T20 won't boot when on battery & 3com combo connected!

[Prox]

Hi everyone, I searched forum but found only opposite problem, so I hope you could help me. Here is my problem:

My T20 (2647 86G) won't boot when is on a battery power, only thik that happen is that i can see IBM logo and "F1 for setup" i can't see the F12 option. When hit Esc, the memory is beeing checked and everything seems to be OK, when F1 - entering setup.. but after that it just shutdown.. i can't access bios. No matter if the battery is fully charged or in a half on something..

When is on AC i can boot normally, I can see the F12 option, enter bios etc.

When I plug AC just for a second...or when is it on AC in that time a press the Power up button, it will boot normally...I can unplug it after a second and its still OK, but AC must be plugged in while pressing Power on button.

I found out that I can boot even on battery when the machine is warm.. so I could start it up when it's cold, hit pause and wait for warm air flow when it seems to be warm enought, I just turn in off and start again and if its really warm enought (guess about 40C on CPU)...it will boot normally...

About the battery, Multimeter app said its on about 53% cappacity. I can run on it for ca 50mins.

Maybe, just maybe.. it was OK when I bought it and start for first time, it was on a battery..nearly drained and boot normally. When I loaded it up with WinXP i found out that battery could run from 100% to ca50% and then jumps to 4%. So I try to recover it - charging to 100%, than let it drain to 0 - for couple times and now its ok - for the meter, the time I could run on battery is still the same..but it wont boot up normally when its cold and on battery

So, IMO its because the battery, I hope that if Ill buy a brand new battery it would be OK, but Im not sure..

BIOS is pretty old - 1.09, could be updated..but I afraid it would freeze during the update.

So.... any ideas? Thanks ...and sorry for my eng

[vlyne]

Yet another twist in a confusing set of symptoms for the T20/21 series. In your case, you're probably right in suspecting the battery. It never hurts to have a spare battery anyway so I would go ahead and get one. If your battery is plunging from 50% to 4% then its not reliable and potentially could cut out at a critical time. I'd go ahead and replace it.

And yes, update the BIOS only when you're very certain you have solved the power problem.
Good Luck!

[Prox]

Yet another twist in a confusing set of symptoms for the T20/21 series. In your case, you're probably right in suspecting the battery. It never hurts to have a spare battery anyway so I would go ahead and get one. If your battery is plunging from 50% to 4% then its not reliable and potentially could cut out at a critical time. I'd go ahead and replace it.

And yes, update the BIOS only when you're very certain you have solved the power problem.
Good Luck!

But I still wonder, why I can boot it up when its warm, a just put the battery on radiator to make it warm as it could be while is running, but it still wont boot. I think I will boot only when the power supply unit or something like this is warm enought. But, yes, I could try to get new battery just only for a test....however I dont really need to get this fixed, you know.. it should work, thats the only think

[vlyne]

I agree you shouldn't replace something if it doesn't need to be. If possible, test the battery in another machine to see if it does drop rapidly from 50% charge to nothing. You could try reconditioning it.

I don't think the other problem is with the "warmth" so much as some sort of charging up of the system. You could trying warming up the whole machine with a hair dryer to test. I think this is just another version of the so-called "overcharged capacitor" problem which is trying a few of us nuts. Welcome to the club!
Cheers

[Prox]

I agree you shouldn't replace something if it doesn't need to be. If possible, test the battery in another machine to see if it does drop rapidly from 50% charge to nothing. You could try reconditioning it.

I don't think the other problem is with the "warmth" so much as some sort of charging up of the system. You could trying warming up the whole machine with a hair dryer to test. I think this is just another version of the so-called "overcharged capacitor" problem which is trying a few of us nuts. Welcome to the club!
Cheers

About reconditioning, I already did.. now its ok - no drops from 50% to almost zero.

IMO warming the whole machine as you described would work - there is something inside that need to be warm and about the "overcharged capacitor" problem - yes I agree.. any progress with this problem from you?

[vlyne]

That's odd that something in the machine needs to be warm! It could be any one of the components but the largest one with any significant amount of thermal inertia is the fan mount. So, have you tried reseating the CPU? On my probability score I'd have to bet on that being the culprit - not the mount but one or more of the CPU pins not seating properly. Well, there is the other possibility that one of those really really fine wires in the CPU is making intermittent contact. Won't hurt to reseat the CPU anyway.

I'm afraid there's still no proper solution to the overcharged capacitor problem - just a bunch of tricks that work for a while and then the problem gets worse. It a bit like those mirages in the desert, you think you've found the problem but it turns out to be a dud. I haven't given up yet and I hope Dr Ray hasn't either
Cheers

[Prox]

Hmmmm...reseating CPU, thats it i guess... because there is another problem with my T20, sometimes when browsing (firefox), opening some new panels, scrolling trought forums etc. - cpu switching again and again form 566 to 700mhz, temperature grows and ... it freezes - during the scroll, only thing I can do is reset..

I bought this thinkpad just on week ago and this happend only twice, now Im trying no to be that aggresive when browsing .. so Ill try to reseat CPU and see what.. Thanks a lot for this idea

[vlyne]

See my recent post on this but one of the things I've discovered about the T20 model is that (at least the model I have) has a thermal sponge instead of thermal paste to help transfer heat from the CPU. If you have the thermal sponge you may want to get a fan from a T21 or T22 and use the thermal paste.
Cheers

[Prox]

So I put CPU out and then back...and my problem is still remailning..

About the sponge..depends on what you mean with "sponge" I discovered that there is no paste, but some kind of rubber or what

[vlyne]

The rubber stuff is what I call the sponge. You still haven't ruled out the CPU as the culprit - unlikely but given that you have the rubber/sponge and I have a similar T20 with a "blink of death", it may still be the problem. I'll try, a CPU swap in the weekend if I can get the time. Is there any difference at all in the start up problem?
Cheers

[Prox]

The rubber stuff is what I call the sponge. You still haven't ruled out the CPU as the culprit - unlikely but given that you have the rubber/sponge and I have a similar T20 with a "blink of death", it may still be the problem. I'll try, a CPU swap in the weekend if I can get the time. Is there any difference at all in the start up problem?
Cheers

After CPU reseating - its still the same, no difference. I tryed several "tests" warming only battery - no difference; warming whole machine than battery to fridge to freeze it when rest of computer is still warm - no difference; warming up whole machine on radiator - will boot

[vlyne]

That being the case, I guess you'll just have to move to the Sahara Desert.

If you hadn't recounted the other problem with the temperature going up and the machine "freezing" I would have suggested the battery as the problem. I think you've ruled out the battery with your tests. At this stage, I'm afraid it's the old strip everything routine. The culprint is a thermally sensitive device. So after the strip test I'd test, while the machine was cold, all the fuses and main diodes. Beyound that, I think you'll just have to live with the A/C in battery out/in routine.
Keep Warm!!
Cheers

[Prox]

That being the case, I guess you'll just have to move to the Sahara Desert.

If you hadn't recounted the other problem with the temperature going up and the machine "freezing" I would have suggested the battery as the problem. I think you've ruled out the battery with your tests. At this stage, I'm afraid it's the old strip everything routine. The culprint is a thermally sensitive device. So after the strip test I'd test, while the machine was cold, all the fuses and main diodes. Beyound that, I think you'll just have to live with the A/C in battery out/in routine.
Keep Warm!!
Cheers

So, any progress from you?
I didnt check the fuses yet, but I installed Linux and yes its still freezing. I discovered that is really depend on temperature&CPU usage, every time it freezes its hot, doing something that makes CPU to switch on 700Mhz and i think the fan is always on when that happend. But its not too bad, my desktop pc, thank god i dont need to use it now, has bad mobo or something and blue screen is there on daily order, si the situatin on thinkpad is pretty good

About the "wont boot when on battery" issue, there is one quite strange think. I remember, and Im 100% sure that when I brought it home for firts time I turn it on when it was on battery and it succesfully booted, so I wonder why it wount boot now, after I re-formated the battery to force the battery meter to show right values..

[Prox]

Hey! I just discovered interesting solution to get rid of my "wont boot on battery" issue. When I just unplug the mini PCI lan card..only unplug from the slot, no wiring un-connecting - it WILL boot even on battery even when cold

[Prox]

No one with same prob?

[goofyGAguy]

Yes, I had the exact same problem with my 3COM mini-PCI card, so I replaced it with a Lucent WinModem. That solved my boot problem, but now I have terrible web-surfing speed. I guess I'll try a Xircom modem next.

[leasure98]

I had a problem with the 3Com combo on my A20m. When I replaced it with the Xircom, it booted normally. (Windows XP). My bootup would freeze. Good luck!