Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 a/b/g vs. ThinkPad Wireless a/b/g

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corymcnutt · #1 Post by **corymcnutt** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:05 am

I just ordered a T60 with the Intel wireless card, but have since read where a few people said the ThinkPad wireless card is better. I assumed that Intel was the way to go and would be compatable with all software, etc. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!

filter · #2 Post by **filter** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:26 am

Frankly the Intel solution is s**t. I was having nothing but trouble with it from the beginning. The drivers are unstable and prone to crashing and after doing the lastest update through the software updater of the thinkvantage utilities, it rendered my Wireless connection useless and I had to spend hours (!) trying to uninstall and reinstall the drivers, before it worked again. At some point the Thinkpad would crash, when attempting to remove the card or change its drivers through the device manager. I had to disable it in the bios, uninstall the drivers and install them again. Right now I can get the card to work with normal windows wireless connection software but the FN-F5 stuff isn't working anymore and I don't have the nerve to try to install the Thinkpad software for the Wlan again, since It may cost me some more precious time of my life. So I'd say, go for an aftermarket atheros card.

marlinspike · #3 Post by **marlinspike** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:38 am

Interesting. When I spoke with to someone at the 1866 *** Think number (I forget the first 3 digits), he said that the Intel was better, though in theory they are supposed to be the same. I said, so even though there is an extra 10 day wait on the Intel, you think I should get that one. He paused, then said yeah unless you really can't wait the extra days, I would go with the Intel.
Richard

corymcnutt · #4 Post by **corymcnutt** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:46 am

filter wrote:Frankly the Intel solution is s**t. So I'd say, go for an aftermarket atheros card.

The "atheros card"...is this another brand? Does it have a good rep with the ThinkPads? Is this an internal card to swap out for the Intel or a PC Card? Thanks for your thoughts.

corymcnutt · #5 Post by **corymcnutt** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:49 am

marlinspike wrote:Interesting. When I spoke with to someone at the 1866 *** Think number (I forget the first 3 digits), he said that the Intel was better, though in theory they are supposed to be the same. I said, so even though there is an extra 10 day wait on the Intel, you think I should get that one. He paused, then said yeah unless you really can't wait the extra days, I would go with the Intel.
Richard

That is very interesting for TWO reasons; ONE, it says to me that even Lenovo thinks the Intel is better, and TWO, it may explain the delay in my T60! Thanks for your comment.

laundromatt · #6 Post by **laundromatt** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:04 am

i have the intel card. no problems whatsoever, at least for me.

bwd · #7 Post by **bwd** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:56 am

corymcnutt wrote:The "atheros card"...is this another brand? Does it have a good rep with the ThinkPads? Is this an internal card to swap out for the Intel or a PC Card? Thanks for your thoughts.

The atheros card is the IBM TP card:
Part Number: 40Y7026 TP 11A/B/G LAN MINIPCI EXPADA

I swapped out my Intel card for the IBM card and it was relatively easy. I was having problems with my Intel card (which turned out to be a different issue in the end), but I'm still glad I did it since the signal strength on the TP card is way better (at home 85% signal compared with 20% with the Intel). Here is a movie showing the procedure:

Wireless adapter installation:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-63897

All T60 movies:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-63959

Just be careful with the small plugs on the wireless card since they are delicate. I would only swap cards if you are having problems with the Intel card, or if you think the card has poor reception. I think the Intel card is supposed to draw less power and give off less heat? So maybe that's why they ship with that card, although I don't notice any heat/power differences.
dave

Wiz · #8 Post by **Wiz** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:12 pm

I would chose the Atheros card without any doubt. I had a T40 with the Intel 2100b and had nothing but problems. Disconnects and bluescreens. I replaced the Intel card with a Atheros and both problems were gone.
Now i have a T43p that came with the Intel 2200bg and i gave it a chance and have to admit it was better then the 2100b, but still a lot of disconnects. No bluescreens anymore using the the Intel 2200bg though. I never managed to copy a large file using the wireless because that always ended up with a disconnect. I decided to once again switch to Atheros and never had a single disconnect since......at least not that i'm aware of. Since i use VPN a lot it's easy to see when the wireless disconnect problem occur since that also disconnect the VPN tunnel. That did happen a lot with the Intel 2200bg, but never using the Atheros. Neither with the T40 of T43p did i notice any difference with the battery capacity with Intel vs Atheros.

I also install wireless networks for customers and most of the cases were they complain about disconnects and instability they use a Intel wlan card. I'm not sure if it's related to the driver, proset client, hardware, accesspoint or all of them, but i would never recommend a Intel wlan card. To many issus as you can read from several forums as well. From my experience it's not just a single model of the Intel wlan card, but all of them that cause a lot of problems.

Since you already got a Intel wlan card i would try it out for a while, but if you start to experience issues like disconnects i wouldn't bother waste time trying to solve the problem and replace the card with a Atheros. To bad Intel never manage to get it right with their wlan cards. I don't think the reason why Lenovo recommend Intel is because it's better. I think it's more related to the Centrino brand were Intel did a great job to convince everyone it's a must for laptops. And to use the Centrino brand a Intel wlan card is required.

If i told you what i really mean about the Intel wlan cards i guess this post would have been deleted by the mods/admins because of the language.

claudeo · #9 Post by **claudeo** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:35 pm

For what it's worth, I have the Intel card in my T60 and no problem so far. I use it with VPN whenever I'm on the road. I just came back from a trip in which I used it in 3 countries, 4 hotels, 3 homes, 2 offices and one conference venue. The only problem I got was in a hotel, getting an IP address when the card connected to a very low signal AP (signal strength < 5%), with a D-Link router. Solved by moving closer.

I use it with the ThinkPad Access Connections software. Now, of course, this might all change if/when I do a software or driver update.

claudeo · #10 Post by **claudeo** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:43 pm

One additional thought. When installing software or driver updates, especially for wireless, it seems much more prudent to use a wired connection rather than a wireless connection. One less point of failure.

marlinspike · #11 Post by **marlinspike** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:04 pm

I wonder if those who have issues with the intel card on a 802.11b system? My brother has that in his laptop, and it would periodically give me issues on the 802.11b system at home. One day I saw a free after mail in rebate g router, and so I got that, and ever since going to g it works fine.

corymcnutt · #12 Post by **corymcnutt** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:25 pm

Thanks to all for your comments/observations. Since the T60 is coming with the Intel card, I will, of course try it. My concern is that my desktop is on the first floor and I will be using the T60 almost exclusively on the second floor and, hopefully, the third floor. So the strength of picking up the signal is what I am most interested in...I am using a Netgear wireless router. Luckily it is a townhouse so I will be almost directly above the router. Thanks so much, I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

sorapp · #13 Post by **sorapp** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:34 pm

FWIW, My T60 came with the Intel WLAN card and my reception at opposite end of house was 40%. I swapped for the TP card and now have a consistent 100% signal strength. Well worth the "upgrade". A side note, I did not experience any connectivity problems with the Intel card, just slow due to weak signal. I'm very happy with the TP card.

corymcnutt · #14 Post by **corymcnutt** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:57 pm

sorapp wrote:FWIW, My T60 came with the Intel WLAN card and my reception at opposite end of house was 40%. I swapped for the TP card and now have a consistent 100% signal strength. Well worth the "upgrade". A side note, I did not experience any connectivity problems with the Intel card, just slow due to weak signal. I'm very happy with the TP card.

Where did you purchase your TP card? Was it expensive? Is it easy enough to replace? This signal strength is what I am worried about...my friend just got a new Sony notebook with IntelPro and when he brought it over to the house he only had 2 bars one floor up! I want to use mine upstairs, otherwise I would just sit at my desk and use the desktop.

sorapp · #15 Post by **sorapp** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:45 pm

I purchased it from PC Connection.

marlinspike · #16 Post by **marlinspike** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:51 pm

sorapp wrote:FWIW, My T60 came with the Intel WLAN card and my reception at opposite end of house was 40%. I swapped for the TP card and now have a consistent 100% signal strength. Well worth the "upgrade". A side note, I did not experience any connectivity problems with the Intel card, just slow due to weak signal. I'm very happy with the TP card.

Do you know if you are on 802.11b or g?

3nigma · #17 Post by **3nigma** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:32 pm

The ThinkPad wireless is the option I'm going with.

The new models also feature a/b/g/*N* wireless technology.

Also- if you are a hacker, you may be interested in toying with OSx86. You can now install Mac OS X on PC hardware w/ Apple's switch to Intel chips. The Intel wireless isn't supported under OS X, but the ThinkPad wireless reads as a native Apple WiFi card.

But generally speaking, it's good for the *N* next-gen wireless.

-3nigma

sorapp · #18 Post by **sorapp** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 am

marlinspike wrote:
sorapp wrote:FWIW, My T60 came with the Intel WLAN card and my reception at opposite end of house was 40%. I swapped for the TP card and now have a consistent 100% signal strength. Well worth the "upgrade". A side note, I did not experience any connectivity problems with the Intel card, just slow due to weak signal. I'm very happy with the TP card.
Do you know if you are on 802.11b or g?

I'm using 802.11g. Don't use mixed mode on your router, if possible, it slows everything down a little.

marlinspike · #19 Post by **marlinspike** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:56 am

sorapp wrote:
marlinspike wrote: Do you know if you are on 802.11b or g?
I'm using 802.11g. Don't use mixed mode on your router, if possible, it slows everything down a little.

Well, that takes care of my theory that this is the same phenomenom my brother was experiencing with his laptop with the Intel chipset.

sorapp · #20 Post by **sorapp** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:03 am

3nigma wrote:The ThinkPad wireless is the option I'm going with.

The new models also feature a/b/g/*N* wireless technology.

Also- if you are a hacker, you may be interested in toying with OSx86. You can now install Mac OS X on PC hardware w/ Apple's switch to Intel chips. The Intel wireless isn't supported under OS X, but the ThinkPad wireless reads as a native Apple WiFi card.

But generally speaking, it's good for the *N* next-gen wireless.

-3nigma

Where did you find the new cards with *N* capability?

3nigma · #21 Post by **3nigma** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:17 pm

sorapp wrote:Where did you find the new cards with *N* capability?

I ordered my T60p the other day, and it was a listed option in the spec chart. I read elsewhere on the forums that it's now only available on the Z series for stock (or maybe I had it the other way around).

I think I paid an extra $30 or $60 for it, but I want to keep this laptop for a very long time, so I'm trying to future-proof it at least as much as possible, and get all the bleeding edge technology at the high premium cost.

Ask your sales rep about it at Lenovo, they'll have the best info.

-3nigma

redburgundy · #22 Post by **redburgundy** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:43 pm

sorapp wrote:FWIW, My T60 came with the Intel WLAN card and my reception at opposite end of house was 40%. I swapped for the TP card and now have a consistent 100% signal strength. Well worth the "upgrade". A side note, I did not experience any connectivity problems with the Intel card, just slow due to weak signal. I'm very happy with the TP card.

My experience was practically identical. With the Atheros card, I can now see and connect to many more access points than before, which is important when I stay in hotels with WiFi but with marginal coverage areas.

3nigma · #23 Post by **3nigma** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:54 pm

From the Lenovo website:

Select models are Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Capable with Intel® Core™2 Duo processors and feature new ThinkPad 11n Multiple Input/Multiple Output (MIMO) wireless technology that delivers greater levels of mobile performance, reliability, and manageabilty.

This is under both the T series and Z series. Those are the only ones I checked, it may be more than just those two.

-3nigma

#24 Post by **Kyocera** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:58 pm

If possible get the atheros, that's next on my list of stuff to replace in mine. HD was first.

My intel card seems to be doing a little better with the recent updates but it's not really good enough.

corymcnutt · #25 Post by **corymcnutt** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:36 am

This just out...

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061106/sfm108.html?.v=60

WizardNYC · #26 Post by **WizardNYC** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:31 pm

In my view there is no question switching to Atheros, is 100% better in my experience.
For those looking for the 40Y7026 check this ebay aution
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1

marlinspike · #27 Post by **marlinspike** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:49 pm

How much know-how does the swap entail? Is it basically the same difficulty of switching ram? My intel is working for me so far, but it doesn't seem to get very high signal strength (though since it works fine maybe I ought to leave well enough alone).

claudeo · #28 Post by **claudeo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:10 pm

A bit of warning, especially if you are considering "future-proofing" by getting the card with *N* capability. Draft 1.0 of 802.11n on which that card is based is an *unapproved* draft for an IEEE standard. In fact, that draft failed to pass in balloting. There is quite a bit left to resolve. In other words, if and when there is a final 802.11n standard, it is very unlikely that premature implementations will be conformant. Recent interoperability testing by eWeek Labs of several pre-N products from different vendors showed some significant problems (see http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,19 ... 072406EPW3 ).
You may want to keep this in mind to adjust your expectations.

claudeo · #29 Post by **claudeo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:21 pm

marlinspike wrote:How much know-how does the swap entail? Is it basically the same difficulty of switching ram? My intel is working for me so far, but it doesn't seem to get very high signal strength (though since it works fine maybe I ought to leave well enough alone).

It's not much more difficult (see the movies referenced in previous posts) but there is always a small risk of damage, especially as the connectors attached to the antenna leads in the machine are not designed to be disconnected without a special tool. If your current card works for you, I would suggest to leave it alone. As for me, I am considering switching to another card because I also suspect that the the Intel card might be underperforming with weaker signals, but spending money on that is very low on my ToDo list. In the thirty or so sites where I used my Intel based a/b/g in the last 5 weeks, I only found one site where the detected signal was too weak to be usable.

ron1959 · #30 Post by **ron1959** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:29 pm

I had gotten an aftermarket (not IBM or Lenovo branded) Atheros mini-pcie card for my T60. It was easy to swap in but the BIOS rejected it - saying it was an unauthorized card.

If I buy an IBM 40Y7026 atheros based card, do you know if this will be accepted ok ?

Thanks

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