T40 Restore problem

[toothandnail]

A while ago I purchased a second hand T40. Nice machine, somewhat upgraded (768MB RAM, 80 GB hard drive, faster CPU and an updated wireless card). It was missing the proper factory restore Predesktop area.

With some help from a forum member, I got a copy of the restore disks and just tried them on another (blank) 80GB drive. Everything seemed to go as it should - first the Predesktop area was installed, then the system went through a factory restore. After a lot of unzipping of files, it prompted me to removed all CDs and rebooted.

That's where the problem is - after the reboot, I get a blinking cursor, a very brief flash of hard drive activity, then nothing. No errors about missing operating systems or anything like that, just no boot either.

I can use the Access IBM button to pull up the utilities and diagnotics, all of which seem fine, but I cannot boot the system into XP. Looking at the drive from a CD boot with Dfsee, I see a single FAT32 partition, all of which seems fine. But I'm stuck. I will see if I can dig out a Win98 startup disk and boot from that (I have a USB floppy that I should be able to boot from) so I can at least look at the contents of the hard drive, but I have no idea what the problem could be, or how to go about solving it.

Has anyone seen this sort of problem using the factory restore? Any clues as to how I fix it? Any help gratefully recieved!

paul.

[Danny Manabat]

you may have done it properly but not yet complete.

after the factory restore has completed, where all cd's have been read,

1. the computer restarts,

2. wait for the ibm screen to come out,

3. then press the Access IBM button,

4. the rescue and recovery screen comes out,

5. look for "restore factory contents" (or similar) on the left side,

6. click it.

7. the factory restore should start.

update us what happens. good luck!

[smugiri]

I'm glad to see that you are making progress. I had the same problem with these disks.


Can I suggest something you try BEFORE you try a factory install?

The last step might be pretty simple to fix: if you had an OS installed before (which I assume you did), the recovery process does not install a boot sector in some circumstances which might be the problem here.

Try this: you will need a Windows XP boot disk though (you can use any as you do not need the key). The recovery CDs will not work for this. Any WinXP disk will though.


Boot from the Win XP install CD

Go through all the prompts (F8 blah blah blah), choose the repair option (rather than new install) and go into your restore installation

At the prompt, type

fixmbr

then

fixboot

Then reboot and see what happens. If all went well, the install should be working.

[GomJabbar]

I have a T42, which is a little different in this respect (so possibly what I say here will not work for you). First check the Predesktop Area security setting in the BIOS - it should be set to Normal. I suggest you try the Disks a second time. If you get the blinking curser again, then try Danny Manabat's suggestion.

EDIT: I see smugiri posted while I was composing this. Note that restoring factory contents takes several reboots before Windows is actually installed. What he wrote will not work in your situation where you start with a blank hard drive and use the Recovery Discs.

[Danny Manabat]

oops, my answer wasn't that clear. sorry.

i was referring to this part of your story -

"With some help from a forum member, I got a copy of the restore disks and just tried them on another (blank) 80GB drive. Everything seemed to go as it should - first the Predesktop area was installed, then the system went through a factory restore. After a lot of unzipping of files, it prompted me to removed all CDs and rebooted.

That's where the problem is - after the reboot, I get a blinking cursor, a very brief flash of hard drive activity, then nothing. No errors about missing operating systems or anything like that, just no boot either. "

[toothandnail]

you may have done it properly but not yet complete.

<snip>

5. look for "restore factory contents" (or similar) on the left side,

6. click it.

7. the factory restore should start.

update us what happens. good luck!

I did end up trying that, though from looking at the progress earlier, I thought it had completed both steps.

Unfortunately, pulling up the 'restore factory contents' goes through the same process and ends in the same place.

Since my original message, I found an old Win98 CD. Booted from it and had a look at the drive. Apart from a complete lack of understanding of the size of the drive, Win98 FDISK reported no problems - the partition appeared correct and was marked as active. Doing a 'dir c:' also reported all the files I would expect to see. Still no boot though.

paul.

[smugiri]

you may have done it properly but not yet complete.

<snip>

5. look for "restore factory contents" (or similar) on the left side,

6. click it.

7. the factory restore should start.

update us what happens. good luck!

I did end up trying that, though from looking at the progress earlier, I thought it had completed both steps.

Unfortunately, pulling up the 'restore factory contents' goes through the same process and ends in the same place.

Since my original message, I found an old Win98 CD. Booted from it and had a look at the drive. Apart from a complete lack of understanding of the size of the drive, Win98 FDISK reported no problems - the partition appeared correct and was marked as active. Doing a 'dir c:' also reported all the files I would expect to see. Still no boot though.

paul.

Try re-installing the MBR using fixmbr/fixboot, it takes a couple of minutes and cannot possibly hurt.

[toothandnail]

I'm glad to see that you are making progress. I had the same problem with these disks.

I've been meaning to send you some mail. Initially I had some problems getting a clean burn on the isos (the CDRW-DVD unit in the T40 may be a bit touchy...). Anyhow, finally got something that seems to work...

Can I suggest something you try BEFORE you try a factory install?

The last step might be pretty simple to fix: if you had an OS installed before (which I assume you did), the recovery process does not install a boot sector in some circumstances which might be the problem here.

I'm certainly open to suggestions... The symptoms I'm seeing could well be down to lack of a boot sector. Its certainly odd that there is no error - I would have expected a 'missing operating system' type error, but I'm getting nothing at all.

You obviously don't understand the depths of my paranoia when it comes to XP though I spend a lot of my time fixing the blasted thing and have seen it come up with some quite bizare problems (where often Win2K will install and work without problems). As a result of that paranoia, I used a brand new 80 GB drive - didn't partition or format it. I was not prepared to risk a working install to this sort of experimentation. Glad I didn't now too...

Try this: you will need a Windows XP boot disk though (you can use any as you do not need the key). The recovery CDs will not work for this. Any WinXP disk will though.

Boot from the Win XP install CD

Go through all the prompts (F8 blah blah blah), choose the repair option (rather than new install) and go into your restore installation

At the prompt, type

fixmbr

then

fixboot

Then reboot and see what happens. If all went well, the install should be working.

Hmm. Sounds like it might be worth doing even with a previsously bare drive. I don't currently have a general purpose XP disk (was going to build one from the install once I'd got it up and running). I might even try that using one of my 2K CDs.

I'll let you know if that works...

paul

[smugiri]

I'm glad to see that you are making progress. I had the same problem with these disks.

I've been meaning to send you some mail. Initially I had some problems getting a clean burn on the isos (the CDRW-DVD unit in the T40 may be a bit touchy...). Anyhow, finally got something that seems to work...

Can I suggest something you try BEFORE you try a factory install?

The last step might be pretty simple to fix: if you had an OS installed before (which I assume you did), the recovery process does not install a boot sector in some circumstances which might be the problem here.

I'm certainly open to suggestions... The symptoms I'm seeing could well be down to lack of a boot sector. Its certainly odd that there is no error - I would have expected a 'missing operating system' type error, but I'm getting nothing at all.

You obviously don't understand the depths of my paranoia when it comes to XP though I spend a lot of my time fixing the blasted thing and have seen it come up with some quite bizare problems (where often Win2K will install and work without problems). As a result of that paranoia, I used a brand new 80 GB drive - didn't partition or format it. I was not prepared to risk a working install to this sort of experimentation. Glad I didn't now too...

Try this: you will need a Windows XP boot disk though (you can use any as you do not need the key). The recovery CDs will not work for this. Any WinXP disk will though.

Boot from the Win XP install CD

Go through all the prompts (F8 blah blah blah), choose the repair option (rather than new install) and go into your restore installation

At the prompt, type

fixmbr

then

fixboot

Then reboot and see what happens. If all went well, the install should be working.

Hmm. Sounds like it might be worth doing even with a previsously bare drive. I don't currently have a general purpose XP disk (was going to build one from the install once I'd got it up and running). I might even try that using one of my 2K CDs.

I'll let you know if that works...

paul

Win 2k CDs might not work. I would use Win XP just to be safe.

Also, the disks you build from the IBM recovery set use Win 98 and not Win XP as the OS so those would not work either.

Some thoughts on the issues you have:

the fact that you see the drive flash combined with the fact that there is no "No operating system" found message suggest that the boot record is OK but the partition that it points to may not be marked as active/may not have a partition boot sector (hence no messages).

fixmbr fixes the boot record while fixboot writes a partition boot sector to the system partition

[toothandnail]

I have a T42, which is a little different in this respect (so possibly what I say here will not work for you). First check the Predesktop Area security setting in the BIOS - it should be set to Normal. I suggest you try the Disks a second time. If you get the blinking curser again, then try Danny Manabat's suggestion.

Hmm. I'm currently back to blank, unpartitioned, unformatted drive. But I did have a look at the Predesktop Area in BIOS and I think it was set to Secure. I'll try again and make sure it is set to Normal before going through the full restore. Thanks for the suggestion.

EDIT: I see smugiri posted while I was composing this. Note that restoring factory contents takes several reboots before Windows is actually installed. What he wrote will not work in your situation where you start with a blank hard drive and use the Recovery Discs.

I think you're correct in that. However, I'm wondering if running that process after the restore has been completed and before the system tries to reboot may be worth a shot.

I guess its possible I still haven't got a good enough copy of the CD and something is corrupt on it, but the lack of any errors makes me think that is not the case. I guess if all else fails I may try burning the isos again to yet another drive and see if that makes any difference.

paul.

[smugiri]

I have a T42, which is a little different in this respect (so possibly what I say here will not work for you). First check the Predesktop Area security setting in the BIOS - it should be set to Normal. I suggest you try the Disks a second time. If you get the blinking curser again, then try Danny Manabat's suggestion.

Hmm. I'm currently back to blank, unpartitioned, unformatted drive. But I did have a look at the Predesktop Area in BIOS and I think it was set to Secure. I'll try again and make sure it is set to Normal before going through the full restore. Thanks for the suggestion.

EDIT: I see smugiri posted while I was composing this. Note that restoring factory contents takes several reboots before Windows is actually installed. What he wrote will not work in your situation where you start with a blank hard drive and use the Recovery Discs.

I think you're correct in that. However, I'm wondering if running that process after the restore has been completed and before the system tries to reboot may be worth a shot.

I guess its possible I still haven't got a good enough copy of the CD and something is corrupt on it, but the lack of any errors makes me think that is not the case. I guess if all else fails I may try burning the isos again to yet another drive and see if that makes any difference.

paul.

Paul/GomJabber

I mentioned this before: I sent the disk images to Paul and I have had EXACTLY the same problem over and over with 4 drive upgrades in my T40p, the last of which was move to a completely new and unused "blank" 100GB drive this last spring.

The easy fix was to do a fixmbr/fixboot and this worked every time.

All I am arguing is that it might be worth taking 5 minutes or so to try this before burning new disks or returning the HDD or whatever since I have used this fix with 100% success every single time.

Note from Moderator: Trim your quotes, or I'll trim them for you.

[toothandnail]

I mentioned this before: I sent the disk images to Paul and I have had EXACTLY the same problem over and over with 4 drive upgrades in my T40p, the last of which was move to a completely new and unused "blank" 100GB drive this last spring.

The easy fix was to do a fixmbr/fixboot and this worked every time.

All I am arguing is that it might be worth taking 5 minutes or so to try this before burning new disks or returning the HDD or whatever since I have used this fix with 100% success every single time.

Sounds good to me. As soon as I can lay my hands on an generic XP CD, I'll give it a go. Let you know how it goes.

BTW, I wasn't expecting to be able to create an XP disk direct from the recovery media - was hoping I would be able to follow the guide I found mentioned on the forums to creating one after the install was complete and running. That last part is the problem at the moment...

paul.

[GomJabbar]

@smugiri

I thought you didn't read the OP's post carefully, and didn't realize he was starting with a blank hard drive. If you say your method works on a blank hard drive using the Product Recovery Discs after only one reboot, who am I to dispute that? Just didn't seem like it could work to me. I'll be interested to hear the OP's result.

I hope that we are not confusing terms here. I am talking about the Product Recovery Disc set - the same one you would buy from Lenovo. Restoring a Rescue and Recovery backup is a different animal.

[toothandnail]

@smugiri

I hope that we are not confusing terms here. I am talking about the Product Recovery Disc set - the same one you would buy from Lenovo. Restoring a Rescue and Recovery backup is a different animal.

smugiri was the gentleman who was able to supply me with copies of the recovery disks (which I haven't been able to get from IBM or Lenovo).

I'll let you know how his suggestions go - looks like I've managed to locate a copy of an XP boot CD to try, so hopefully I'll be able to try within the next 24 hours or so. Hope it works....

paul.

[toothandnail]

Sorry to be so slow following this up - ended up having more trouble than I expected getting an XP CD to use. Anyhow, finally....

I started with the same Seagate 5400.3 disk, blanked. The process was slightly different - after booting from the first CD, it only prompted me for the second CD, then wanted the first one again. Fired up and spent quite a lot of time unzipping things, went through all 4 CDs, then prompted me to remove all CDs and press enter to reboot.

I put in the XP CD and let the machine reboot. It completely ignored the CD, booted from the hard drive and, after a good deal of mucking around, completed the install.

I have no idea why it worked this time, but I'm glad to say that it has done so without any visible problems. It would be good to know why it worked this time and not the first though...

I've still got to install SP2, but I think I might shrink the partition first, while everything is nice and compact...

Anyhow, thanks for the help...

paul.

[Roocer]

I'm glad to see that you are making progress. I had the same problem with these disks.


Can I suggest something you try BEFORE you try a factory install?

The last step might be pretty simple to fix: if you had an OS installed before (which I assume you did), the recovery process does not install a boot sector in some circumstances which might be the problem here.

Try this: you will need a Windows XP boot disk though (you can use any as you do not need the key). The recovery CDs will not work for this. Any WinXP disk will though.


Boot from the Win XP install CD

Go through all the prompts (F8 blah blah blah), choose the repair option (rather than new install) and go into your restore installation

At the prompt, type

fixmbr

then

fixboot

Then reboot and see what happens. If all went well, the install should be working.

Dear smugiri,

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I had the exact same problem with the blinking cursor on my T41, I ran your solution yesterday and it worked like a charm!

You saved me a lot of money and a lot of headache. I now have a working ThinkPad. Thanks so much!

[BobA]

Also thanks smugiri - This worked fine for me.

I'd had this problem for months and didn't discover your solution until tonight (not sure why I hadn't found it before).

This needs to be added to a sticky someplace ..

Also, thanks to all the folks on this forum .. my number one help for Thinkpad problems.