T23 needs to be revived...

[riski1]

This certainly doesn't look like Kansas...from what I've seen, it must be OZ

Been gathering much info the last few days lurking amongst the pages assembled here at thinkpads.com. Am I glad I found you all.

Being pretty much the novice or intermediate user, I'm a noob wheb it comes to notebooks...in fact, this T23 is my first. My wife got a T23 through her companies program to re-sell old notebooks to the employees after their useful cycle in the corporate world. She put her name on the waiting list and after 3 months and $225 we had a T23 in it's original box. This is a cherry, just like new except for the fact it has no OS...wiped down

Spent the major portion of a month in the loop at IBM.com gathering tons of info, but it always seemed as though it was meant for the IT person. Kept trying to fill the gaps without success until I found this forum. Now I have a start...

Here's what I have:

T23 Thinkpad: Model 2647-5RU
CPU: 1.2 Ghz
Memory: 256 MB
Bios: v1.09 (1AET52WW)
Embedded Controller: v1.03a
30 Gb Hard Drive
No OS, except for W98 DOS on bootup

So far, I've got a GB of memory installed and recognized, ordered a 80Gb hard drive at 5400 RPM, instead of the 4200 RPM and have an extra XP cd looking for a home. The HDD will be here Mon, but first I need to update the Bios to v1.20 and then the Embedded Controller to v1.06a, in that order. I've got both downloaded and installed to a floppy for updating, but here is one of those gaps in the info I've found. How do I go about this step in the upgrade????? What do I expect when I boot up to these floppies???

Is it similar to flashing the bios on a normal mobo using Award flash? That would be my only experience

As you can see, I'm in need of some help getting this T23 ready for my daughter's Christmas present. She has needed one at college for the last year and this will be the ultimate for her studies here and abroad.

Sorry for being so windy, but didn't really know how to break the ice at a new place. And, I must apologize ahead of time for being a little more lacking in experience than most of the posters I've read here. I do promise to catch up

RJ aka Riski1

PS: I don't mind reading, so links to any valued info is just as welcome as the advise from here.

[rkawakami]

Welcome to thinkpads.com!

Wow, somebody else who posts long messages like I do... wonder if it's catching .

Basically, you boot the BIOS and embedded controller diskettes and follow all of the screens. Warnings about this and that, make sure you have a fully-charged battery, make sure you've plugged in an AC adapter, don't power off the system while the update is running, yada, yada, yada. If you've had experience updating a desktop system before, it's really no different (okay, you don't have to worry about a battery, but you get the picture).

Once you have an OS loaded, I think you will be happy with the T23. A Gig of memory and a large enough hard drive for those many MP3 files will be appreciated by your daughter. My oldest is in college in LA and she loves her systems (one for her, and a backup her boyfriend is using). You may want to figure out a good, clean backup system for those times when things don't go right. My solution is an Ultrabay HD adapter, port replicator, external floppy drive and Ghost 2003. As the T23 only comes with USB 1.1, an external USB hard drive and a nearly full 80GB drive does not add up to a good time.

As far as links go, these are the ones I recommend: (currently it looks like IBM is off-line; the link should work later)

IBM Hardware Maintenance Manual for T2x

PC Doctor thread here at thinkpads.com

[riski1]

Wow, somebody else who posts long messages like I do... wonder if it's catching .

This would be more exception, than the rule

Basically, you boot the BIOS and embedded controller diskettes and follow all of the screens. Warnings about this and that, make sure you have a fully-charged battery, make sure you've plugged in an AC adapter, don't power off the system while the update is running, yada, yada, yada. If you've had experience updating a desktop system before, it's really no different (okay, you don't have to worry about a battery, but you get the picture).

Gotta tose in a short question...is it necessary to set the Bios to the defaults before upgrading? Seems I read that in one of the IBM pages, but can't be for sure. A guy should drop bread crumbs while browsing through their site

As far as links go, these are the ones I recommend: (currently it looks like IBM is off-line; the link should work later)

IBM Hardware Maintenance Manual for T2x

PC Doctor thread here at thinkpads.com

Found the Hardware Maintenance Manual, downloaded and printed it 2 weeks ago A good friend gave me the meaning of RTFM many years ago, so I usually do my part.

The PC Doctor is forth coming The rest will come in due time. I get in trouble putting the cart before the horse

Thank you kind Sir

[rkawakami]

...is it necessary to set the Bios to the defaults before upgrading? Seems I read that in one of the IBM pages, but can't be for sure.

I don't believe you need to do that. The few times that I have updated the BIOS or embedded controller in the 600X or T23 I did not do any kind of prep work beforehand. I'm sure it would not hurt to do so and I don't recall seeing that in any of the warning screens coming off the diskettes.

[Purcy]

Sorry for being so windy, but didn't really know how to break the ice at a new place. And, I must apologize ahead of time for being a little more lacking in experience than most of the posters I've read here. I do promise to catch up

Greetings and welcome to you. As one who is much less informed and able than you, I always find great help and warmth on this board. I must ask a real numnuts question here. I have a second hand T22 and I have never checked to see which version of BIOS I have, because I don't know where to look for it. There, now you know how much I have to learn My beauty does not have a floppy drive and I would be hardpressed financially to buy one just for floppy booting. But can I get by even if I have the original BIOS version? Sorry to pirate your post Riski1.

[rkawakami]

Easy way to check for the BIOS level is to simply access the BIOS setup screen. Hold down the F1 key while turning power on, or quickly press the key when you see the message on the IBM splash screen. Once the screen is displayed there is a "BIOS Version" 1.xx (XXXXXXXX), a BIOS date and then the "Embedded Controller Version" 1.xx. You can also verify that the system-unit serial number matches the label on the bottom of the laptop. If they DON'T match, then somebody before you has performed some surgery .

Updating the BIOS to the latest and greatest is really only needed if it happens to fix a problem you are having (IMHO). Ultrabay 2000 floppy drives can be had fairly cheaply (some on eBay at the moment for $11 shipped). But as you point out, if you are only going to use it once (maybe twice), then it may not be worth buying one. On the other hand, you could always re-sell it! My solution to the floppy disk drive problem is to use both the port replicator and an external floppy drive from the 600 series. This way I can get a "three-spindle" machine (hard drive, Ultrabay hard or optical drive and floppy) out of my T-series systems. Cost is only slightly more than a dedicated Ultrabay floppy but it makes Ghosting systems and booting diagnostic programs really easy.

[riski1]

Greetings and welcome to you. As one who is much less informed and able than you, I always find great help and warmth on this board. I must ask a real numnuts question here. I have a second hand T22 and I have never checked to see which version of BIOS I have, because I don't know where to look for it. There, now you know how much I have to learn My beauty does not have a floppy drive and I would be hardpressed financially to buy one just for floppy booting. But can I get by even if I have the original BIOS version? Sorry to pirate your post Riski1.

Thanks for the Welcome, it's greatly appreciated. And, you are not anywhere close to a pirate Personally, I prefer having all the info in one long thread as to jumping through the time continuum.

rkawakami is very helpfull

I wish he would have mentioned the loud beep and black screen after updating the BIOS though...talk about freeking out They need a more subtle way of shutting down. All in all, it was almost too easy updating the BIOS and Embedded Controller. Sorta like a true-false test back in school, without trick questions.

It looks like your running XP-SP2 Purcy. I just wonder if someone updated your Bios and Embedded Controller before installing XP???

So far this is cool...I think Dad should have a Thinkpad too

[riski1]

Dang, I knew I forgot something.

As long as I have the BIOS and Embedded Controller up to date and the new hard drive hasn't arrived yet, can I use PC Doctor to test what's what?

I liked Ray's idea in another thread about using the old drive for Ghosting using the UltraBay 2000. This will be a topic down the road

[rkawakami]

I wish he would have mentioned the loud beep and black screen after updating the BIOS though...talk about freeking out

Hhmm... sorry about that... It's been awhile since I did a BIOS or EC update that I didn't remember that. I also keep my machine's volume control turned down (or off) since I rarely use them for A/V purposes.

As far as PC Doc is concerned, you can use it to test most all of the hardware components in the system. I would at least run the "Quick Test" diagnostic set for a fast look at the system. You can run any of the tests individually. Also, if you access the F2 menu prior to executing a diag, you can set a "Pass Count" value. That causes PC Doctor to automatically run your specific test that many times. Quite useful to "burn in" a system overnight. One thing to watch out for if you use the CD-based version and you have an external floppy drive: the diskette tests will not work correctly because the program will assume the booting device is a floppy drive and not the CDROM drive. If you access the Diagnostics/Diskette Drives menu, you can run tests on Floppy 1 which is the external floppy, as Floppy 0 is really the CDROM. Hope that makes sense...

[Purcy]

Okay guys, I visited BIOS land and it appears that I have BIOS version 1.09 dated 2-28-2002 and Embedded Controller version 1.04. It seems from riski1's previous messages that those are not the most current versions. I have not had any problems in using this XP SP2, although the palm rest label on top shows it came with Windows 2000. Not sure what to do, if I should just let it rest. I will be upgrading next month to a 60GB HDD and 512MB RAM.

By the way, thanks Ray for the info on all this, it was easy. Wish I had a floppy drive, I'd probably will up the nerve to do the update.

[rkawakami]

My "best" T23 system, a 2647-HNU, came with BIOS 1.08a 1AET51WW (Jan 2002) and EC 1.03a. The most up-to-date T23 I have is a BIOS 1.18 1AET62WW (Jul 2004) with EC 1.04. According to IBM, the latest versions are BIOS 1.20 (just released Oct 2006) and EC 1.06a (Aug 2004) so I'm drastically out of date on some systems. Do I feel a need to update them? At this point, no, not really. All of them seem to run fine with whatever BIOS/EC combination they have. I'd have to do some research by reading the change notices for each version to see if it's something I should worry about. According to the latest BIOS update, 1.20 modified the WakeOnLAN function. Since I don't use that feature, and don't plan to, it's a non-issue for me.

(Ray goes off to read up on some of the changes in the BIOS history...)

There appears to be a couple of significant problems that are addressed by BIOS updates. As of yet, I have not seen any of them in my systems.

However, for the systems that I may be selling in the future, it would probably be useful if I at least partially update them. By that I mean upgrade to the next-to-newest BIOS version, 1.18 (looks like 1.19 didn't exist or was never released). 1.18 came out in 2004. It's had plenty of time to be used and bugs discovered. A two year lag between version updates says that it's mostly mature. If 1.20 is only supposed to fix/upgrade the WakeOnLAN feature, I'll do without it for some time and see if any new bugs are discovered.

[Purcy]

thank you for that info Ray. Before we put this subject to bed, I just have one more question. Being a newbie at floppy booting, if I should come upon a floppy drive and download the BIOS update to it, I then just have that floppy inserted in the drive when I boot the computer, correct? and I'm guessing it would ask me on the spash screen what to boot from? I am sure this is much easier than it sounds.

[rkawakami]

The easiest way to boot from the floppy is to press the F12 key when prompted to do so ("to choose temporary boot device"). The floppy is called "Removable Devices" in the resulting menu. Select it and press the Enter key.

The actual selection order of the boot device is dependant upon your BIOS settings. I believe that the default order is: floppy, hard drive, optical drive, network. This order can be changed from within the BIOS setup (Boot menu).

[Purcy]

Thank you kindly Sir

[riski1]

As far as PC Doc is concerned, you can use it to test most all of the hardware components in the system. I would at least run the "Quick Test" diagnostic set for a fast look at the system. You can run any of the tests individually. Also, if you access the F2 menu prior to executing a diag, you can set a "Pass Count" value. That causes PC Doctor to automatically run your specific test that many times. Quite useful to "burn in" a system overnight. One thing to watch out for if you use the CD-based version and you have an external floppy drive: the diskette tests will not work correctly because the program will assume the booting device is a floppy drive and not the CDROM drive. If you access the Diagnostics/Diskette Drives menu, you can run tests on Floppy 1 which is the external floppy, as Floppy 0 is really the CDROM. Hope that makes sense...

Thanks for the advice on testing...may as well check behind the scenes.

I have a floppy or DVD-Rom that will go into the UltraBay 2000 drive. What version would be better, floppy or CD from the iso file? I got both standing by...
not that I'm anxious or anything.

Too bad work interfers every day

[rkawakami]

I have a floppy or DVD-Rom that will go into the UltraBay 2000 drive. What version would be better, floppy or CD from the iso file? I got both standing by...

I find the CD-burned version easier (and MUCH faster) to load. The confusion by PC Doctor as to "floppy #0" actually being the CDROM drive doesn't bother me as I normally run the CD tests manually. Speaking of which, you should probably prepare a max'ed out CD (i.e. 700MB full) in order to completely test the drive. I think you need to burn a data disc and NOT a music disk. When you select the CDROM drive tests it prompts you to load a disk. Swap out the PC Doc disk and load up the fully-burned CD. The reason for this is that the diagnostics will look at the total number of sectors on the disk and ONLY test those sectors. if you leave the PC Doctor CD in the drive and test that, only about 4MB worth of data is being looked at. That means the laser carriage only moves about 1/4"! Same goes if you are using a DVD drive. Burn a completely full DVD and use that. When I test combo drives with both CD and DVD disks it takes about 2 hours to complete both sets.

Too bad work interfers every day

I hear that!

[riski1]

thank you for that info Ray. Before we put this subject to bed, I just have one more question. Being a newbie at floppy booting, if I should come upon a floppy drive and download the BIOS update to it, I then just have that floppy inserted in the drive when I boot the computer, correct? and I'm guessing it would ask me on the spash screen what to boot from? I am sure this is much easier than it sounds.

Beings that I've just gone thru all this, let me offer some links to get you going (may want to verify your particilar Thinkpad model):

I downloaded the Diskette versions of both the T23 BIOS and the T23 Embedded Controller to the root of a partition. Then I used these steps to build a XP diskette for each.

After you get your floppy, follow rkawakami's advice to boot them up. It was the easiest BIOS update I've been through...

except for that last beeep at shutdown.

The only reason I updated to v1.20 is that while updating from v1.09 I thought I may as well do it all. You know..."all for one and one for all" type thing. Ray has more sound advise.

[riski1]

t;]Too bad work interfers every day

I hear that!

...but I've been retired for 5 years now. Every year they call me back cause they can't keep up

Not sure I totally understand what PC Doc is all about, so I may jump right in so I can focus my curiousity to a greater level.

[rkawakami]

Not sure I totally understand what PC Doc is all about, so I may jump right in so I can focus my curiousity to a greater level.

Basically I advocate using this program because it has been approved and provided by IBM with their Thinkpads. It is a diagnostic program which is booted off floppy or CD and does not require, nor use, Windows to operate. There is a version which runs from within Windows but if you are having problems with your system and can't even boot Windows, what good is that program?

The diagnostic covers everything from the CPU to the serial port. Here's a brief listing I've got on a T23 right now:

CPU/Coprocessor
Systemboard
Video Adapter
Serial Ports
Parallel Ports
Fixed Disks
Diskette Drives
Other Devices
ZIP Drive
LS-120/240 Drive
Communicatoin
Wireless LAN
Memory Test - Full
Memory Test - Quick

There are also "interactive" tests which check the mouse (i.e. Trackpoint), the keyboard, the internal speaker, a system load test (useful for increasing the internal temperature of the laptop ), and video display. Utility programs to execute a battery run-down test, benchmark the system, run a surface scan of the hard drive as well as a full erase, are available. A very useful program in my opinion.

As I'm still writing up a section on troubleshooting for the TPFD project, I will be including a complete procedure on how to use this program. I don't have any formal documentation for this program from either IBM or PC-Doctor so I'm basically running stuff and seeing what it does.

(edit: There are some things which are NOT tested by PC Doctor: the USB ports and the PCMCIA slots are a couple that I can think of at the moment. Also, in order to FULLY test the parallel and serial ports you need to connect what's called a "loop-back" plug. The normal diagnostics test the signals up to, but not coming from, both of those ports. The job of the loop-back plugs are to connect the output pins to the input pins so that the program can make sure whatever signals are going INTO the laptop are being received correctly.)

[Purcy]

Beings that I've just gone thru all this, let me offer some links to get you going (may want to verify your particilar Thinkpad model):

I downloaded the Diskette versions of both the T23 BIOS and the T23 Embedded Controller to the root of a partition. Then I used these steps to build a XP diskette for each.

After you get your floppy, follow rkawakami's advice to boot them up. It was the easiest BIOS update I've been through...

I'm glad to hear about the ease of this process. I think I might attempt the non-diskette BIOS update that I was talking about in my other thread. I have a floppy drive on its way to me now, but the non-diskette way sounds pretty easy too. I'll remember that loud beep and black screen you pointed out, as I freak easily too when it comes to my baby here

[riski1]

Not sure I totally understand what PC Doc is all about, so I may jump right in so I can focus my curiousity to a greater level.

Being the lazy jumper, I tried to boot-up with the diskette version of PC Doc cause I had the floppy in the UltraBay 2000 and the water wasn't too deep. Got the following message:

Non-System disk or disk error
Replace and press any key when ready

As I'm still writing up a section on troubleshooting for the TPFD project, I will be including a complete procedure on how to use this program. I don't have any formal documentation for this program from either IBM or PC-Doctor so I'm basically running stuff and seeing what it does.

May I suggest you get with it...post hast Looks like instruction may be needed

PS: What's TPFD?

[riski1]

Don't know why I haven't asked this before, but what's the proper way to switch between the floppy and DVD-Rom in the UltraBay 2000?

I have been playing the cautious role by unplugging and removing the battery each time. Now it seems that this may be too much.

I just know my daughter will ask these same dumb questions...heredity

Thanks for your patience

[rkawakami]

Got the following message:

Non-System disk or disk error
Replace and press any key when ready

That basically says that the diskette was not formatted properly. If you made the set of three diskettes following the directions at IBM, you should have downloaded the three .EXE files, executed them, which presents you with directions on what to do (if I remember the procedure correctly as I have been using the CD-based version for a couple of months now). If you merely copied the three .EXE files onto blank, unformatted floppy disks, then that's the reason why you got that message.

PS: What's TPFD?

Sorry, I usually don't use acronyms without first explaining what there are. TPFD="ThinkPad For Dummies". It's a "book" project some of us here at thinkpads.com are working on (as time permits) which loosely follows the great series of books by Wiley & Sons. (please don't sue us!)

Don't know why I haven't asked this before, but what's the proper way to switch between the floppy and DVD-Rom in the UltraBay 2000?

Removing the battery is not necessary. I normaly just shutdown Windows, swap the Ultrabay drives, then power back up. There is also a utility that can do this or you may be able to use Windows Unplug or Eject Hardware wizard.

[riski1]

PS: What's TPFD?

Sorry, I usually don't use acronyms without first explaining what there are. TPFD="ThinkPad For Dummies". It's a "book" project some of us here at thinkpads.com are working on (as time permits) which loosely follows the great series of books by Wiley & Sons. (please don't sue us!)

If the shoe fits...

RJ smiles at the perfect fit

Removing the battery is not necessary. I normaly just shutdown Windows, swap the Ultrabay drives, then power back up. There is also a utility that can do this or you may be able to use Windows Unplug or Eject Hardware wizard.

I just knew there had to be an easier way. I went all over the IBM site and all I could find was a little movie on how to remove/install the drives. No mention made with respect to power or OS condition.

[Purcy]

I was also told all I had to do to swap the drives in the Ultrabay was to eject the one in there using the Safely Remove Hardware icon in the lower right corner, then insert the new drive.

By the way Ray, hope that book TPFD's comes to completion soon, I need it. I'll probably be dumb for a while but I'd love to have one.

[riski1]

I'll keep that thought in mind Purcy.

Just got my new HDD, so I'll be loading XP Pro as soon as my wife's birthday celebration has come to an end.

I'm really liking this Thinkpad and the support here. I wish I was keeping it and donating to my oldest at school

AGHH, almost forgot...got the PC Doctor to work from floppy. Ran the quick test and all passed. Now if I could only find that book to help me