T23 wont operate off of battery

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jakewiz247 · #1 Post by **jakewiz247** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:13 pm

Alright, well i looked around alot of the power issue threads on here and wasnt able to get anything to work. What i have is a T23 that is recognizing the battery as being in the machine, but not running off of it. I've done a pc dos scan on the machine and all the hardware passed. I have also tried discharging both the battery and the system board. The battery was tested in another T23 and worked fine but the other battery did not work in mine. I know this makes it sound like the system board is bad but it passed the scan. Any additional idea would be appreciated greatly.

#2 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:29 pm

jakewiz247 wrote:What i have is a T23 that is recognizing the battery as being in the machine, but not running off of it.

What exactly do you mean by "recognized"? The battery LED being on? Windows power manager saying it sees the battery and/or retrieving the battery info? An indication that the battery is being charged?

jakewiz247 wrote:I've done a pc dos scan on the machine and all the hardware passed.

I'm assuming you mean PC Doctor here. If so, there should be a battery test under the Diagnostics/Other Devices menu. Run it manually just to make sure it was detected properly during a "full" diagnostic.

jakewiz247 wrote:The battery was tested in another T23 and worked fine but the other battery did not work in mine.

That says the battery is fine and your problem is with the system/motherboard. I know that there are fuses which protect each power input (DC jack, main battery and Ultrabay battery). I would assume that if the fuse is blown that you could still read the battery information from the EEPROM inside the battery as that data comes off of a different lead from the battery. In order to check the fuse, you would need to remove the keyboard (and possibly the keyboard bezel; can't recall at the moment but I can check my dead system at home in a little while) and use a multimeter to check continuity of the fuse. Even if you do verify that the fuse is blown, you then have the problem of replacing it. I think I can find the correct part number of the fuse and you should be able to order one from Mouser.com or Digikey.com.

vlyne · #3 Post by **vlyne** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:41 pm

I fully agree with Ray's incisive diagnosis. You have to wonder though, if it is the fuse, what caused it to blow in the first place. Is there any way these batteries can be load tested?
Cheers

#4 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:10 pm

vlyne wrote:<snip>... if it is the fuse, what caused it to blow in the first place.

A rule which I chose to ignore when replacing a blown fuse on a T23 motherboard and which now exudes a burning smell when powered up with the AC adapter. The fuse in-line with the DC jack was the one that I replaced; I think it's okay when run on battery only.

vlyne wrote:Is there any way these batteries can be load tested?

A 10 ohm, 10 watt resistor maybe

?

vlyne · #5 Post by **vlyne** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:37 pm

vlyne wrote:Is there any way these batteries can be load tested?

A 10 ohm, 10 watt resistor maybe

?[/quote]

So Ray does have a sense of humour!

Let me rephrase... If the battery is on the way out it may take a lot of charge which gets dissipated into heat and not as much (as in the normal case) in stored energy. Under these circumstances the A/C would be working overtime to charge the battery (which stubbornly refuses to be charged). The fuses have no option but to either take the load or blow. So, one way to test the battery is to check the rate of stored energy (voltage in this case as a surrogate) as a function of input energy (A/C watts). I don't know what this curve should look like but I suspect a good battery and a "bad" battery will display different curves. OK, a 10 ohm fuse and a recording multimeter might do the trick but it would be nice to have something more automated that uses the battery monitor signals.
Cheers

#6 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:37 am

G'day!

vlyne wrote:So Ray does have a sense of humour!

Yes I do, however you misspelled the word "humor"

.

vlyne wrote:The fuses have no option but to either take the load or blow.

From what I can tell off of the markings, the fuse that is protecting the DC power jack is 7A. I'm not sure whether it is a fast-acting or slow-blow (I can't find the bag that has the extra ones I ordered). A normal battery would not take that much current; if a shorted battery was installed then, yes, that could blow a fuse. The large ceramic fuses for the main battery and Ultrabay are 10A. There are also smaller microfuses near both areas (rating unknown). A 7A thermal fuse near the Ultrabay does not appear to be connected to the Ultrabay. I'm guessing it's for the LCD since it's closer to that connector. FYI, I've found a designation for "F18" on the motherboard, indicating that there may be up to 18 fuses! I've only been able to find about 9 or 10 of them.

vlyne · #7 Post by **vlyne** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:07 am

Howdy!

rkawakami wrote:
vlyne wrote:So Ray does have a sense of humour!
Yes I do, however you misspelled the word "humor" .

I apologise

Everything rotates the wrong way down here.

rkawakami wrote:FYI, I've found a designation for "F18" on the motherboard, indicating that there may be up to 18 fuses! I've only been able to find about 9 or 10 of them.

Yes, there's a surprising number of them but the power fuses are relatively easy to spot. It's those micros that are hard to find.

I still think it would be useful to have a more intelligent battery monitor that can pre-warn of battery problems. That combined with the temperature monitor should help avoid a number of recurring disasters. In my experience a number of these fuse problems are due to the use of wrong A/C adapters but I'm now suspecting that batteries may also pay a major role.
Cheers

jakewiz247 · #8 Post by **jakewiz247** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:20 pm

yes i used PC Doctor and ran the full test, all passed. And yes when i have the battery and ac connected, it will turn on and show the battery LED lit up and all of the battery info when i check it with the battery maximizer tool. More than likely i do believe that the fuse being blown is the most likely cause. If you do find out which one it is testing it wont be a problem and if you could find a replacement part number or rating on the fuse that would be nice.

#9 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:37 pm

I think I have a scan of my dead T23 motherboard around here somewhere. I'll post a copy up on my site and let you know when it's available. As far as the part numbers for the fuse(s), give me a day or so to investigate.

jakewiz247 · #10 Post by **jakewiz247** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:51 pm

I also found out the the power supply that i am using with it is from an older model thinkpad that runs at a higher voltage so this could have also been the case of it blowing the fuse.

Website · #11 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:01 pm

Higher voltage or higher amperage? What were the specs of the Ac adapter that you were using? (ie. 16V 3.36A)

jakewiz247 · #12 Post by **jakewiz247** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:22 pm

higher voltage, it was 17V as opposed to 15V i think is the max recommended for it. Same amp though.

#13 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:30 pm

The T23 should use the 16V 4.5A supply. Using one rated at 17V may have caused some problems but I would assume that the fuse in-line with the DC jack would have blown before the one for the battery, but that's just my guess. Still working on posting that motherboard image... I'm at work right now so that's slowing me down some

.

edit: Okay, here it is:

http://www.rkawakami.net/ibm_t2x/t23_mo ... _fuses.jpg

The larger fuse looks to be a 10A by the markings. The smaller "microfuse" has a letter code, "F", which could be the rating. Still trying to track down that data. In either case, they can be easily checked with a multimeter. To gain access to this area, you need to remove the keyboard, the keyboard insulator and the keyboard bezel.

vlyne · #14 Post by **vlyne** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:59 pm

The lower amperage A/C adapter/adaptor/whatever may not have enough grunt when full power is needed. In that case the adapter may overheat and die, and the battery will have to take up the slack. All round, not a good situation to be in as something is bound to give up the ghost.
Cheers

jakewiz247 · #15 Post by **jakewiz247** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:12 pm

Ok well here's some interesting info. Just tested both fuses with my multimeter and both of them were still working. So on that note, i have no idea whats going on.

jakewiz247 · #16 Post by **jakewiz247** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:16 pm

sorry, i was wrong, 10A is bad.

#17 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:03 pm

The 10A fuse in this .PDF file may be what you need:

http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Data_Sheets/448.pdf

There are a couple of different fuses with a 10A rating offered by Littelfuse. I'll have to do a little more digging to see if I can identify exactly which one can be used as a replacement.

BTW, if you go here:

http://www.littelfuse.com/cgi-bin/r.cgi ... Mount.html

you can search the Littelfuse parts catalog. Specify the rated current as 8.1-10A and leave the three options checked (very fast-acting, fast-acting, slo-blow).

#18 Post by **rkawakami** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:01 am

After careful inspection of the various datasheets, the best guess I can come up with for replacing the 10A fuse protecting the main battery terminals (and Ultrabay ones too), is this one:

http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Data_ ... 51_453.pdf

The series 448 comes in a gold-plated end cap, which is not evident on the ones I have on my T23 motherboard. So going with the silver-plated version, 0453010, this is what I find at mouser.com:

Littelfuse 10A Very Fast Acting Surface Mount Fuse (silver)

Available in single-unit quantities at $1.46 (plus shipping).

The tin-plated ones are cheaper, at $0.89:

Littelfuse 10A Very Fast Acting Surface Mount Fuse (tin)

Take your pick. I would order either one of them for my systems. But be aware... the original fuse blew out for a reason. If the cause for the excessive current has not been removed, you risk additional damage to the replacement fuse and/or the motherboard.

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