T42p startup problem: BIOS hangs?

[--Peter]

hi all,

for some weeks now I'm experiencing a strange startup behavior. I checked and searched IBM/Lenovo/Google and this forum for similar reports and solution suggestions, to no avail.

the problem is with a T42p, 2373-HTG with 2GB of memory and a 100GB Hitachi drive (HTE721010G9AT00) upgrade I did roughly 5 month ago. I'm running the latest BIOS and embedded controller firmware and also checked DVD and hard disk firmware for latest versions.

the trouble started when the notebook would sometimes not come out of standby mode. after that happend several times, I started to analyze the problem step by step. here aber some observations:

1. the system hangs in roughly 5 of 10 cases before the BIOS startup screen is displayed. it shows no activity, an attchaed IBM mouse MO32BO on the USB port lights the LED for movement detection, but not the LED in the scroll wheel.
2. when a (boot) CD is in the DVD drive the problem occurs more often
3. removing the DVD drive from ultrabay does not solve the problem, ratio similar as above
4. trying a different DVD drive does not solve the problem
5. I ran the Hitachi drive fitness software, everything ok
6. the embedded controller seems to be alive, I can switch the key light on and off usinf Fn - PgUp
7. once booted the system is very reliable and almost never crashes for no reason

I'm kind of lost, it looks like a very early power on problem, the BIOS seems to wait for something prior to screen initialization.

when the screen remained black (including no BIOS startup screen) I first thought, that the display or graphics chip causes the trouble. but the boot process does not continue, the system shows no activity whatsoever. when I switch it off with the power on/off button (long press of > 5s always works) I can hear a clicking noise from the hard drive (parking heads?).

I appreciate any suggestions you might have, thanks a lot!

cheers,
-- Peter

[--Peter]

anyone?

some help would be much appreciated, thanks!

-- Peter

[agarza]

Have you tried this:

Boot thinkpad with dc power (battery only)
Boot with AC power with the battery pack removed
Reset to default the BIOS parameters

Did you make a recent hardware change, or did you opened your thinkpad?

You've a E7K100 HDD right? What's your impression with the vibration/noise/heat the drive emits? Are you satisified overall? (I've a 60Gig E7K100 I had to use as a secondary disk, because the right palmrest got very hot after the system is powered on 1 hour or so.

[--Peter]

thanks for your suggestions benottomex

I tried to boot from battery (similar behavior) but never on AC only. I also did no BIOS reset to defaults yet. I will try your suggestions tomorrow when I'll have some spare time.

Did you make a recent hardware change, or did you opened your thinkpad?

I haven't made any hw changes recently. I did reseat some connectors when I cleaned the keyboard once (prior to the mentioned problem and unconnected) and was also reseating the 1GB IBM brand memory stick when the startup problem started to occur.

You've a E7K100 HDD right? What's your impression with the vibration/noise/heat the drive emits? Are you satisified overall? (I've a 60Gig E7K100 I had to use as a secondary disk, because the right palmrest got very hot after the system is powered on 1 hour or so.

I'm quite happy with the drive, no vibrations, noise is not an issue at all and I've never noticed temperatures different from the original 60GB drive (7ksomething). the notebook is in use during more than 12h every day (sometimes including weekends...).

-- Peter

[Thinkpaddict]

Boot thinkpad with dc power (battery only)
Boot with AC power with the battery pack removed

I wouldn't try this because it could be risky. I don't know about newer Thinkpads, but in some of the older ones it is possible to corrupt the EEPROM if you lose all power at a specific point during startup.

To the OP: Sorry, I don't know what could be the problem. Maybe wait for Ray or Christopher to respond?

[--Peter]

after many more tests, I found - nothing.

but: for some reason I had to carry the T42p around while running and THEN I got some additional insight:

the display - especailly when running 3D graphics - started to go crazy when the notebook was held in some positions. one static example (screen print of this wonderful forum) can be found here: screen print 1.4 MB

after a while I could easily reproduce the graphic problem: when lifting the T42p while only holding the left corner part, the display gets corrupted/dark, sometimes leading to a crash of some ati driver, requiring a reboot.

so today I shipped the device to the next repair center. I assume they will replace the MB, luckily I still have one year of my 3 year warranty.

thanks for helping,
-- Peter

[vlyne]

after a while I could easily reproduce the graphic problem: when lifting the T42p while only holding the left corner part, the display gets corrupted/dark, sometimes leading to a crash of some ati driver, requiring a reboot.

It would be interesting to see whether they will replace the MB. If IBM technicans are trained as per the HMM then they should follow the recommended procedure:

When analyzing an intermittent problem, do the following: 1. Run the diagnostic test for the system board in loop mode at least 10 times. 2. If no error is detected, do not replace any FRUs. 3. If any error is detected, replace the FRU shown by the FRU code. Rerun the test to verify that no more errors exist.

BUT, that process won't work if the problem is intermittent but not reproducible (yes, I know what your twisted mind is thinking here...intermittent...reproducible....). The recommendation in that case is:

Intermittent system hang problems can be due to a variety of causes that have nothing to do with a hardware defect, such as cosmic radiation, electrostatic discharge, or software errors. FRU replacement should be considered only when a problem recurs.

"Cosmic radiation"!! Does that mean our warranties are void if we take our laptops into outer space? [censored]! there goes another burst of "cosmic radiation" killing off my laptop! I must get around to building that radiation shield one day and all my problems will be solved.

And, I like the bit about reading the ECA information:

If the system board is being replaced, try to read the ECA information from the old system board and transfer the information to the new system. If the system board is inoperable, this will not be possible.

Enough said....

The insight you found into the problem by lifting the left front edge suggests some sort of intermittent contact problem. On the left side are the PC Card slot and the behind that the CPU. There are also the wireless contacts in middle front. I suspect reseating all connectors may have helped. But then, if you still have warranty available you might as well have those well trained technicians take care of replacing the FRUs.

Let us know what they come back with.
Cheers

[--Peter]

The insight you found into the problem by lifting the left front edge suggests some sort of intermittent contact problem. On the left side are the PC Card slot and the behind that the CPU. There are also the wireless contacts in middle front. I suspect reseating all connectors may have helped. But then, if you still have warranty available you might as well have those well trained technicians take care of replacing the FRUs.

I was guessing along the same lines and therefore I opened it up again to reseat connectors (I did already reseat connectors earlier as mentioned above), but did not remove the fan assembly to go for the CPU. anyway, it didn't help, that's when I decided - what the heck - let's have the technician fix that.

Let us know what they come back with.

I'm wondering myself what the fix will be, I'll let you know...

-- Peter

[--Peter]

I got my T42p back from the repair center today.

according to the delivery notice they replaced the mainboard, did a BIOS update (I already got 3.21 previously) and cleaned it.

everything is working again! hope the new MB will last longer than 2 years ...


cheers,
-- Peter

[vlyne]

Fixed as per the manual! It would be useful to know what exactly went wrong. At least you're up and running again. Does the warranty on the new MB end the same time as the rest of the machine?
Cheers

[--Peter]

Fixed as per the manual! It would be useful to know what exactly went wrong. At least you're up and running again. Does the warranty on the new MB end the same time as the rest of the machine?
Cheers

unfortunately no further details on the real problem. I assume the new MB will be covered until my overall warranty expires. after this they give a warranty of 3 month on any repair that one paid for.

-- Peter