Vista on T60p -- a mini-review.

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ldoogy
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Vista on T60p -- a mini-review.

#1 Post by ldoogy » Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:28 pm

Hi All,

For what it's worth, I thought I'd document some of my experiences with setting up Windows Vista (final version) on my new T60p (2613LQU). There are already a couple of such reviews available online, but perhaps I can add something to that.

I started out by deleting Lenovo's predektop area. Sorry, but I want those extra 4.5GB to myself... That's done by disabling the predesktop area in the BIOS, and then telling the Vista setup that I wanted to delete the two partitions and create one big one to put Vista in. The setup took about 30 minutes and went without a hitch.

--- Devices ---

First of all, Vista did a great job recognizing hardware, especially considering it's a laptop. Let's see: Ethernet, Modem, Bluetooth, WiFi (I have the Intel card), Infrared, Battery and power management stuff (including closing the lid, etc), USB, audio, DVD burner. It also KIND OF recognized my display adapter (enoguh to make the system usable, read below).

Two devices that weren't recognized are the fingerprint reader, and my Cingular WWAN card. Not sure what to do about the fingerprint reader (maybe I'll dare to try and install the XP software for it), but I think I'm on the right track for getting the Cingular stuff to work. I downloaded a program called 3G Watcher from Sierra Wireless. I hacked their INF file to include my device's ID and point it to the right device (the Cingular card is called Sierra Wireless MC8765). The setup went through, and I now see that thing in the device manager. Trouble is that it's deactivated (it's LED is off), and I have no idea how to turn it on without Lenovo's wireless manager program. The 3G Watcher program doesn't communicate with it at this point.

I'll post an update as soon as I manage to get that working. Another thing I haven't tried is to just install Cingular's program from Lenovo (not sure it's on the website??). The thing is that the Sierra Wireless drivers are new and they have explicit Vista versions. Pretty sure the Cingular build is just for XP at this point.

Another thing that obviously doesn't work out of the box is the whole hard drive protection mechanism the T60 has. Again, it's possible that the XP version of that software would run on Vista, but I haven't tried.

--- Power Management Features ---

As I said, Vista recognized the power management hardware in the T60p. It sees the battery, and whether the system's plugged in or not, etc. It also let's you configure power schemes, etc. Still, it's not even close to Lenovo's stuff. You don't know how many watts you're burning, and I haven't even found a way to control stuff such as CPU speeds per power scheme.

--- ATI FireGL Adventures ---

During the installation, Vista recognized my ATI FireGL 5200 as a "Standard VGA Adapter", but it set it to the correct screen resolution and enabled some 2D acceleration. This is fine for most desktop work, but it's disappointing because it means that Aero wouldn't work, even though the hardware should be more than capable of supporting it.

From there I went to download the ATI Catalyst driver, thinking maybe it'll help (Lenovo's site appears to have nothing for Vista at the moment). Unsurprisingly, ATI's setup didn't find my FireGL. Looking through their INF file, I saw that the device identifier of the FireGL (PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_71D4) is simply not listed in ATI's INF file... :-(

Then I discovered something interesting. If I select the device in the device manager, click Update Driver, and then tell him to also show me incompatible hardware, I actually see the FireGL V5200 on the list (apparantly it's a driver that ships with Vista)! I selected that, it replaced the drivers, and almost everything was fine. One slight problem was that the built-in LCD monitor wasn't recognized, and it showed the maximum resolution as something like 1280x720 or something. I had to again manually select a 60hz LCD with 1400x1050 resolution from their list of "incompatible hardware". That worked.

--- Aero ---

Having done all of that, I was able to play with Aero, and I have to say that it's very sweet. Pushing "Windows + Tab" shows a 3D stack of your Windows that you can "fly" through. Very nice, especially considering that the windows are "alive" in that 3D view, so that, for example, a video playing inside Media Player actually plays in the 3D view as well, they are not just frozen bitmaps of the windows. Also, the 3D view of each window is very detailed, you can actually read the text in the stacked windows if you want. I have found this little feature to be really useful, WAY better than Alt+Tab. Additionally, Aero adds some little window transparency effects that make everything look a bit sexier, but it's nothing significant (am I missing some of it's feature here??).

One visual aspect in Vista that is strikingly different is the fonts. They are all strongly anti-aliased, and look a lot "rounder" than before. It takes some getting used to, but I think it's easier on the eyes in the long run. We'll see.

Despite all of these relatively heavy things, the system appears to be very snappy. I have the Core 2 Duo T7600 (2.33Ghz), and things really feel fast, wherever I go and whatever I try on it.

--- Windows Speech Recognition ---

Even though it has nothing to do with the T60 specifically, I thought I'd let you know that I've tried using the speech recognition with the Thinkpad's built in microphone (which is very decent -- I use it DAILY for Skype calls, etc.).

The speech recognition appears to be an impressive engine, with a LOT of thought put into its design. Unfortunately, using the builtin microphone I'd say it's borderline useable, at best. It missed more commands than it recognized when I tried it (and I coached it for quite a while), but I'd guess it would be really usable in a quiet room with a better mic.

--- Resource Monitor ---

On another note that has nothing to do with the T60, I'd say that the Resource Monitor is a great little tool. It's a little program that monitors all resource usage done by programs: network activity, CPU usage, memory usage, and disk accesses. It is a great tool for quickly discovering who's slowing down your system, messing with your harddrive, etc.

--- Other Software ---

Generally speaking, programs work fine. I have Skype, Office 2003, Visual Studio .NET, a Windows Mobile phone that talks to the built in Synchronization Manager thingy (no more Activesync!!!), etc.

One problem I have is that VMWare Player behaves strangely. The first time it's launched after the system is rebooted, it freezes the entire system, including audio, for about a MINUTE! Things then return to normal and it appears to work fine. This seems to be some memory management thing, because the harddrive is crunching like mad when it happens. I have 2GB of RAM, and this is pretty surprising behaviour.

As a side note, I installed the Need For Speed Carbon demo, and it crashes when I try to run it.

--- Summary ---

Overall, this has been a very positive experience. My T60p is definitely stable and usable running Vista, and I'm sure things will improve dramatically in the coming months. Vista is a significant step up for XP users in terms of convenience and productivity, and it sure looks nicer.

Hope this is helpful to those of you considering this upgrade.
Last edited by ldoogy on Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kel Ghu
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#2 Post by Kel Ghu » Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:36 pm

About the graphic driver, you installed the FireGL V5200 and not the Mobility FireGL V5200. That's why Vista didn't find any driver for the graphic card.
T61p - 6457-AN6
X60t - 6363-A7G - NMB - Sanyo[8]
T60p - 2007-83G - TMD - NMB - Sanyo (9)/Panasonic(6)
T43p - 2668-G4G - Hydis - NMB - Sanyo

ldoogy
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#3 Post by ldoogy » Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:41 pm

True, but it appears to work (though this could be the reason why NFS Carbon crashed).

I've heard that the Mobility FireGL V5200 is nothing but a slightly modified Mobility X1800 or something. If that's true, it should be possible to hack ATI's INF file to get them to install the X1800's drivers on the T60p. I have tried modifying the INF file, but it still complained that "no device was found".

ldoogy
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#4 Post by ldoogy » Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:10 pm

Okay, a little update. I've been able to take the ATI Catalyst setup files, go to C:\ati\SUPPORT\catalyst_8-31-100_vista32_rc2\Packages\Drivers\Display\LH_INF, open the INF file in there, and add a new entry that goes something like this:

"ATI Mobility FireGL" = ati2mtag_M58, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_71D4

The device ID (71D4) is what identifies the Mobility FireGL hardware on my T60p. Notice that this installs the same driver that gets installed for systems that have the Mobility Radeon X1800 and Mobility Radeon X1900. Can anyone confirm that these chips are indeed compatible/similar to the Mobility FireGL V5200?

In the meantime, I can say that this setup also works fine, with Aero running smoothly. However, NFS Carbon still crashes. Maybe it's a Vista compatibility issue.

DAH
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#5 Post by DAH » Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:25 pm

Interesting, my Mobility FireGL V5200 was found by vista, no problem at all. What BIOS are you running?

I've installed the ThinkVantage Active Protection System 1.41 (79SA07WW), ignoring the warring that this software is known to have problems with Vista. So far no problems at all after rebooting.
Image ThinkPad T60p T7600 4 GB RAM 320 GB 7200 RPM HD Vista Ultimate Service Pack 2 5.1 4.7 4.2 4.6 5.8

ldoogy
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#6 Post by ldoogy » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:28 am

Very interesting, because Vista consistently insists on finding "Standard VGA" on my system, I've tried it more than once. Could you go to the device manager, click on the FireGL device, Properties->Details->Hardware Ids, and see if yours is also PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_71D4? I have a different machine model than yours, is it possible it's not the exact same ATI chip?

ldoogy
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#7 Post by ldoogy » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:21 am

By the way, I should add to this review that my system is now crashing when I boot it on batteries with the ACPI Control Method Battery device enabled (see separate thread). I'm still trying to find a solution to this issue.

DAH
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#8 Post by DAH » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:28 pm

ldoogy wrote:Very interesting, because Vista consistently insists on finding "Standard VGA" on my system, I've tried it more than once. Could you go to the device manager, click on the FireGL device, Properties->Details->Hardware Ids, and see if yours is also PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_71D4? I have a different machine model than yours, is it possible it's not the exact same ATI chip?
Mine is listed as a 71C4

PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_71C4&SUBSYS_200717AA&REV_00
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_71C4&SUBSYS_200717AA
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_71C4&CC_030000
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_71C4&CC_0300

Is what I have listed.
Image ThinkPad T60p T7600 4 GB RAM 320 GB 7200 RPM HD Vista Ultimate Service Pack 2 5.1 4.7 4.2 4.6 5.8

ldoogy
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#9 Post by ldoogy » Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:40 am

Interesting. That means that the Core 2 Duo machines have a slightly different ATI FireGL chip than the older Core Duo T60s! Is that something we knew about?

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#10 Post by DAH » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:21 am

Well my T60p is also a 1600 x 1200 LCD my guess is yours is not, Vista is picking that up and is picking up the size of my LCD. The default Colors is medium 16 bit not 32 bit. Then Media Center complains about the color depth, but that is very minor and easy to change/fix.

I wonder what someone with a V5250 shows?

What do you have the BIOS set to boot to?
Image ThinkPad T60p T7600 4 GB RAM 320 GB 7200 RPM HD Vista Ultimate Service Pack 2 5.1 4.7 4.2 4.6 5.8

jdorfman
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ACPI crash

#11 Post by jdorfman » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:14 am

ldoogy wrote:By the way, I should add to this review that my system is now crashing when I boot it on batteries with the ACPI Control Method Battery device enabled (see separate thread). I'm still trying to find a solution to this issue.
Are you still having this problem? I have the exact same symptoms and have been banging my head against the wall trying to fix it. The only work around I have found is disabling ACPI Control Method Battery. Otherwise, will crash on batteries.

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#12 Post by cxls » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:35 am

Can you switch Aero off when you're on battery power only?
IBM ThinkPad T60p 2623-DDU | Intel Core Duo 2.0 GHz T2500 | 2 GB RAM | 256 MB ATI FireGL V5200 | 100 GB 7200 RPM SATA HDD | 15" UXGA BOE-Hydis (1600x1200) | NMB Keyboard | 9 Cell Battery x2

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Re: ACPI crash

#13 Post by BadAndy » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:10 am

jdorfman wrote:
ldoogy wrote:By the way, I should add to this review that my system is now crashing when I boot it on batteries with the ACPI Control Method Battery device enabled (see separate thread). I'm still trying to find a solution to this issue.
Are you still having this problem? I have the exact same symptoms and have been banging my head against the wall trying to fix it. The only work around I have found is disabling ACPI Control Method Battery. Otherwise, will crash on batteries.
I had the same problem after installing Vista Business on my T60P. I downloaded the power management from IBM and instead of installing it from the folder I just updated the ThinkPad PM Device driver. The ThinkPad PM Device is under "System Devices" in Device Manager. It seems to have resolved the problem for me.

rssb
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#14 Post by rssb » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:58 pm

The 71D4 is the new chip V5250, which the newer C2D are being shipped with.

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