Memory compatibility

T4x series specific matters only
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kaczor47
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Memory compatibility

#1 Post by kaczor47 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:17 am

Hello,

I have a T41 2378-DMU, which originally shipped with 256MB DDR PC2700 CL2.5 memory (Samsung M4 70L3224FT0-CB3).
I just bought a stick of 1GB DDR PC3200 CL3 (Samsung K4H1G0838A-TCC) . When I add the extra memory (regardless which slot gets which one), the system does not boot, in fact the screen is blank, no beep codes, nothin'. In fact, even when I just put in the 1GB module by itself, the same happens.

I am an owner of a faulty memory stick, or is there a compatibility problem here?

Any help would be appreciated, before I start the ebay complaint...(argh, I think I'm through with this ebay nonsense) :(

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#2 Post by rkawakami » Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:40 am

I don't have any direct experience with the T41s (see my .sig). I DO have some experience with memory modules (I'm a memory test engineer). If the 1GB Samsung module is marked CL3 and IF the T41 requires CL2.5 memory, then yes you have an incompatibility. Even though the 1GB is "faster" (PC3200 or 400Mhz) than the 256MB (PC2700 or 333Mhz), if the memories on the module cannot deliver data in the 2.5 cycles that the laptop requires, then you have a problem.
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#3 Post by crazyfrog » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:59 am

I can't agree with rkawakami.

I've mixed a 512MB PC2-5300 DDR2-667 CL5 (IBM FPU 40Y8402) with a 512MB PC2-4200 DDR2-533 CL4 (IBM FPU 73P3843) in a T43. The two memory sticks work together without any problem, and they also passed the PC doctor memory test. T43 uses PC2-4200 DDR2-533 CL4 memory as the standard config. I believe the PC2-5300 DDR2-667 CL5 memory must be backward compatible with PC2-4200 DDR2-533 CL4 .

Although DDR2 is not backward compatible with DDR, I think PC3200 CL3 should be backward compatible with PC2700 CL2.5 (Found evidence from crucial).

So I guess kaczor47's unluckily got a faulty memory stick. This is just my guess. Still T41 may have a very strict CL requirement.

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#4 Post by kaczor47 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:04 pm

rkawakami wrote:If the 1GB Samsung module is marked CL3 and IF the T41 requires CL2.5 memory, then yes you have an incompatibility. Even though the 1GB is "faster" (PC3200 or 400Mhz) than the 256MB (PC2700 or 333Mhz), if the memories on the module cannot deliver data in the 2.5 cycles that the laptop requires, then you have a problem.
I realize that the memory might not work under CL 2.5 timing, but I was under the impression that the system would adjust and slow things down to CL 3.0, especially when only the 1GB CL3.0 module is installed?

Unfortunately the T41 bios does not let you see (let alone adjust) the memory timing. not that I can access the bios, the system doesn't boot at all....

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#5 Post by rkawakami » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:39 pm

kaczor47 wrote:I realize that the memory might not work under CL 2.5 timing, but I was under the impression that the system would adjust and slow things down to CL 3.0, especially when only the 1GB CL3.0 module is installed?
That's something I'm still not sure that all Thinkpads will do (automatically adjust the memory timing). My guess is that most systems are locked into a specific CL (CAS latency) timing and only checks the module's SPD (serial presence detect) information to see if it is capable of running at that timing. If anyone can confirm or refute this point, please let me know.

The SPD information can be programmed so that it lets the motherboard know which timings that module supports. Generally, if the module is tested and guaranteed to operate at CL2.5, then the bit for CL3 and possibly CL3.5 can also be set. However, if the module is only guaranteed for CL3 operation, the CL2.5 bit should NOT be set. If the motherboard does not read and adjust the memory timings to match the capability of the module(s), then you may be operating out of spec. Also note: these CL options are at the rated clock speed of the module and does not take into account the use of a different clock rate.

Doing the math for the two different modules (PC2700-333Mhz CL2.5 and PC3200-400Mhz CL3), the actual access times are identical; 7.5ns. Crazyfrog is correct; the PC3200 CL3 should be able to operate at the PC2700 CL2.5 timings. However, if the system insists on using the CL2.5 setting and it checks to see what the module supports, you may have a problem with the 1GB CL3 module.

Of course, you still could have a module with defective memory or some shorted pins and that's what's causing your problem. If you are not getting any kind of beep or error number code, then I'd carefully look at the edge of the SODIMM to see if there are two adjacent traces shorted together.
Ray Kawakami
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kaczor47
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#6 Post by kaczor47 » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:33 pm

Just for the record, I had the RAM tested on different machines at a computer store. Same thing - no post.

This does not mean that it is compatible with my T41, but it does mean that it is faulty :? .

manlyman
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Re: Memory compatibility

#7 Post by manlyman » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:00 am

kaczor47 wrote:Hello,

I have a T41 2378-DMU, which originally shipped with 256MB DDR PC2700 CL2.5 memory (Samsung M4 70L3224FT0-CB3).
I just bought a stick of 1GB DDR PC3200 CL3 (Samsung K4H1G0838A-TCC) . When I add the extra memory (regardless which slot gets which one), the system does not boot, in fact the screen is blank, no beep codes, nothin'. In fact, even when I just put in the 1GB module by itself, the same happens.
I have exactly the same problem here, same Samsungs stick and probably the same (canadian) seller? Different laptop though!

I have so far tested the stick in three laptops and neither show any signs of life with this stick in the memory slot (regardelss if its the only stick in the machine or not).

My strong guess is that the stick is faulty since I think the laptop should detect incompatible memory and beep to show this.

But it could also just be that the stick is strictly CL3 only and the older laptops are unable to adjust for this. Just a theory. I'm going to try this stick in a few more laptops today and if they all remain dead, I'll probably have to start reclaims thru ebay/paypal. That would be a stinkin job but I guess this happens sometimes.

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#8 Post by Terminus_ » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:33 am

I have the same problem with the same type of memory with my T40.

These memories are not real Samsung sticks but manufactured by an other company (nobody knows the origin of them). Lots of people have the same problem with these sticks. I've purchased my 2 sticks from ebay too. My seller was dissappeared after a lots of negative feedbacks. And some people are still selling these on ebay...

I've tried the 2 sticks in my friend's Acer TM270 and it was beeping (3-1-3-1 and 4-3-?). So maybe the memories are bad or incompatible with these laptops. I hope its only incompatibility.

i.thinkpad
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#9 Post by i.thinkpad » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:58 pm

It is obviously an issue of faulty memory, but not compatibility.

Terminus_ is right. Somebody is selling fake memory modules on ebay (US, Canada). In most cases, these chips will be able to work, but it only means you are very lucky.

kaczor47 is one of the unlucky buyers, so am I.
My favouritePad is X61. My eBay feedback is here. :)
My next goal of upgrading my super X61 is: XGA -> SXGA+

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