333 Mhz processor and whatever the max ram it could take... I think 300 something, and it had a STB Hardware Decoder Card I think it was called, and later IBM never produced any upgraded drivers past the Windows 95 or 98 ones, which wouldn't work with Windows 2000, so eventually I bought a "Hollywood something" Hardware Decoder card... I forget the name, but that machine never would play DVD's good enough for me... always jerky... there was one ATI driver that sort of worked for awhile and then when they upgraded the video driver it never worked right again.

This ThinkPad today with it's 266 Processor plays DVD's OK with that add in hardware device! I am really amazed!!

Thanks a lot for pointing out that driver and explaining it's use Carlos!

[dave]

I discovered as this progresses, that if I installed the Accessibility Package for the Trackpoint.... which I wasn't going to do because I didn't plan to use any of those features.... but I decided to install the package just to see what it did, and now even though I didn't enable any of those options the scroll wheel started working on my external Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer, and the buttons on the side the take you to the last web page visited and the next page also funtion. This has never worked before so this makes me happy that it can work after all!

Then I installed IE7 and WMP-11 and I thought I had done something bad at first because now the WMP-11 woudn't play DVD movies properly. There is like a double vision area on the left of the picture. So I uninstalled WMP-11 and the rollback went back to WMP-9 almost like Microsoft said it would. Their directions say there are three separate packages you have to uninstall in Add/Remove programs to roll it back. Each time you have to reboot before uninstalling the next package.

The first bad part is that if somebody didn't look up the directions how to uninstall it, after you install the first component Windows said it has successfully rolled back so somebody who didn't read the directions on the FAQ's on the WMP-11 support website would probably stop there having uninstalled only the first component.

The second bad part is that there is a warning message when you install the second or third component that since you are un-installing this there is a Hotfix KB926239 that might not work properly and also the Microsoft Compression Client Pack 1.0 for Windows XP might not function properly. So I uninstalled both those componets as well since they might not function properly.

After all that it turned out that now even back in Media Player 9 the DVD's still played with that double vision effect on the left side of the screen. Then something told me to try lowering the resolution to 800 X 600 and that worked.

It played OK at 800 X 600... so then I reinstalled WMP-11 and it still plays OK at 800 X 600 but not a 1024 X 768. At that resolution it has that double vision effect on the left side of the screen. Now I kind of remember that I think that I always had to lower the resolution like that to play DVD movies with Windows 2000 and maybe even with Windows 98 also. I just had forgotten since it has been so long since I played DVD's on this machine!

Carlos is that normal, or only me? Do you have to lower your resolution when you play movies... of course even if you don't your machine is way fast now which might be why, but when you first got it and it was a 366 did it work that way?

<BTW> when you install the WMP-11 again, it automatically reinstalls the Microsoft Compression Client Pack 1.0 for Windows XP and the Hotfix KB926239.

[cmarti]

Carlos is that normal, or only me? Do you have to lower your resolution when you play movies... of course even if you don't your machine is way fast now which might be why, but when you first got it and it was a 366 did it work that way?

Dave,

No i didn't have to lower my resolution, in my case the lcd resolution is 1280 x 1024 what is important is that you have to set the color quality to 16 bit instead of 32 bit at 32 it may not work properly.

WOW! How did you do that! I was thinking about upgrading the processor in mine a few year ago, but I couldn't find any information at the time that indicated that this was possible. I wonder if what you did would work on my 770ED, since they are in the same family of machines? Well if you can even get Pentium III processors anymore

I elieve you machine uses a MMC-1 processor the highter you may go is 400mhz which would be a nice inprovement for you.

Here is one up to sale:

Very cheap!!

[dave]

Carlos,

No i didn't have to lower my resolution, in my case the lcd resolution is 1280 x 1024 what is important is that you have to set the color quality to 16 bit instead of 32 bit at 32 it may not work properly.

Thanks! I'll try that. I do have it at 32 bit.

I believe you machine uses a MMC-1 processor the highter you may go is 400mhz which would be a nice inprovement for you.

Here is one up to sale:

Thanks! I bid on it.... I hope is stays cheap that cheap by the time the bidding closes!

I think that probably would be a good step up. Anyway if that
is as high as I can go, that is the best I can make this machine so will have to be happy with that unless I am going to replace it.

[dave]

[quote="cmarti] I believe you machine uses a MMC-1 processor the highter you may go is 400mhz which would be a nice inprovement for you.

Here is one up to sale:

Very cheap!![/quote]

Hi Carlos,

I did win that processor on eBay, but I had to leave the country on a long trip and so didn't actually see it until this month when I came back. Thanks for the tip! I would never have found it if you hadn't pointed it out! The price was right... $ 30!

Now I am getting ready to install it, and since you have done this before I wonder if you have any tips you could share about the process. I did read all the stuff in the sticky upgrade topic this morning, and printed out what IBM said were the applicable parts of the Maintenance Manual.

But I am wondering ... since the Maintenance Manual addresses several models at once, and only in passing refers to the 770ED... if I really have to remove *all* the stuff it says, like the LCD even?

I think that elsewhere I read that the DC-DC card only applies to the 770X, so I guess I can ignore that part. In looking at the parts diagram it looks almost like you might really have to remove the release lever mechanisms for the UltraBay device and the Battery and Power Switch to get the "Upper Shield" out.

So on the 770ED will I have to remove all that stuff that is listed on the page 98 of the Maintenance Manual under "1170 CPU Card and Heat Sink"... aside from the "DC-DC Card (1150)"... which I think applies only to a 770X or Z?

I notice that the CPU card as I hold it here has a two section metal plate on the top of it which I guess is the heat sink. The left hand side of this metall plate has two sort of hollow posts which are threaded inside protruding up from the metal plate.

I notice in the upgrade thread someone had posted the following:

Modifications:
Heatsink/fan - removed the Intel heatsink & grease, replaced with ArcticSilver thermal grease. Removed thermal pad from between IBM Aluminum block heatsink and steel Intel heatsink, modified screw-holes on the IBM aluminum block to fit over the screw mount points on the Intel steel plate and to provide a flush-fit between the two. Placed ArcticSilver grease between them to improve thermal conductivity. Also placed ArcticSilver between fan/heatsink block mounting points. ]

This comment leads me to wonder if there needs to be a thermal pad present on the top of this metal plate I am looking at (which I am guessing is what the other poster is calling the "Intel steel plate") and the "IBM Aluminum Block Heatsink" which I am guessing is what touches or is supposed to touch this steel plate.

I can see an imprint of a round object that at one time pressed against the steel plate between the two internally threaded posts which might be (?) where the so-called "IBM Aluminum Block" is supposed to press against it.

What concerns me (never having taken this apart to actually see it yet) is that perhaps a thermal pad is supposed to fill up the space that would otherwise exist between the steel plate and whatever is attached to it because of the thickness of the raised posts into which the attachment screws will go (if the bottom of whatever is screwed onto these mounting posts is flat).

Certainly one could never fill up such a space with simply thermal paste! Perhaps there are recesses built into the "IBM Aluminum Block" which presumabley screws onto this?

When the original poster "cmeilahn" in the subject: "The official 770 Upgrade and general information Topic" said that he had:

"modified screw-holes on the IBM aluminum block to fit over the screw mount points on the Intel steel plate and to provide a flush-fit between the two." Perhaps he means that he drilled out the IBM Aluminum Block heat sink screw holes to accomodate these internally threaded posts so it would go down further and be flush with the metal plate with ouly thermal paste between the two items??

If I need a thermal pad, perhaps I could order one from Intel?

This person who did the above modifications was complaining about overheating of his CPU, while other posters with similar machines reported no such problems, so I don't think I want to follow his modifications

I don't know if that person is still around the board and active since that post was several years ago, but I know you are still active here and have had these models disassembled and actually seem what we are dealing with here, so any guidance you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,
Dave

[pkiff]

I changed the thread topic title to reflect the thread drift.

But I am wondering ... since the Maintenance Manual addresses several models at once, and only in passing refers to the 770ED... if I really have to remove *all* the stuff it says, like the LCD even?

The quick answer is yes.

I think that elsewhere I read that the DC-DC card only applies to the 770X, so I guess I can ignore that part.

I don't know where you saw this, but I would recommend following the instructions in the Maintenance Manual and yes that means removing the DC-DC card for any 770 series machine while you are on the way in to get the CPU.

In looking at the parts diagram it looks almost like you might really have to remove the release lever mechanisms for the UltraBay device and the Battery and Power Switch to get the "Upper Shield" out.

Again, yes.

So on the 770ED will I have to remove all that stuff that is listed on the page 98 of the Maintenance Manual under "1170 CPU Card and Heat Sink"

Yes. Including the "DC-DC Card (1150)"

This comment leads me to wonder if there needs to be a thermal pad present on the top of this metal plate I am looking at (which I am guessing is what the other poster is calling the "Intel steel plate") and the "IBM Aluminum Block Heatsink" which I am guessing is what touches or is supposed to touch this steel plate.

Yes, there does need to be something in there. I am not sure of the best recommendation for this, but what I've done on my 770E and my 770Z is simply use the same thermal pad that is already there -- it will normally come off with the fan unit and if you are using the same fan then you can simply put it back in again.

What concerns me (never having taken this apart to actually see it yet) is that perhaps a thermal pad is supposed to fill up the space that would otherwise exist between the steel plate and whatever is attached to it[...]

Yes. You need something in there, and that is why leaving the current thermal pad is the easy option.

Certainly one could never fill up such a space with simply thermal paste!

I think that some people have done precisely this, but I haven't tried it.

It can be quite a bit of work to get your 770ED taken apart enough to replace the CPU, but it is a large machine and that makes it easier to work with than some of the newer slimmer machines.

There are two spots that I think are tricky.

First, when you are removing the keyboard, you have to be careful not to damage the ribbons that are attached to the bottom of the keyboard. It's a bit complicated to explain, but I find that step awkward during both disassembly and reassembly.

Second, I find it tricky to get the darn UltraBay II levers back in and working correctly. I still don't have a surefire method to do this. I would recommend looking carefully at the levers and at the threading of the speaker wires before you take them out, and that might make it easier to put them back in correctly.

I have been trying to put together a streamlined online instruction set for replacing the CPU in the 770Z, but have only got about a third of it done so far. Nevertheless, it might help you with your 770E CPU replacement. Here is the INCOMPLETE DRAFT!! of the instructions so far:
Thinkpad 770Z CPU Upgrade Instructions

Congrats on getting a cheap PII 400 and best of luck slogging through the disassembly!

Phil.

[dave]

I changed the thread topic title to reflect the thread drift.

Thank you Phil. I had trouble finding the correct thread we had been using for this before.

But I am wondering ... since the Maintenance Manual addresses several models at once, and only in passing refers to the 770ED... if I really have to remove *all* the stuff it says, like the LCD even?

The quick answer is yes.

OK Thanks!

I think that elsewhere I read that the DC-DC card only applies to the 770X, so I guess I can ignore that part.

I don't know where you saw this, but I would recommend following the instructions in the Maintenance Manual and yes that means removing the DC-DC card for any 770 series machine while you are on the way in to get the CPU.

I saw this (I thought) on Page 22 of the Hardware Maintenance Manual. But what it really says now that I read it more carefully, is that you only have to restore DC - DC Card Serial Number when you replace the DC - DC Card on 600E and 770X machines.

So I better print out the DC- DC Card (1050) section as well.

In looking at the parts diagram it looks almost like you might really have to remove the release lever mechanisms for the UltraBay device and the Battery and Power Switch to get the "Upper Shield" out.

Again, yes.

Thanks for clarifying that!

So on the 770ED will I have to remove all that stuff that is listed on the page 98 of the Maintenance Manual under "1170 CPU Card and Heat Sink"

Yes. Including the "DC-DC Card (1150)"

This comment leads me to wonder if there needs to be a thermal pad present on the top of this metal plate I am looking at (which I am guessing is what the other poster is calling the "Intel steel plate") and the "IBM Aluminum Block Heatsink" which I am guessing is what touches or is supposed to touch this steel plate.

Yes, there does need to be something in there. I am not sure of the best recommendation for this, but what I've done on my 770E and my 770Z is simply use the same thermal pad that is already there -- it will normally come off with the fan unit and if you are using the same fan then you can simply put it back in again.

OK thanks! That was my major concern. If it breaks when it comes off, then can you just use a generic thermal pad from CompUSA or whatever (if they still carry those), or is it of a special thickness, such as thicker than a desktop thermal pad?

If it doesn't break, since it has been used would you recommend putting a small amount of thermal paste between the used thermal pad and the steel intel heatsink plate, or not?

I got Intel to send me a thermal pad once for a desktop processor, but I think that one was still within the three year warranty, and this unit is definately not so I don't know if they would send or even sell one for this unit. I was just slogging through the specs and figuring out what it is, and I notice they say that they do not support it anymore.

What concerns me (never having taken this apart to actually see it yet) is that perhaps a thermal pad is supposed to fill up the space that would otherwise exist between the steel plate and whatever is attached to it[...]

Yes. You need something in there, and that is why leaving the current thermal pad is the easy option.

Thanks... I hope that works out, but I would like to have anything on hand that I may need before I start... such as a spare pad, thermal grease, etc., since this is my only machine here... except in an emergency I might be able to borrow my son's desktop for a brief period

Certainly one could never fill up such a space with simply thermal paste!

I think that some people have done precisely this, but I haven't tried it.

I guess they could have, but from the way the Arctic Silver Ceramique had run around and oozed out of the sides of the processor on a desktop machine I had used it on after it ran for awhile, which I noticed when I removed the heat sink again to install a temperature sensor, it is hard to imagine that a big layer of it would actually remain in that location and serve it's intended purpose! And I only put a *little* more than the grain of rice size that they recommended, and to fill up a big gap like that you would have to use much more.

It can be quite a bit of work to get your 770E taken apart enough to replace the CPU, but it is a large machine and that makes it easier to work with than some of the newer slimmer machines.

There are two spots that I think are tricky.

First, when you are removing the keyboard, you have to be careful not to damage the ribbons that are attached to the bottom of the keyboard. It's a bit complicated to explain, but I find that step awkward during both disassembly and reassembly.

I agree! I am familiar with that operation, having changed the hard drive in my elder son's i1472 twice. The second time I did actually have to change the keyboard after I got done. I don't *think* I damaged the cables, but I might have... those cables are pretty delicate and you need more than two hands to do it as I recall. I'd like to think that the keyboard had failed before I replaced the hard drive.... it wouldn't boot when he sent it to me... but I am not sure.

Second, I find it tricky to get the darn UltraBay II levers back in and working correctly. I still don't have a surefire method to do this. I would recommend looking carefully at the levers and at the threading of the speaker wires before you take them out, and that might make it easier to put them back in correctly.

Thanks for the tip! I'll take special care in that area.

I have been trying to put together a streamlined online instruction set for replacing the CPU in the 770Z, but have only got about a third of it done so far. Nevertheless, it might help you with your 770E CPU replacement. Here is the INCOMPLETE DRAFT!! of the instructions so far:
Thinkpad 770Z CPU Upgrade Instructions

This is wonderful!! Thank you so much. This will make it much better and you partial instructions are worlds better than the Maintenance Manual!

Congrats on getting a cheap PII 400 and best of luck slogging through the disassembly!

Phil.

Three other questions come to mind... the first is will I always get that 192 error on boot with this machine after putting in the 400 Mhz processor that I have seen mentioned in various places in the forums and even in the unedited portions of your tutorial, where you have to press Esc and then F1 to boot, or is that only with certain machines/processor combinations?

Secondly, in another thread I saw mentioned that there is a problem with the motherboard recognizing the cache if your processor does *not* have the cache "on-die" and you have to run some software program "PowerLeap CPU Control Panel" each time you either boot the machine or come out of standby or hibernation to get the machine to recognize the cache.

I confirmed with the "Product Tracking Code" which I can read on the MMC-1 unit (PMF40002001AA) on the Intel site just now that this MMC-1 board does have "On-Die Cache".... the third character "F" means that according to the spec sheet.

So if I understand that situation correctly I should have no problem with the Cache being recognized on this particular unit and no need to use this software program?

Finally, this standby battery that they have you removing in Step 1100... is that something you should replace while you are in there? That would be the FRU 12J0428 for all models of 770?

Thanks again Phil for your very detailed and helpful tutorial, and any other insights you might be able to offer!

<BTW> does this forum site go down at certain hours.... I tried forever to post this last night, and kept getting the can't display this page message, and the same thing happened the night before with my last message. Nothing *seems* to have changed with my computer state or ability to connect to other sites at those times.... but I wonder if it is only my computer or connection to the internet, or if it is the site that is the cause of this.

[pkiff]

[...]can you just use a generic thermal pad from CompUSA or whatever (if they still carry those), or is it of a special thickness, such as thicker than a desktop thermal pad?

If it doesn't break, since it has been used would you recommend putting a small amount of thermal paste between the used thermal pad and the steel intel heatsink plate, or not?

I don't know about these things and I don't have a best practices recommendation. On my machines, I've just used the same thermal pad as was there originally and not added any paste, but I suspect there is a better practice than this.

Three other questions come to mind... the first is will I always get that 192 error on boot with this machine after putting in the 400 Mhz processor[...]

No, you should not have this issue when using a PII 400MHz on a 770ED. I would recommend going into your BIOS and using the "Initialize" function after installing the new CPU in order to reset the BIOS and make sure that your new CPU is recognized properly, but I've got a PII 400 in my 770E and there are no errors on boot. It should be a straight swap for that CPU and machine combo.

Secondly, in another thread I saw mentioned that there is a problem with the motherboard recognizing the cache if your processor does *not* have the cache "on-die" and you have to run some software program "PowerLeap CPU Control Panel" each time you either boot the machine or come out of standby or hibernation to get the machine to recognize the cache.

I'm not sure about this one with respect to a PII 400MHz. I recall something about a problem with Celerons and caches, but I don't remember the specificis. It sounds like everything should be good to go based on the info you've searched already. I don't recall any case where someone needed to use the Powerleap cache enabling program for a 770E/ED upgraded to PII 400, but if you found a discussion about this, then I can check it if you provide the link.

Finally, this standby battery that they have you removing in Step 1100... is that something you should replace while you are in there? That would be the FRU 12J0428 for all models of 770?

No. In addition to the standard, large battery, there is a standby battery and there is a CMOS battery in your 770ED.

The standby battery is a custom built affair that will cost a bit of money, so I wouldn't replace it if I didn't have to. I'm not sure what it is used for exactly, but I think it is used only in order to provide trickle power to your laptop while you are in the middle of swapping main batteries. Your main battery provides power during regular standby procedures. I have not yet had to replace the standby battery on any of my 770 machines.

The CMOS battery is a standard CR2025 coin battery and it can be replaced without opening the laptop: access to the CMOS battery is available through the bottom of the machine, using the same panel that you use to change memory modules. But since these batteries only cost a couple bucks, and I have a stack of them handy, I always replace the CMOS battery when I upgrade the CPU. That way I can be sure that any weird errors I get afterwards don't have anything to do with a weak/dying CMOS battery. The CMOS battery is needed to keep BIOS settings and clock settings accurate while your computer is turned off, and I have replaced the CMOS battery in all my 770 machines at least once.

<BTW> does this forum site go down at certain hours....

No, you just had bad luck -- the forum happened to have some connectivity problems that evening, but everything should be back to normal now.

Phil.

[dave]

[...]can you just use a generic thermal pad from CompUSA or whatever (if they still carry those), or is it of a special thickness, such as thicker than a desktop thermal pad?

If it doesn't break, since it has been used would you recommend putting a small amount of thermal paste between the used thermal pad and the steel intel heatsink plate, or not?

[I don't know about these things and I don't have a best practices recommendation. On my machines, I've just used the same thermal pad as was there originally and not added any paste, but I suspect there is a better practice than this.

Thanks... I'll study this subject some more. If you haven't had any problems doing it the way you did, I will probably just try it that way.... although just in case the pad *does* break, since this is my only machine here I'd better do the "just in case" research earlier rather than after it happens.

Three other questions come to mind... the first is will I always get that 192 error on boot with this machine after putting in the 400 Mhz processor[...]

No, you should not have this issue when using a PII 400MHz on a 770ED. I would recommend going into your BIOS and using the "Initialize" function after installing the new CPU in order to reset the BIOS and make sure that your new CPU is recognized properly, but I've got a PII 400 in my 770E and there are no errors on boot. It should be a straight swap for that CPU and machine combo.

Thanks! That's a big relief!!

Secondly, in another thread I saw mentioned that there is a problem with the motherboard recognizing the cache if your processor does *not* have the cache "on-die" and you have to run some software program "PowerLeap CPU Control Panel" each time you either boot the machine or come out of standby or hibernation to get the machine to recognize the cache.

I'm not sure about this one with respect to a PII 400MHz. I recall something about a problem with Celerons and caches, but I don't remember the specificis. It sounds like everything should be good to go based on the info you've searched already. I don't recall any case where someone needed to use the Powerleap cache enabling program for a 770E/ED upgraded to PII 400, but if you found a discussion about this, then I can check it if you provide the link.

Thanks for confirming that Phil. I think it sounds like it will be OK too based on what I have read... the discussion I read didn't specifically say it was a problem that presented itself after upgrading a 770ED to a PII 400, so it is probably some other model... and the sense I got out of the discussion was that if you had an on-die cache such as this processor I have does, then the problem shouldn't present itself. If I can find that thread again I'll edit this post later to point it out if you want to confirm that I am understanding it correctly.

Finally, this standby battery that they have you removing in Step 1100... is that something you should replace while you are in there? That would be the FRU 12J0428 for all models of 770?

No. In addition to the standard, large battery, there is a standby battery and there is a CMOS battery in your 770ED.

The standby battery is a custom built affair that will cost a bit of money, so I wouldn't replace it if I didn't have to. I'm not sure what it is used for exactly, but I think it is used only in order to provide trickle power to your laptop while you are in the middle of swapping main batteries. Your main battery provides power during regular standby procedures. I have not yet had to replace the standby battery on any of my 770 machines.

Actually while I wasn't able to post my reply to your last message for most of a day because seemingly of site problems, I decided to research how much it would cost in case you were going to recommend that I do replace it, and I discovered that Boulder Parts will sell it for "only" $ 20, and even you can buy the "Screwdriver Kit: 95F3598 for $ 36.00" which includes the "Torque Screwdriver 05K4695", the "5mm Socket Wrench 05K4694", and another "Screwdriver 27L8126".

The first time I took my son's i1472 apart I tried to find a torque screwdriver everywhere in tool stores and was unsuccessful... well there was one but it cost like $ 250 and was calibrated in different units than the torque chart in the ThinkPad Maintenance Manual, and even IBM ThinkPad Maintenance ... I don't remember how I ever got them on the phone since they have no direct number supposedly, but I did... said that they don't use a torque screwdriver to reassemble the machines, nor according to them is it *really* necessary to get new nyloc screws for the reassembly, so I didn't either torque the screws properly or replace the screws with new ones, and his notebook still functions just fine.

So now yesterday while I was looking through the Maintenance Manual again I ran across the tools parts list and tried to order the torque screwdriver by it's part number 05K4695, only to be told by Boulder that this is an invalid part number. However, after going back and forth between tech support and parts twice each, I was told that the part number 95F3598 for the screwdriver kit does include the torque screwdriver, and you just can't order it *separately*!

So I ordered these items, and to my amazement, this stuff appeared the next day. The StandBy Battery comes with some other weird sticky paper with four black round dots of some material that looks like hard plastic about 1/4" in size each that I guess are supposed to be stuck someplace, and this comes in an envelope stating it has a part number of P66G0017. Guess I will have to figure out what that is for

Oops... they lied. The Screwdriver kit that they charged me $ 36 for, which I just opened, is a Stanley 66-039 set of six little screwdrivers like the ones you can buy in Radio Shack consisting of one # 1 Phillips, one # 0 Phillips, one each straight screwdrivers in sizes 1.4 mm, 2.0 mm, 2.4 mm and 3.0 mm. Probably can get the same thing locally for $ 5. Well I should have not ordered this stuff so hastily I guess, but it would be nice if Lenovo would accurately tell you what you will be getting when you order something. No torque screwdriver. No 5 mm sockete wrench either, although those are easy to come by if I don't already have that size. It did sound too good a price to be true... as indeed it was, since the last time I looked for torque screwdrivers, they were either unavailable or extremely costly.

The CMOS battery is a standard CR2025 coin battery and it can be replaced without opening the laptop: access to the CMOS battery is available through the bottom of the machine, using the same panel that you use to change memory modules. But since these batteries only cost a couple bucks, and I have a stack of them handy, I always replace the CMOS battery when I upgrade the CPU. That way I can be sure that any weird errors I get afterwards don't have anything to do with a weak/dying CMOS battery. The CMOS battery is needed to keep BIOS settings and clock settings accurate while your computer is turned off, and I have replaced the CMOS battery in all my 770 machines at least once.

Yes thanks, I do know about those, and I always change those too everytime I have any machine open, even desktops. My daughter actually had one of those go dead recently on an old Aptive (highly modified) and each time she would attempt to boot it, she would have to go into the BIOS settings and restore them.

Actually now that you mention it, it has been years since I have changed the one in my 770ED... I think the last time I had it out of the SelectaDock (other than to change the hard drive back in November) was back in the middle of 2003 and the last time I changed the CMOS battery was well before that when I added more memory and had that cover open on the bottom!

<BTW> does this forum site go down at certain hours....

No, you just had bad luck -- the forum happened to have some connectivity problems that evening, but everything should be back to normal now.

Phil.

Thanks for confirming that.... I was getting worried since it happened two nights in a row

[pkiff]

The StandBy Battery comes with some other weird sticky paper with four black round dots of some material that looks like hard plastic about 1/4" in size each that I guess are supposed to be stuck someplace

Those four round dots sound like screw covers to me. In order to pull out the keyboard, you will discover that you have to remove these small round black disks covering the screws. Sometimes you end up wrecking or losing the plastic disks during removal. These disks are not necessary, but with a new set you can be assured of having a slick and smooth, like new keyboard appearance afterwards, instead of having holes showing where the screws are or having the disks in place, but displaying scratches and bends in them.

Phil.

[dave]

The StandBy Battery comes with some other weird sticky paper with four black round dots of some material that looks like hard plastic about 1/4" in size each that I guess are supposed to be stuck someplace

Those four round dots sound like screw covers to me. In order to pull out the keyboard, you will discover that you have to remove these small round black disks covering the screws. Sometimes you end up wrecking or losing the plastic disks during removal. These disks are not necessary, but with a new set you can be assured of having a slick and smooth, like new keyboard appearance afterwards, instead of having holes showing where the screws are or having the disks in place, but displaying scratches and bends in them.

Phil.

Thanks for the tip Phil! That does sound like what they must be. Sounds like you must use a tool like an ice pick or awl to pry them out with... or maybe I will try one of those little suction cups that people who have hard contacts use. How tightly do they fit in their indentations? I'll have to look at the keyboard and see if I can locate them, but right now I better postpone that since I have to get on an airplane in a few hours and get some sleep first

[powerbot]

Hi everybody!

I recently joined the forum, so this is my first post.
I just wanted you to know that I use may 770ED whit WinXP Pro SP2 every day without a single problem.

Since it only has 160mb of RAM, I take care of running only one task at a time (wordprocessing being my main task).

Everyday I sync my Dell Axim X30 via the front Irda port.

The only thing I try to avoid is doing too much web browsing, but that´s because I don´t trust too much in Windows. I´m a Ubuntu user at my desktop in home.

If I can be of any help, just let me know.
By the way, I´m from Argentina, so my native tongue is Spanish (Argentinian-Castiglian flavor), meaning my english is a bit rought.

Bye!