T30 motherboard problem?

[darkdragoon]

My T30 was working fine until early this week it wouldnt bootup.
I try to press down the power button a few times and it did work again. However, today when I press down the power button, my T30 won't boot on POST/BIOS at all no matter how many times I press the power button.

Initally the usual light indicators come on such as the Power light except for the HD light, and the DVD drive light. Windows does not start, the screen is blank with some backlight (ghost image)?

I try to take out the CMOS battery hoping it would give me the CMOS error, but with no luck.
Re-plug most of the hardware that I could, HD, RAM, PCI cards.
Hook it up to an external monitor and there was no signal.

I'm suspecting if this is the motherboard problem.

[rkawakami]

Welcome to thinkpads.com!

I do not have a T30 but I know that there is an issue with one of the memory slots being defective. Use the Search link at the top of this page. Try "t30 memory problem" or "t30 won't boot". Click the "search for all terms" button and select the T2x/T30 forum.

The standard advice to troubleshoot this problem is to remove all hardware except for a single memory module. This means hard drive, Ultrabay drive, ethernet, modem, wireless, PCMCIA, USB, etc. Try to boot the system. Even with the hard drive removed you should still be able to see the IBM splash screen or access the BIOS setup screen. If it does not work, move the memory module to the other slot and try again. I believe that the memory problem is only with one of the slots, but not sure which one it is. If the laptop does not boot with the memory module in either slot, try a second module if you have one. If the laptop normally has two memory modules, be sure to test each one this way. If the laptop does not boot with a single memory module in either slot, then you could have a power problem on the motherboard. (Or bad memory modules. Or loose processor. Or many other things...)

If you can get the system to boot with one or both memory modules, then start replacing one piece of hardware at a time and re-booting. You may get to the point where the laptop does not boot anymore. The last piece of hardware you installed may be the problem.

[darkdragoon]

Thank you for the warm welcome and the most detail in explaination. I ran search and did come across the bad RAM slot thing. I will give it a go and see what happens.

[darkdragoon]

I removed all hardware as you have said, tested with just one memory module on both slot, it wouldnt boot. I then use a second memory module that I had and tested on both slot as well. The sucker still wouldnt boot.

I even go as far as booting it with no memory module at all, hoping I would get an error. But to the best of my luck, still the ghost image on screen.

Well, I guess I need a new motherboard right?

One more question here. If I had to replace the motherboard, do I need to reset CMOS password? Would all hardware recognize the new motherboard especially the setting that lies within the OS's registry of the HD?

[rkawakami]

Wait... You see a "ghost" image on the screen? Does it look like it's the normal image you should be seeing but not "bright" or lit up? And if you re-install your hard drive and memory, can you see Windows load correctly? If those answers are "YES", then what you appear to have is a problem with the LCD backlight not turning on. I know you said earlier that you tried an external monitor, but you may also have to use the Fn+F7 key combination to activate the external VGA port if you don't have the monitor connected prior to booting the system.

[darkdragoon]

I think I might have misleaded you Ray, it might not be the ghost image cause all I see is a blank (black) screen with backlights, and the black screen gradually turns white with a few colour lines running within.

I can almost certain that its not booting, no POST, no Think Pad splash screen, cannot enter BIOS setup.

[rkawakami]

Okay, then what you are describing is not a simple problem with the backlight.

[darkdragoon]

Thanks for your help Ray, kinda narrow it down to the point that I need a new motherboard now.

[vlyne]

all I see is a blank (black) screen with backlights, and the black screen gradually turns white with a few colour lines running within.

But, you still don't get anything at all on the external monitor with the Fn+F7 combination?! That's really weird! The fact that you don't get any beeps when there is no memory in the slot suggests MB/Bios problems. Before you replace the motherboard try reseating the CPU, and MB connectors and check for possible shorted pins in external ports and check the screen switch.
Good Luck!

[darkdragoon]

Hi vlyne,

I was not able to use the external monitor with the Fn+F7 combination because it wouldnt POST.
On the external montior it shows no signal and powered off itself.
But yes, no beeps with no memory modules, and no errror without CMOS battery would suggest motherboard failure at most.

I will try to reseat CPU and check for connetions again.

Thanks

[darkdragoon]

I took apart the T30 I notice something fishy about the CPU.
There seems to be a pile of black substance on the side of CPU.
It doesnt have the obvious burnt mark tho.

I really have no clue what a burnt CPU looks like.

[tfflivemb2]

But yes, no beeps with no memory modules, and no errror without CMOS battery would suggest motherboard failure at most.

For the record, it isn't going to boot without atleast one memory module installed.

Can you post a pic of the black stuff on the side?

[darkdragoon]

hi tfflivemb2. Thanks for the note, but the thing is I switched both memory module (256MB) around both slots but I'm still getting nothing from it. No intial POST, only a blank screen with backlights.

I have a very poor quality phonecam, but here is a photo I found on the web that looks very close to what the black stuff that's on my CPU, except for the thermal compound residue. Mine's cleaned.

http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/13347.jpg

[vlyne]

I assume you're referring to the "stuff" around the base of the heat pad. I think that's just the epoxy to secure the heat pad to the CPU. I doubt that the CPU is "burnt out" and there's probably no reliable way to tell by looking at it. So, the next step is to reseat the CPU - unlock the screw to the right, lift out CPU, inspect CPU and socket, carefully put back and tighten down again. Check all other connectors, look for burnt out capacitors, check fuses, pins of trays for removable devices, reassemble and push the powerbutton, and....ta da!....

[darkdragoon]

vlyne,

I guess you are right. I took the CPU out and there's no burnt mark whatsoever or even under the socket. It looks fairly new to me.

My next move would be to remove what you have said and try to reassemble it back with my fingers crossed.

I would say, replacing the mobo would be the last resort.

[darkdragoon]

I've stripped the machine down to the point that I've noticed there's a few rusted little pin holes underneath the Hard disk drive slot. Would that be the cause?

A side note to what it seems, the mobo is a doubledecker, I would have to peak in between to see if anything was wrong.

[vlyne]

I've stripped the machine down to the point that I've noticed there's a few rusted little pin holes underneath the Hard disk drive slot. Would that be the cause?

Probably vent holes but are you serious about the rust?? If it is rust, you may have some serious corrosion problems elsewhere! You may be wasting your time and effort if that's the case.

[darkdragoon]

vlyne,

I don't think its vent hole but most likely its the other side of the transistor's pin or some sort.

It wasn't that rusty, but surely wasn't as shinny as the rest of them. I was able to remove a small volume of it with lighter oil fluid.

[vlyne]

I don't think its vent hole but most likely its the other side of the transistor's pin or some sort.

It wasn't that rusty, but surely wasn't as shinny as the rest of them. I was able to remove a small volume of it with lighter oil fluid.

I'm flying blind here. It may be solder flux but if you are able to dissolve it off then it's some sort of grease. Hard to say without seeing it. It could some kind of burnt mark?? Who knows. You're in the best position to judge.

[darkdragoon]

vlyne,

On the other side of the exact same spot was actually the memory module slot.

It wasn't burnt, but indeed was a little rusted.

Again, thanks for the input.

[vlyne]

It wasn't burnt, but indeed was a little rusted.

Well, that's a worry but hopefully the rust is isolated?. Time to get out the contact cleaner but use only the minimal amount and keep the stuff away from plastic bits (many years ago, I cleant a keyboard with the stuff and watched in horror as keys started randomly popping off!). Try to trace where the corrosive fluid has come from and gone to. The problems you were having with weird screens etc suggests the memory slot isn't the only issue.

If you reach the end of your patience then: What the heck!... If you are going to ditch the MB might as well take it apart and give it a soak with the contact cleaner (after of course taking off the CMOS battery). Keep it off the CPU and make sure it is thoroughly dry before trying to apply any power to it.
Cheers

[darkdragoon]

oh my, oh my. Guess what just happened.

I put everything back in place (without the keyboard benzel) and it booted up.

All I did was to put every piece of hardware back in place, reconnect all the plugs and add new thermal compound.

But the thing is I turn it off, press the power button again, it wouldnt boot. I then replug the A/C adaptor, replug the keyboard and it bootup again.

Without the keyboard benzel attached, I check if the RAM's reading was right (I had 2X256MB on both slot) and it did read 512MB.

I've noticed intially when I press the power button, if the HD indicator lite among with the rest it will boot, on the other hand if the HD indicator did not lite, it wont.

I've also noticed reseated the keyboard would usually lead to a bootup screen. I have to say, the keys on the keyboard are a little lose. I mean I can tell everytime I strike on each key, it made that excessive sound.

[darkdragoon]

My T30 finally works again(I'm typing this post with my T30), it's like it has a mind of his own.

Now, I'm beginning to think it has nothing to do with the mobo nor the CMOS battery.

[vlyne]

I've also noticed reseated the keyboard would usually lead to a bootup screen. I have to say, the keys on the keyboard are a little lose. I mean I can tell everytime I strike on each key, it made that excessive sound.

Congratulations! and welcome to the Back from the Dead Club! At least you know how to get it going again if it does misbehave. Do you have a port replicator? If so, you can use it to test whether or not the keyboard is the problem. Now if you can just keep those corrosive fluids from getting into your laptop...

[darkdragoon]

vlyne,

Thank you. I just power up the sucker this morning and it didnt boot...again. Pressed the power button a few times with no luck. I then unplug the A/C adaptor, replug it again. I can feel the fan working and it did boot.

I also tried it with the battery attached. Pressed on the power button and it wont go. I finally get it to work after a few more presses.

Now this is really strange.

I don't have a port replicator with me at this moment but I can hook up to an external keyboard and see.

Thanks for the help.

[vlyne]

Darkdragoon, I forgot to tell you about the special characteristics of those laptop that return from the dead but you seem to have discovered this yourself

In following a number of posts on the '30 series, it seems like there's a problem associated with getting the volatile CMOS to fire up the laptop. A few things that you might try to isolate the problem:

1) The port replicator can be used to start up the laptop without (or with) the normal keyboard attached. It's meant to test the keyboard connection to the MB rather than the keyboard itself. In getting the laptop to boot by taking the keyboard off and putting it back on you may be flexing the MB and triggering an intermittent device to make contact.

2) Try (gently) lifting the laptop from each of the corners in turn.

3) Take off CMOS battery and try to start without CMOS battery. After taking CMOS battery off, drain the residual charge by repeatedly pressing power button without any power (A/C, battery) attached. Reattach power and try to boot. You will be asked to reset date/time if you succeeded in booting.

4) Take off main battery and try with A/C alone.

5) Take off main battery, empty residual charge and try again in various combinations of main battery and A/C

If you succeed with any of these, try to see if you can repeat the success.

Good Luck!

[darkdragoon]

vlyne

I think you are right, I took out the CMOS battery and it boot right up. I'm gonna try a few more times today.

But if its all because of a poor CMOS battery, wouldnt I get an error upon POST?

[vlyne]

Darkdragoon,

OK, that's a good start. I wish it were as simple as a bad CMOS battery but unfortunately experience suggests it's not that simple. I hope someone does come up with a good explanation as I'm still at a loss to explain why it should work. What happens I think is that when the volatile CMOS is emptied the non-volatile BIOS takes over and it seems to have a greater "ability" to get things going. I'm not sure upgrading the BIOS helps but it's best not to try this untill you're very very sure the system won't crash on you while the BIOS is being flashed. I'm guessing that the volatile CMOS does a quick check of the system before it boots up and if it doesn't detect a device it gives up (in your case it appears as if the HD is the problem). The detection is probably via a voltage signal which if weak can make a difference between a start or non-start. Refreshing the system with a new CMOS battery won't hurt - worth a try tho'.

[darkdragoon]

vlyne,

LOL, indeed its going to be a myth for a very long time. I have the latest BIOS flashed days ago so I guess that isnt really going to help.

Oh, and why would you suggest its the HD problem?

I like to point out during a few occasions, I drain the battery to the point where the machine shut down itself and that would almost cause the problem for not booting up.

Also the sucker will not bootup after I power down for a few minutes, but removing the CMOS battery works like a charm.

[danage]

hello darkdragoon!
i'm almost sorry i read your post only after you took your t30 all the way apart and put it back together. i have a problem similar to yours and just a few days ago discovered how to fix it.

it is memory-related. usually only one of the two RAM slots is broken, but as bad luck sometimes has it, both of mine are broken. it is a contact problem. so at first i tried fixing it by sticking thick pieces of paper between the memory module and the slot cover, to press the module down into the slot. it came a point where that wouldnt work anymore.

seemingly out of options, i tried fondling with the holding mechanism. take a look at yours, the little arms that hold the module in place consist of plastics. below it is a metal holder that the module is pressed against by the arms.

first, i tried bending the metal upwards so that the pressure the arm would apply would be stronger. this made the error come up even more often. i thought i was out of options so i tried bending them down next. it worked. the machine OCCASIONALLY freezes/doesn't boot up, but much much less than before.

so try it yourself: take a small, flat head screwdriver and gently position it between the plastic and the metal "arms", then carefully apply pressure downwards. you can get a good hold by laying the screwdriver "rod" on the corner of the slot. i'm cautioning you to be careful because underneath the arms you will find tiny, delicate semiconductors that could easily be damaged if you slip.

i pressed mine down quite far, so now they stay at a position where the end of the metal arm rests about one millimeter below the plastic arm. on both sides, of course.

give it a shot, you might just revive your T30! good luck