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Not charging battery in T23

T20-T23 Series and T30 specific matters only. NOT for T25-Retro.
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Piterek79
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Not charging battery in T23

#1 Post by Piterek79 » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:20 pm

hello,

I have quite big problem with my t23, it does not want to charge battery.

I have checked battery in another t23 and battery is ok,
I have also checked that my t23 works with battery alone and without battery when plugged in AC adapter,

When t23 works both with battery and AC adapter, battery meter shows that "it takes 10 or more hour to charge battery" but nothing is happenning

The ibm battery monitor shows only voltage as the battery is charged and also starts showing current and wattage if I remove the AC adaptor.

I changed bios version three times but it is still the same,

Any help,

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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#2 Post by rkawakami » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:47 pm

Welcome to thinkpads.com!
Piterek79 wrote:I have checked battery in another t23 and battery is ok,
Does your battery charge properly in the other T23 system? If it does, then your problem is with your T23. If the batter does not charge properly in another T23, then the problem is your battery.
Piterek79 wrote:The ibm battery monitor shows only voltage as the battery is charged and also starts showing current and wattage if I remove the AC adaptor.
Click the Battery Health button and report the following:

Battery Health color (green, yellow or red)
Full Charge Capacity
Design Capacity
Cycle Count

I assume that you have not had any problems with charging the battery before and that this problem suddenly appeared. If that is the case and the battery charges properly in another laptop, then I would suspect a problem with the charging circuit inside your T23. It could be as simple as a blown fuse or loose connection or it could be a defective part on the motherboard. In either case, if you do not have the tools to identify and fix the problem, a motherboard replacement is usually the only solution.
Ray Kawakami
X22 X24 X31 X41 X41T X60 X60s X61 X61s X200 X200s X300 X301 Z60m Z61t Z61p 560 560Z 600 600E 600X T21 T22 T23 T41 T60p T410 T420 T520 W500 W520 R50 A21p A22p A31 A31p
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Piterek79
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#3 Post by Piterek79 » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:38 pm

thanks for replay,

I have already checked proper battery in both t23 and that broken still has problem with charging,
Click the Battery Health button and report the following:

Battery Health color (green, yellow or red)
Full Charge Capacity
Design Capacity
Cycle Count
tommorow I will check that couse I am away,

and do you have any schema of that charging circuit which shows fuses etc. , I have got soldering iron and multimeter, I can try to repair,

regards,

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#4 Post by rkawakami » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:03 pm

Piterek79 wrote:...and do you have any schema of that charging circuit which shows fuses etc. , I have got soldering iron and multimeter, I can try to repair,
No, I'm sorry I do not have any schematics. I do not believe they are available to people outside of IBM/Lenovo. I do have a T23 motherboard which I can scan and show you where I have found a couple of fuses. Each power input (DC power jack, battery, Ultrabay) has one or more fuses protecting the circuit. One of my T23 systems had a bad 7A fuse and I found a company that sells them (Mouser.com). My best suggestion is that you use your meter and test the "F9" fuse near the main battery terminals. The "F12" fuse appears to be the main fuse for the battery and if it is bad, your laptop would not run off of the battery.
Ray Kawakami
X22 X24 X31 X41 X41T X60 X60s X61 X61s X200 X200s X300 X301 Z60m Z61t Z61p 560 560Z 600 600E 600X T21 T22 T23 T41 T60p T410 T420 T520 W500 W520 R50 A21p A22p A31 A31p
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#5 Post by Piterek79 » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:12 pm

my t23 works without AC Power,

what does it mean that fuse is blown??
it doesn't conduct any current??

how can I check the fuses with multimeter??

Am I right that fuse should protect mainboard against any overvolltages??

thanks,

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#6 Post by rkawakami » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:32 pm

Piterek79 wrote:my t23 works without AC Power, what does it mean that fuse is blown??
Quite the opposite... if the main fuse (F12) was blown, your laptop would not work with the battery alone.
Piterek79 wrote:how can I check the fuses with multimeter??
With all power removed from the board (CMOS battery as well), put the meter into the lowest resistance (ohms) range and put the leads across the fuse. It should read 0 ohms.
Piterek79 wrote:Am I right that fuse should protect mainboard against any overvolltages??
Generally speaking, a fuse limits the current that flows into the board.

edit: Here is a scan of one of my T23 motherboards showing two fuses next to the main battery terminals:

http://www.rkawakami.net/ibm_t2x/main_fuses.jpg (640x480, 89KB)

The larger fuse, F12, appears to be protecting the main power input. There is a smaller fuse, F9, which also seems to be connected to the battery. My guess is that it is protecting the data terminal from the battery where the information from the battery pack is obtained. These are about the only two parts you can easily test and replace on the motherboard which could cause your charging problem. It is also possible that another part in the charging circuit is defective. Since I do not have schematics I have no way of telling which part(s) it might be.
Ray Kawakami
X22 X24 X31 X41 X41T X60 X60s X61 X61s X200 X200s X300 X301 Z60m Z61t Z61p 560 560Z 600 600E 600X T21 T22 T23 T41 T60p T410 T420 T520 W500 W520 R50 A21p A22p A31 A31p
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#7 Post by Piterek79 » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:26 pm

thanks for your help @rkawakami,

it was as easy as sleeping :),

one of the electronic pieces lost connection with motherboard, exacly 150N21 on your photo, I just ironed and fix the problem,

greetings from Poland,

bye,

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#8 Post by rkawakami » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:33 pm

Glad to hear that it was a very simple problem and fix. Those parts have a problem sometimes remaining attached to the motherboard. It is assumed that flexing the laptop by picking it up by one corner can cause some components to separate.
Ray Kawakami
X22 X24 X31 X41 X41T X60 X60s X61 X61s X200 X200s X300 X301 Z60m Z61t Z61p 560 560Z 600 600E 600X T21 T22 T23 T41 T60p T410 T420 T520 W500 W520 R50 A21p A22p A31 A31p
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#9 Post by vlyne » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:25 pm

Hey Ray, is this 150N21 another one of these problematic inductors in the T23 series? I forgot to check this particular one in my recent fix of a T23 as I just concentrated on the usual suspects underneath near the CPU. Time to crack it open again!! I just hope I can get to it by just pulling off the keyboard?
Cheers

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#10 Post by rkawakami » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:30 pm

Yes, indeed. It appears that when it came loose, the battery would not charge anymore. There are about six of them (of varying designs) on the T23 motherboard.
Ray Kawakami
X22 X24 X31 X41 X41T X60 X60s X61 X61s X200 X200s X300 X301 Z60m Z61t Z61p 560 560Z 600 600E 600X T21 T22 T23 T41 T60p T410 T420 T520 W500 W520 R50 A21p A22p A31 A31p
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#11 Post by vlyne » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:18 pm

Being in series with the power supply these inductors must get awfully warm to detach themselves from their motherboard. Either that or some unusually large currents are being drawn, or let's hope it just a simple case of improperly soldered contacts. If the latter then IBM should have a recall on these machines!
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#12 Post by 0rion » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:10 am

vlyne wrote:Hey Ray, is this 150N21 another one of these problematic inductors in the T23 series? I forgot to check this particular one in my recent fix of a T23 as I just concentrated on the usual suspects underneath near the CPU.
Is there a list of "the usual suspects" and symptoms? I'd be totally into disassembling my T23 for inspection if I knew what to look for!

-Chris

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#13 Post by vlyne » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:28 pm

0rion wrote:Is there a list of "the usual suspects" and symptoms? I'd be totally into disassembling my T23 for inspection if I knew what to look for!
-Chris
Chris,
There isn't a list as such but take a look at the image in Ray's post. The usual suspects are the inductor (black rounded-edge square thing) and the fuses. Check the contact on the inductor by gently trying to lift it off the motherboard. Most the time, it's obvious that it's loose. As Ray says there are about 6 of these but the problematic ones are underneath where they tend to fall off! As for the fuses the main ones tend to blow before the others. The flat green ones have a resistance of about 0.2 to 0.4 ohm. Be careful in using the 200 ohm beep setting to check fuses as a beep is no guarantee that the fuse is good (I speak from experience!). You have to look at the meter to make sure it is zero. Some of the really small pico fuses may have a resistance above zero as well.
Cheers

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#14 Post by vlyne » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:37 pm

Sorry for the double post - website was wonky for a while.

I should add that the other suspect is the network/modem card and bent pins in the USB, or other ports/harddisk.
Cheers

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#15 Post by goofyGAguy » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:56 pm

Yes, I can vouch that a faulty MPCI modem card can make a laptop do all sorts of weird stuff.

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#16 Post by meles » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:34 pm

Firstly sorry for bringing up a topic that's almost a year old but it is just too similar to my problem - my T23 is just not charging and the problem is not the battery (I have made this sure).

Today I dismounted the keyboard to see if some components are loose as described in this thread above. And I found small component with a marking '150 N24' which was completely loose (moving around if the laptop was to be shaken and stuff).

Can anybody tell where should this part be? I didn't see any vacant places for it under the keyboard on the main board so it should belong somewhere else... I just wanted to ask first before opening everything up. It's very similar to a component '150 N21' but slightly smaller.

But the laptop is working without this missing component, not charging battery though.
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#17 Post by rkawakami » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:31 pm

On my "map" of the top side of the T23 motherboard detailed in this thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=37956

look in the middle of "G6" and you will probably see where your loose part goes.

edit: I will say that can be a little hard soldering it back onto the motherboard since there is a large capacitor and the graphics chip on either side. The best suggestion I can give is to make sure that the metal pads on the "150N24" part is clean and shiny (scrape it with a screwdriver), put a small amount of solder on the pads, then place the part on the motherboard and heat up the sides near the motherboard. The heat transfer will melt the solder and hopefully will not cause any problems with the capacitor and graphics chip.

P.S. Welcome to thinkpads.com!
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X22 X24 X31 X41 X41T X60 X60s X61 X61s X200 X200s X300 X301 Z60m Z61t Z61p 560 560Z 600 600E 600X T21 T22 T23 T41 T60p T410 T420 T520 W500 W520 R50 A21p A22p A31 A31p
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#18 Post by tfflivemb2 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:17 pm

ok, so I am assuming that I was having the same problem with my T23 that wouldn't charge the battery, since I opened it up again and this same inductor was loose. In fact, as soon as I touched it, it came completely loose.

WELLLLLLLL, I resoldered it back on, and booted it up....I am now getting the 0175 Bad CRC error...grrrrrr I just cannot win with this specific system....

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#19 Post by meles » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:46 am

Great thanks! I was able to solder it back on with a soldering gun I bought this morning. A lot cheaper than buying a new mother board, hehe. Charging seems to work completely fine now, nothing else seems to be damaged too (exept a small part of plastic from the inner casing which doesn't matter :) )
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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#20 Post by b1ack0p » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:06 am

Hi,

it has been years but i newly got T23 so i am having similar issue.

when i check battery details in linux "upower -d" it shows battery still has 66% capacity but it doesnt charge. maybe i shouldnt expect battery life from 20 years old ThinkPad but i saw some other T23s still has battery life so i would like to be sure if battery is already dead and it doesnt show correct details or it has motherboard issue that there is some loose component which transfers power to the battery. Could you please advise? i cant find G6 schema of the motherboard, can someone please show me which component it is exactly to check?

https://imgur.com/a/e1aaPGA
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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#21 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:33 am

Lovely day for a Guinness! (the Real Black Stuff). And pigs CAN fly!
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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#22 Post by b1ack0p » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:00 pm

Thanks for reply RealBlackStuff but i dont understand electrical schemes really. is there any picture of the component? and by looking at the screenshot (upower -d values) i posted, can we say the problem? Energy and Energy rate shows "0"
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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#23 Post by kfzhu1229 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:41 pm

Does the laptop run off the battery if you say it still has some 66% of charge?
If not, check the voltage on the two pins of the battery on each end of the connector with a voltmeter.
If it is zero, then your battery might be shot.
If it is not zero, check the fuse of the battery connector on the motherboard and see if that has continuity. It is located beside the battery connector and has this distinct white colour on it, and usually is labelled as F something.
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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#24 Post by b1ack0p » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:06 pm

@kfzhu1229 thanks for reply

Do you mean this component which is circled in purple in the picture? http://imgur.viper-7.com/fh2IqXA.jpg
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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#25 Post by kfzhu1229 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:31 pm

b1ack0p wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:06 pm
Do you mean this component which is circled in purple in the picture?
Yup that seemed to be the one. measure with multimeter (with the charger and battery unplugged just so we are sure that your multimeter won't blow up) to see if it has any resistance. It should have near zero resistance. If not you need to get it replaced. You can either replace it or if you are really lazy, you could solder a blob of solder on top, though for that you are taking a risk of burning things out if something on the motherboard is indeed wrong that the fuse is blown.
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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#26 Post by b1ack0p » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:01 am

@kfzhu1229

I measured motherboard battery connector’s 2 pins at each end while AC plugged and voltmeter showed 0.02V (W/O battery attached)

AC plugged W/battery i measured motherboard battery connector pins at 8.xxV

I measured only battery alone right after detached from laptop it showed 8.xxV at first but after a while it showed “0” zero (probably discharged)

That white component doesnt show any voltage and seems solders are still good, nothing loose.
my ThinkCollection: X20, X31, X40, X601s, X61, X230, T23, T42, T60

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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#27 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:28 am

b1ack0p wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:01 am
I measured only battery alone right after detached from laptop it showed 8.xxV at first but after a while it showed “0” zero (probably discharged)
That white component doesnt show any voltage and seems solders are still good, nothing loose.
This doesn't look very promising. The battery may very well be faulty.
But to be sure, for the white component, you need to set your multimeter to RESISTANCE or continuity mode and see if it has zero resistance. Disconnect the battery and power supply when doing this, just in case it is dead and your bridge with the multimeter probe burns the multimeter when the laptop has power.
If it does not have near zero resistnace, it needs to be replaced or bridged with solder.
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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#28 Post by b1ack0p » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:14 am

@kfzhu1229 thanks for your helps and advices really.

is this correct how i measured like in the pictures below?

https://imgur.com/18lsItX
https://imgur.com/ZgmO8Mc
https://imgur.com/khcC6HD

if i set 2k Ω (Ohm) on multimeter (measured both sides of the white component/fuse on motherboard without AC and Battery attached) value measured "001", if i set to 200 Ω it measures "003", is it good or needs replacement?
my ThinkCollection: X20, X31, X40, X601s, X61, X230, T23, T42, T60

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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#29 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:00 pm

Okay the fuse seems good to me. But the fact that you said the battery only had 8V and also only for a short time concerns me. the standard voltages of this battery must be greater than 10V. The fact that you only have 8V suggests that there was most probably some overdischarging for the battery cells and that the battery might just be a done deal. You could try to open up the battery and replace the cells before the battery IC declares itself as dead.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
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T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
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Re: Not charging battery in T23

#30 Post by b1ack0p » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:25 pm

While AC and battery attached, voltage at connector pins measures at 8V. Probably it tries to charge the battery but battery refusing.

So motherboard is good right? Problem is the battery? So can i assemble back the T23 now? :)
my ThinkCollection: X20, X31, X40, X601s, X61, X230, T23, T42, T60

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