R50 Display Freezes

[phool@round]

I have an R50 with the ATI 9000 that freezes the video when pressure is applied to the keypad. I believe what's causing it is the logic board flexing specifically where the video chip is mounted. The screen stays on but the cursor will freeze and the hard drive stops. Nothing from that point functions other than the power button. The laptop is out of warranty. Anyone have any suggestions or similar problems and if so what was the fix? I am very capable of fixing electronics but this one is an ask before I leap problem.

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

[dsigma6]

I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt, but how hard are you pushing on the keyboard?

this one is an ask before I leap problem.

I admire your patience. I'd more quickly end up with a broken laptop.

[phool@round]

Sometimes it is merely the weight of my palms as I type. I dare not pick the laptop up while running. It's a bit of a beast with the extended battery, 15" LCD and plastic housing. I've had the logic board out several times to look at it under a magnifiying lamp, to see if there is anything that looks obvious like a crack in the PCB or burned trace. Nothing so far. I've even touched it up with a precision soldering iron at low heat to be sure every component is soldered to it's pads. (Micro components too.) If it is not the video chip then it would be the contoller chip that sits near it and in the "flex" area of the PCB. The controller sits right under the wireless lan card. The fact that all functions stop to include the the screen not refreshing but still lit and completly un-distorted leads me to think it's one of the two. Since both chips are raised and the only tension that holds them on the board is a tiny dab of solder at each pin makes me think a hot air resolder station is just the right tool. I'm just wondering out loud. I've been doing this type of repair work as a hobby (hate to see good tech go bad) for a long time. This one has me puzzled. Since the board is housed in plastic instead of glass or composite it will always have a tendancy to flex no matter how tight the component/board mounts are. Kind of sad. This baby has all the bells and whistles and they all work when not disturbed. Please understand that I have done many shade tree repairs on older ThinkPads with 100% success? This one is a puzzle without a scope or hot air re-soldering station. I'm not primative, just fruggle. It's shown me it works. This laptop is exhibiting the same problem as G3/4 iBooks without the screen artifacts. That's a dead give-away that it's the video chip breaking an interconnect. When this freezes it just stops refreshing, all the icons or page I have up stay perfect, undistorted. The cursor doesn't function, the hard drive stops spinning.

[Bassmandan]

I'm having a similar problem with my R40. It seems as if applying pressure around the "qwerty" region of the keyboard will cause freeze/screen lock up. When this happens, the screen might show the last frame, or randomly move between a couple grey/black screens seeming to change when the computer is tapped. It started off happening rarely, with increased frequency up to the point where the computer is now useless.
My first thoughts as well were a short somewhere in the video processing... But Here's another interesting tidbit. If the machine is cold, it will boot and stay on for a minute or two. After this if it freezes and I immediately restart, the computer will freeze midboot. I've also noticed that my fan control seems botched. I removed the keyboard and directed a small desk fan towards the fan/heatsink area for the CPU, and this seems to gain me a few minutes here and there, but the screen will still eventually freeze and kill the computer.
Any ideas???

[phool@round]

Bassmandan,

It sounds like it might be related. I know that T43 boards will fit in my R50 without any modification. I still have not isolated the exact problem on mine but a good hot air rework station might be in order to touch up hard to get to connections. I have use for it with my iBook that has similar, even more obvious video chip problems. There are alot of them for sale on Ebay. Apple knows about the problem and will replace the board for free twice. That board is about a quarter the size of my R50's size. It would be nice would be if the problem is addressed instead of offering replacements with the same configuration that will eventually fail again.

I think over time, more TP users are going to see this problem crop up, as their machines age. Anything that is going to generate millions of cycles a second is bound to get affected by heat and being that a laptop has little room to vent heat I can almost bet on it.

I'd like to keep this thread open for awhile, maybe IBM will one day address it by adding a replaceable video card not unlike the wireless network cards they use now. It would be nice to upgrade our machines as well with the heavy requirments Vista will place on them. Maybe it costs more to solder a socket on than a chip? I'd pay for it. If a desktop can be modular why can't a laptop? I think some of the higher end Asus laptops do offer video cards that are socketed much like RAM and Network cards. I read about a company that allows you to build your laptop from components you choose. Don't remember the name, it's been awhile.

[vlyne]

I think over time, more TP users are going to see this problem crop up, as their machines age. Anything that is going to generate millions of cycles a second is bound to get affected by heat and being that a laptop has little room to vent heat I can almost bet on it.

And, it seems you would be right as this problem seems to afflict the T42 (ATI 9600 chip?) and as Bassmandan notes the R40. I have an R40 with similar symptoms. Check this thread for the T42 Display Problem. Apparently there is a fix for the problem.

As for getting IBM to something about older machines that are out of warranty, I wouldn't bet on that one.
Cheers

[mmmkay]

Heh, both of my R40s have crashed when cold too. Maybe third one lucky?

[phool@round]

Excellent work vlyne~!!!! You've uncoverd exactly what I was looking for! I searched high and low and never would have looked for BSOD to uncover so many other users with the same issue. Mine never displayed that symtom. Granted that some are attributing the issue to video drivers but more than likely they are experiencing the start of the decoupling, before there is actually a disconnect. Might be a weakening of or a grounding of signal that displays the driver issue. The other posters are right on target, loss of video or black screen. I found that if I slightly warp my laptop I actually regain the video back albeit with no functioning of the keypad, mouse, hard drive, etc.. I think the primary issue is the "amount" of solder material versus the number of interconnects. It appears minuscule. The interconnects or legs (wire) that exit the video chip are about the diameter of a human hair maybe even thinner. I have the video chip off my iBook (same issue) and the amount of solder per each leg is very, very tiny. Apply a force, enough to deflect the board a millimeter and voila', a faulty connection. The heat also contributes, with no active cooling it could in effect de-solder over time along with warp and laptop flex during usage.

To clarify a point vlyne, I would like to see "future" TPads with a changeabe video card. It's not possible with current or older generation PCB's. I fully agree with you.

mmmkay, I think your in the same boat 2 times more than I. I think another R40 would make 3 times more than I........ I actually have to turn mine on several times before I get it to boot. That tells me the chip is deflecting as it heats up. Eventually it "makes" every connection. These chips even when they don't post to the screen still have current running through them. They get very hot in a matter of one minute. I know, I've used my "finger" temp probe.