[Warning] Don't install "PC-Doctor 5"

[christopher_wolf]

Look, I (and others) have said this once and I will say it again, the problem is *not* a buggy PCD5, it is with the *installer*. The packaging was incorrectly done, by either the original software authors or Lenovo, and Lenovo is working on a fix to it.

The thread was *not* moved to the Administrator/Moderator Conference and there are at least three threads, two of which are very alive, talking about this topic here, in the READ ME FIRST/FAQ conference, and the General News and Announcements Conference. Everybody, including non-registered users have access to that. I strongly suggest you actually check things out before you post as that saves a waste of time. The information is already there and clicking on it, hopefully, is not too much of a burden.

In addition, I would like to point out that this thread is for the discussion of the problem at hand (PCD5 Silent Installer Corrupting the ARP CPL List) and not for posts, or future posts, that are comprised of 2/3rds whining about Lenovo, this, that, and the other that has, at best, only the most tenuous relations. Those posts quickly derail the thread and head Off-Topic very quickly. I will kindly request that future posts please stay on-topic as much as possible.

[t41user]

I am not here to whine. I am trying to figure out what, if anything, to do to my computer to remedy the changes to my computer after installing PC Doctor 5.

I am not smart enough to have any idea how to "regenerate the keys".

Is it possible that Lenovo will post some kind of fix that will have the same helpful/restorative effect as regenerating the keys? Or will any possible Lenovo fix only stop their download (whether it is the program itself or the silent installer or whatever) from having further negative effects on further downloads?

If I do not know how to regenerate the keys (I don't even know what that means) should I try to find the CDs that I got three years ago with my computer and try to reinstall everything? For now on, I will keep system restore turned on and I will try to read up on matters before installing new software. But what should I do now?

[JaneL]

But the final waste of time is the relocation of the PC Doc 5 forum thread to the Administration's forum that will not allow any discussion unless one is an Administrator.

What are you babbling on about? You're posting in the Windows OS conference about the PC Doctor problem in a thread that's been going on since 11/1. What do you think has been relocated?

[christopher_wolf]

T41user, my post wasn't directed at you.

All that has happened in the registry is that keys that point to uninstallers were somehow removed by the PCD5 silent installer. Nothing with any of the programs should have changed. Some programs, like Adobe Photoshop, use further redirects and may have to be re-installed to work correctly. The most lightweight fix is to apply a registry snapshot taken before the keys got removed, which requires that you have the "before" snapshots.

Other than that, you can restore either from a backup made by R&R or from a restore point by System Restore in Safe Mode.

The other solution is reinstalling of all the affected software in the ARP list as that puts the correct references for the uninstallers back in their proper places. Otherwise, and without a backup, that part has to be done by hand to achieve the same result. The former is far easier than the latter, but only if you have the time and media to reinstall those programs. It more has to do with being "tediuos" rather than "smart."

[Tigsman]

Chris.. I have not yet been able to nail this down. you stated you had a slew of TPs that did the update yet some failed and others did not. Can we determine if there was a specific app installed on the failed systems that was not on the others, like IE7? Perhaps that is causing the issues at hand. Many of Lenovo's apps seem to rely on IE settings and Im wondering if this is just one more of those instances where being the first on the block with the new toy is a not a good thing. My system came with PCDR4WIN 5 already on it, so the update is moot to me, but Im wondering if we can nail down a cause and effect perhaps with your troop of TPs so we can help Lenovo et this fixed fast



T

[christopher_wolf]

Thanks, Tigsman; I was, barely, thinking along the same lines as that when I first came across it as there is just one reference to a person that completed the update with the silent installer without anomalous results in the ARP CPL. None of the Thinkpads that I fixed up could be used for that at the time because they didn't have IE7 on them yet, but I could try it on one with IE7 and see how it goes. That might make a difference as you pointed out that stuff like SU2 seem to depend on what IE7 does. Although that would be a first for the package since I haven't seen any other package installer from IBM/Lenovo, either through SI or SU2, do that. Worth a shot though.

[rebop]

FWIW, I do not have IE7 and I got burned by this.

One thing I do not think has been mentioned enough, and I think is VERY important, is that once the ADD Remove keys are gone, SU or SI ties to install OLDER versions of things already installed, such as the Fingerprint reader, Access IBM, etc, etc. This causes its own set of problems. So, if you allow that to happen, as I di thinking it might fix some of the problem, you have a bigger fix to deal with. In my case, 11.5 hours of fiddling to get 100% back to where I was before PC Doc 5.

[christopher_wolf]

IMO, breaking the update coherence of SI and SU2 is a bigger problem than just a minor problem with the ARP CPL given that it can be replace by CCLeaner, System Mechanic, or any other utility that has an "Uninstaller" feature and they won't be affected by this little bug.

[acz]

I have a t41p (2373-geu), and IE 7 has not been installed.
Lenovo System Update has never been installed on this machine either.
This evening when I used Software Installer 3.63.0611, it reported several updates. I am in the habit of installing only one at a time, and, I picked PC Doctor 5. I always ask SI to show me the details, and it reported that PCD was not installed. I could not recall ever using PCD before, so that seemed plausible in the moment.
PCD 5 seemed to install without any errors, and the system restarted without any apparent problem. I then ran PC Doctor, it seemed to work just fine, and it said my system was OK.
Returning to SI for further updates, I was shocked to see a very long list of updates, including a lot of familiar program names.
So I called Lenovo support in Atlanta immediately, at approximately 10 pm PT on Sunday 5 Nov.
The tech had heard of this problem a few times today, and told me that the OFFICIAL solution (at least right now) is to allow Software Installer to run through that long list. He estimated it would take about 15 minutes, and would not use up any additional disk space, because SI would overwrite the installed versions are already on the hard drive. He said that at the end of the SI process, the version list would be fixed.
I did not rush to that solution.
Instead, I figured that since I had only installed one new program (PCD5), that this might be the very situation for which System Restore was designed.
So I powered down, booted into Safe Mode, and did a System Restore using a restore point from yesterday.
I think everything is OK, and SI looks as it did before I installed PC Doctor, except that now when I use SI "View driver and application version information" there are three odd entries, as follows:

• Thinkvantage Rescue and Recovery 3.10.0017
  Thinkvantage Rescue and Recovery (English) 3.10.0017.00
  Thinkvantage Rescue and Recovery (English) 3.10.0017.00

Also, PC Doctor does not appear in that list, although I only did the system restore, and I did not UNinstall PCD.
However, when I ask SI to "Install or upgrade drivers and software" -- PC Doctor does not appear anywhere in the list.

There is an entry for PCD in my Start, All Programs list, and it runs PCD version 4.

My next step was to come right to Thinkpads.com and find this thread, where wiser heads than mine converge.

Does anyone have an explanation about the R&R entries reported by SI? I think I will check back here in the morning, then do an R&R backup. If that completes successfully, I'll use SI to update R&R to 3.10.0022. Hm. should I uninstall 3.10.0017 first?

Anyway, from now on, I will proceed more carefully and do a backup every time before accepting updates from SI.

I see here now that the System Restore in Safe Mode has worked for others, and I hope it works for anyone else affected by this problem.
Thanks for any advice.

[acz]

IMO, breaking the update coherence of SI and SU2 is a bigger problem than just a minor problem with the ARP CPL given that it can be replace by CCLeaner, System Mechanic, or any other utility that has an "Uninstaller" feature and they won't be affected by this little bug.

My ignorance is showing... Chris could you explain how to use CCleaner in this context? I thought that it removed uninstaller programs, I don't know how to use it to fix the Add/Remove list in the face of a problem like this one with SI+PCD.
Thanks.

[christopher_wolf]

It can't fix what has happened to the ARP CPL, but it can replace the uninstaller functionality served by it. So one isn't prevented from uninstalling one's application simply because that list doesn't work correctly or doesn't display the proper "Change/Remove" buttons.

[JaneL]

Anyway, from now on, I will proceed more carefully and do a backup every time before accepting updates from SI.

That's always a good idea for every update - not just those from Lenovo. DAMHIK!

[christopher_wolf]

Oh, indeed; it is a good thing to do whenever you update anything important on your Thinkpad.

I wonder how many people pay attention to the little msgbox that pops up right after downloading the packages and right before the install list selection strongly advising the user to make a backup and pointing to the right software to do it?

[ukzthgp]

I too have downloaded and installed PC Doctor 5 for Windows using the S/W installer and have the corrupted Add/Remove programs problem.

In addition now I also have the problem where my network adapters are unusable after rebooting.

For example I am now happily connected to a company network using the integrated Intel network card. If I shut down and restart I will find that my ethernet card will not connect to the network, (it will show a physical connection exists, but is not able to negotiate an actual IP connection), and the wirless card will not respond to any commands to either turn on or off.
The only way I have found to restore connectivity is to use the R&R backup. Unfortunately this backup contained the infamous PCD 5 update.

I then took the drastic action to restore to factory condition and reinstall all software and associated Thinkvantage updates, (obviously before reading this forum about the problems with PCD5 and SI).

All was fine for a few days but now the problem with the network adapters appears to have re-appeared.

I do not know why the restore using the R&R "base" backup works initially then after a short while the network adapters fail, but the only solution I can see is to restore to factory conditions again and then do the updates again this time leaving out anything to do with PCD5.

Out of interest does the problem with PCD5 manifest itself if the System Update feature is used instead of software intaller?

[christopher_wolf]

Out of interest does the problem with PCD5 manifest itself if the System Update feature is used instead of software intaller?

Welcome to the Thinkpad Forums

No, it isn't specific to the exact update utility that is used to get the package; either SI or SU2. Rather, it is a characteristic, near as I can tell, of the package itself with the silent install option.

Manually, it should go OK.

[ukzthgp]

No, it isn't specific to the exact update utility that is used to get the package; either SI or SU2. Rather, it is a characteristic, near as I can tell, of the package itself with the silent install option.

Manually, it should go OK.

Thank you for the feedback on the install tools. Manual it is then, if at all.

If anyone else has experienced network adapter issues associated with this problem as well please update this thread especially if you have any solutions that avoid continually having to use the R&R process to get a connected machine again.

[BillMorrow]

I received this email from Doug van Aman of PC-Doc..

To the members of the ThinkPads.com Support Community:

Many thanks to all in the forum who have brought the upgrade issue to our attention and have helped other members. We first learned of the issue on Friday and have been researching it since. A solution has been developed and submitted to our QA lab for testing before it is released to Lenovo. We expect this should be done within the next 24 to 48 hours.

Meanwhile, to prevent anyone else from encountering the issue, we have asked Lenovo to take down the PC-Doctor 5 upgrade from their site; they have done so.

For those who have been affected, it appears (as many on this forum have pointed out) that use of System Restore to a known good date returns the system to health. As with any other use of the System Restore feature in Windows, data saved after the restoration date will not be available.

Finally, the installer issue occurred during silent upgrades from old versions of PC-Doctor 4 to the new PC-Doctor 5. Put simply, the PC-Doctor 5 installer did not work with all versions of the uninstaller code used in iterative releases of PC-Doctor 4. The developed solution prevents this incompatibility from happening.

Again, many thanks to the community for their hard work and insights!

[GACrabill]

Returning to SI for further updates, I was shocked to see a very long list of updates, including a lot of familiar program names.
So I called Lenovo support in Atlanta immediately, at approximately 10 pm PT on Sunday 5 Nov.
The tech had heard of this problem a few times today, and told me that the OFFICIAL solution (at least right now) is to allow Software Installer to run through that long list. He estimated it would take about 15 minutes, and would not use up any additional disk space, because SI would overwrite the installed versions are already on the hard drive. He said that at the end of the SI process, the version list would be fixed.
I did not rush to that solution.

I'm glad that you did not rush to that solution.

This OFFICIAL solution did not work for me. After working my way thru the long list of software to be re-installed with SI and a few re-boots along the way, I was left with 3 products that would say that they had installed but after a re-boot, they were again listed by SI as needing to be installed. Besides wasting a lot of time trying this solution, the net effect was that all of my pre-PCD5 restore points were gone and my only solution then was to restore from an image backup of the hard drive.

[Tigsman]

I received this email from Doug van Aman of PC-Doc..

To the members of the ThinkPads.com Support Community:

Many thanks to all in the forum who have brought the upgrade issue to our attention and have helped other members. We first learned of the issue on Friday and have been researching it since. A solution has been developed and submitted to our QA lab for testing before it is released to Lenovo. We expect this should be done within the next 24 to 48 hours.

Meanwhile, to prevent anyone else from encountering the issue, we have asked Lenovo to take down the PC-Doctor 5 upgrade from their site; they have done so.

For those who have been affected, it appears (as many on this forum have pointed out) that use of System Restore to a known good date returns the system to health. As with any other use of the System Restore feature in Windows, data saved after the restoration date will not be available.

Finally, the installer issue occurred during silent upgrades from old versions of PC-Doctor 4 to the new PC-Doctor 5. Put simply, the PC-Doctor 5 installer did not work with all versions of the uninstaller code used in iterative releases of PC-Doctor 4. The developed solution prevents this incompatibility from happening.

Again, many thanks to the community for their hard work and insights!

Now this was very helpful. Now Lenovo knows about it at the level that need to know about it. This should help Lenovo 1st level techs know about this issue and hopefully they will have a new package released soon. Now fixing those that are already broke, thats another issue. Im just glad so far safe mode System Restore has helped most of those that needed help.

Note: The PC-Doctor 5 for Windows files have been temporarily removed from this Web site. An updated version will be made available here shortly. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Thanx Bill!


T

[christopher_wolf]

Now this was very helpful. Now Lenovo knows about it at the level that need to know about it.

Oh but they already do, ever since this thread had about three responses. Hard work is being done on it.

[Tigsman]

Now this was very helpful. Now Lenovo knows about it at the level that need to know about it.

Oh but they already do, ever since this thread had about three responses. Hard work is being done on it.

its a shame the first level techs didn't know about it, but now they know too


T

[christopher_wolf]

By the way, I emulated the situation on the Thinkpads that were affected by it both with and without IE7; I saw no difference in what happened to the ARP CPL so IE7 shouldn't be the problem.

[eTools]

If I'm making a backup before I run system update, would running "Create Rescue Media" be sufficient or will I need to backup more of my hard drive?

[GomJabbar]

Creating the Rescue Media does not backup anything. It only makes a bootable CD for accessing your hard drive when your hard drive will not boot up. You need to use Rescue and Recovery or IBM Rapid Restore Ultra (depending upon how old your ThinkPad is). You can also use Microsoft backup or any of a variety of 3rd party backup software solutions.

If you haven't done it yet, make a set of Product Recovery Discs. This feature is available on the ThinkPads made in the last couple of years. These will restore your system to the original factory software - including Windows. When you use them they erase anything that you have added since, so they are not really a backup solution.

[eTools]

So the only real way to make a true backup is through Rescue and Recovery which basically requires me to get an external hard drive.

I'll have to look into getting a cheap one then

[GomJabbar]

So the only real way to make a true backup is through Rescue and Recovery which basically requires me to get an external hard drive.

I'll have to look into getting a cheap one then

Rescue and Recovery from within Windows allows you to backup to CD's or DVD's. I've done it before.

[christopher_wolf]

So the only real way to make a true backup is through Rescue and Recovery which basically requires me to get an external hard drive.

I'll have to look into getting a cheap one then

Or you could use R&R to make a full backup of the entire system on the primary HDD which would save you having to get another drive if you didn't have any more need for backups or if you already have a large, desktop-based drive and would like to take at least one image with you. Should Windows get corrupt, you can still load the image from the Access IBM R&R environment after pressing the "Access IBM" or "ThinkVantage" button during boot. No need to boot into Windows for a full image restore from a backup you made.

I find that it tends to be better than System Restore as I have encountered situations where System Restore didn't do diddly squat to help.

[eTools]

For example this topic's situation.

Currently I'm using about 16GB and I have 36GB free on my 60GB Hitachi TRAVELSTAR hard drive. I couldn't find anything that would be me an indication as to how much space a backup would take up. Any idea?

[christopher_wolf]

For example this topic's situation.

Currently I'm using about 16GB and I have 36GB free on my 60GB Hitachi TRAVELSTAR hard drive. I couldn't find anything that would be me an indication as to how much space a backup would take up. Any idea?

36GB is more than enough; how much space it takes up depends on your initial system configuration. It is comparable to a "light" boot image and weighs in anywhere from 3GB-8GB.

It does a check before it writes so you shouldn't accidentally run out of space.

[sprey]

OK...call me dumb but I am one of the few that DID unload PC Doc before installing the new version--and I have "no bugs" but like others...

1. Control Panel/remove software no longer identifies all the programs installed.
2. Not all of Thinkpad's programs are identified either (namely software installer).

Spent 1 hour with IBM support (including expedite)...their solution is to wait until they discover a fix (if there is one)...or do a complete Windows system re-install. Not acceptable!

I am going to restore point (sometime before November) and give that a shot. Arggh!!!