BSOD on T23, steps to take?

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dsigma6 · #1 Post by **dsigma6** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:38 pm

With my luck, since I sold my original T23 on Wednesday, later that evening the BSOD's started on my second T23. God hates me.

So here's the deal. The machine ran fine for the month and a half I had it. I swapped out the original 1GHz for a 1.13. Still, it ran fine for weeks. I took the 512MB stick from my old T23, which never had a problem over 3 months, and popped it in the second T23.

I ran memtest86 on the memory through 10 passes, with no errors. I ran PC Doctor as well, many times, with no errors anywhere, including motherboard, CPU, etc. I thought it was just a bad HD, so I swapped out with my old T23 HD. Still BSOD'ing all over the place.

Some of the errors I've seen are:

Page fault in nonpaged area (Doesn't that mean RAM?)
IRQL
Win32K.sys
SRV.sys

I haven't seen the page fault error since I put the new HD in. I reinstalled XP and it completed. I messed up on the partitioning, so I started over. Formatted with PC Doctor, and the install was underway. With 15 minutes remaining, it popped up that it couldn't find file XXXXXX. I would hit cancel, and it would continue with file after file, not found. Then it would BSOD.

I took out the ultrabay CD drive, and tried it on an external. It never asked for files it couldn't find, but ended up at another BSOD.

I'm kind of short on specific details, but does it seem that this is either the CPU or motherboard? The fact that it brings up similar errors with both HD's, which are completely different (not clones).

The ethernet card and modem were removed to rule them out, but the errors exists regardless of them.

Any advice? I didn't want to part this thing out, especially not knowing which part is the culprit.

edit: I got XP to install again, but was immediately taken to the login screen with the Admin account- That is unusual, as it always boots right in.

I decided to install Ubuntu Linux to see what happens- I got this error:
soft lockup detected on cpu#0

Maybe that'll help, I'll do some research.

#2 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:37 am

Googling the error message "page fault in nonpaged area" yields the following hits:

http://www.outpostfirewall.com/forum/ar ... 10710.html
http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.php
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/26925/

Essentially from skimming through these pages I get the sense that the error is occuring in the area of memory which contains system code which is not permitted to be swapped out to the paging file (virtual memory). Problem could be with the memory or with damaged file(s) being loaded off of the hard drive.

dsigma6 · #3 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:13 am

Thanks Ray.

I have an X22 on the way so I'll test the RAM in there, even though I did another 12 passes with memtest86 last night, with no errors. I find it hard to believe that two separate HD's, with different installs, having the same exact problem.

I should point out that they were both in the system concurrently, but no windows files were touched.

I've tried to install Ubuntu, even running the live version, but once it got in it started saying "feature X needs to close" repetitiously.

edit: XP install disc wouldn't boot, but finally did. This time I chose to format with FAT32, since NTFS kept failing. I have installed with no errors, and will convert and see what happens. Either way, it was still BSOD'ing after a successful install, but at least I can access the HD.

#4 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:50 am

dsigma6 wrote:I did another 12 passes with memtest86 last night, with no errors.

Are you using memtest86 or memtest86+? There are subtle differences between these two programs from what I understand. I have seen reports saying that memtest86 will catch errors that memtest86+ does not and vice versa. Even the version levels of the programs sometime matters. I believe that when our applications group did some correlation work between both versions of memtest and our dedicated automated test equipment (ATE), it was found that in our case, test results using memtest86+ (v1.40 I think) seemed to more accurately reflect the results of our ATE testing.

memtest86+ is available from http://www.memtest.org. Current version appears to be v1.65.

dsigma6 · #5 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:00 pm

Actually, I inadvertently used both. One was downloaded, the other was on the Ubutnu live disk. I converted the FAT32 install to NTFS and haven't had a blue screen yet. I'm going to run it for a while and see what happens. I'm not going to install Firefox or any of my usual programs, as I think Firefox and AVG were possibly causing a problem.

I set the pagefile to 2.5X physical RAM, as 1.5, system managed, and OFF all produced BSOD's.

edit: I ran the machine for about 12 hours today, and things are up and running like they were before the BSOD-fest. The only changes are the pagefile multiplier and skipping AVG altogether. I'll cross my fingers on this one.

dsigma6 · #6 Post by **dsigma6** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:27 am

The blue screens have continued since my last post, but I didn't even feel like looking at this machine.

In addition to the other errors, I'm now getting a "kmixer" BSOD as well.

Could these things ultimately just be the motherboard?

#7 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:49 pm

A couple of Yahoo! searches using "kmixer blue screen" or "kmixer bsod" seems to point to a video driver problem in a few cases. That doesn't seem to be your problem if you did an OS re-install. Is it possible that your problems with reading the XP disk may have caused a file to be installed corrupted? I'm reaching for solutions here, if you haven't noticed...

I would say that if you run all of the systemboard, CPU, video, hard disk and memory diagnostics out of PC Doctor overnight and DON'T get any failures, then what you are looking at is a software problem. That's just my opinion...

dsigma6 · #8 Post by **dsigma6** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:18 pm

Thanks as usual, Ray. I only post here so that other people can do the searching for me...

Just kidding.

Every time I search I just end up with long threads that get quoted by every person who posts...so it makes you crazy trying to read it.

I have run PC doctor for 12 hours doing the full system check, and it passed. I've eliminated everything that can be removed from the system, so you have a good chance of being right about software or drivers. I'll try removing some and replacing them.

Perhaps repair console could help?

pianowizard · #9 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:21 pm

dsigma6 wrote:The blue screens have continued since my last post, but I didn't even feel like looking at this machine.

I would just sell it for parts on eBay. It's not worth the headaches.

dsigma6 · #10 Post by **dsigma6** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:22 pm

pianowizard wrote:
dsigma6 wrote:The blue screens have continued since my last post, but I didn't even feel like looking at this machine.
I would just sell it for parts on eBay. It's not worth the headaches.

I beg your pardon!!

While it annoys the hell out of me, I'd take great satisfaction in knowing I (and RAY) fixed it. The T23 is the machine I let my girlfriend use, so I guess she could just use the desktop and get by. She keeps telling me she doesn't need a laptop, but I insist and keep buying more.

I don't think she's falling for it.

dsigma6 · #11 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:08 pm

It reached a point where I couldn't even boot from a CD without getting the blue screen. Even if I didn't boot from CD, it would go BSOD right after the IBM splash screen.

For the second time in a month, I formatted and reinstalled XP. This time I'm skipping all of the IBM drivers except for video, trackpoint and hotkeys. Audio works fine with XP drivers.

I'll run each new program I add for a week and see what happens.

Musti · #12 Post by **Musti** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:00 pm

dsigma6 wrote:It reached a point where I couldn't even boot from a CD without getting the blue screen. Even if I didn't boot from CD, it would go BSOD right after the IBM splash screen.

For the second time in a month, I formatted and reinstalled XP. This time I'm skipping all of the IBM drivers except for video, trackpoint and hotkeys. Audio works fine with XP drivers.

I'll run each new program I add for a week and see what happens.

$10 (Canadian) says it is the memory. Actually, make it $20.
Oh, and good luck. Looks like a frustrating experience. Keep us posted.

dsigma6 · #13 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:22 pm

That was the initial thought, but dozens of hours of tests say otherwise. I ran it for a couple days in the X22 without a problem, and as I said before, it worked fine for months in the old T23. I ran a different working stick as well, and that brough up the same BSOD's.

Just when things were back to normal after the last format/install, I got another BSOD.

Musti · #14 Post by **Musti** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:08 am

I didn't say the memory stick only. Stop banging your head! lol

There's something wrong with the memory system. The memory slot. When you say BSODs happen with known-good memory sticks tested on other T2xs, I believe you. But the symptoms you get...lead me to believe it is the memory system.

I know it is not helpful. And I can see the frustration. But for the love of God, no head bangs anymore! You'll find the solution. Yes you will.

dsigma6 · #15 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:19 am

I can't possibly figure out what could be causing the problem from a software or update standpoint, as doing them one by one and testing would take too long.

I'll just keep it as the unreliable machine for quick use, or maybe pick up a new motherboard if I can do so cheaply.

You still want that $20 don't ya?

Musti · #16 Post by **Musti** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:43 am

Lol, sure.

This situation is most bizarre. Don't you hate it when something like this comes along the way? I am sure you'll keep on experimenting, please update us as I am intrigued as to what might be the real culprit...

On a positive note, I just looked at your sig and became happy, as you have other machines to get your work done

#17 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:09 am

From re-reading everything you've gone through, my current best guess is that there's something wrong with your disk drive interface. Would you happen to have an Ultrabay 2000 HDD adapter? The reason I ask is that you can mount and boot your system from there. Of course, you first have to get an OS on the drive the normal way (hard drive in the regular bay and optical drive in the Ultrabay). This would rule out the normal IDE connector in the laptop but not the controller chip.

dsigma6 · #18 Post by **dsigma6** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:04 am

Yea it's good to have other systems to use. It just gets me that the day I got rid of my perfect T23, this one went down. If it had happened any other way, I could have shrugged it off.

Ray- The drive will boot from the 2nd HD adapter. I've done it recently, but not for an extended period. That's a great idea to try and rule out 1 more thing. I'll go ahead with that later today and see how it goes. This could be explained by the laptop BSOD'ing in the middle of an XP install, on a clean drive.

The little things my little mind can't figure out...

If I do find a new motherboard, and can't fix this one, I'll probably sell it for $20 (if it's worth that much!).

dsigma6 · #19 Post by **dsigma6** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:40 pm

As of 10:30 tonight, the T23 has been up and running since 1:30 this afternoon.

I previously had not gone more than 2 hours without a BSOD, so this is a positive sign.

To boot from the ultrabay hard drive, I just have to F12 and select CDROM. If I resume from hibernate, it automatically boots in.

I've just installed firefox, which I had originally suspected was part of the problem, but I think it was just a scapegoat.

I'll let 'er run overnight and hopefully will return to a nice black screensaver, not a blue POS.

#20 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:01 pm

Hmm... I don't remember having to press F12 to get the system to boot from the hard drive in the Ultrabay... Last time I did this was about a month ago on a T21. I had just Ghosted the system into a backup drive in the U2K adapater and I figured I should test it to see if it could boot. I removed the "regular" drive and I think I just powered up. I can't remember if I did anything special to the BIOS and/or the boot process to get it to recognize the just-cloned disk. (Ray goes and looks for the post he thinks he made... ah yes, there it is...) Here's the thread about it:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 079#225079

(re: "nice black screensaver"... Would this not be the PERFECT time for somebody to load this onto dsigma6's system?

)

#21 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:13 pm

rkawakami wrote:I don't remember having to press F12 to get the system to boot from the hard drive in the Ultrabay.

I had Windows XP in a hard drive in my main hard drive slot, and Windows Vista RC1 in a hard drive in the Ultrabay Slim slot. I had to press F12 to be able to boot the drive in the Ultrabay Slim slot, otherwise it would only boot the main hard drive. This is because I did not let Vista install a boot manager on the main hard drive.

dsigma6 · #22 Post by **dsigma6** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:14 pm

I don't think I even need to click that link, I get the idea...funny guy, you.

I know I've booted directly from the ultrabay HD before, but I had reset the BIOS to defaults and didn't change anything back. I always tell my gf to hibernate, so it won't be a problem.

Regarding the link that I actually did click [:)] , the wait at the splash screen was reaching 1 minute, so that was a waste of time for me. No HD light or anything.

If it continues to run without problems, I owe you Ray.

dsigma6 · #23 Post by **dsigma6** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:30 pm

OK...ten minutes after my last post, while running a virus scan...BAM! BSOD.

It was IRQL not less or equal. I restarted, then firefox (which I shouldn't have installed) froze up.

It then produced a PFN list corrupt BSOD.

Are things pointing back at the RAM yet again??!!

Things were fine all day until I just installed firefox and tpfancontrol. I'm not going to use tpfan, but why firefox is potentially making this thing freak out is beyond me.

Ray, I had a check all filled out and ready to send to you..

#24 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:55 pm

dsigma6 wrote:Ray, I had a check all filled out and ready to send to you..

Ah, man! I coulda used the $5 for Christmas presents!

You've got mail!

dsigma6 · #25 Post by **dsigma6** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:19 am

rkawakami wrote:You've got mail!

You really sent me your address so that I could send you a check? Geez Ray.

Ok I'm kidding. Ray is the most helpful person I've ever encountered on the internet.

dsigma6 · #26 Post by **dsigma6** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:30 pm

I think it really is just the main HD connector on the motherboard.

I was using the ultrabay HD adapter, then I shut down. Put the HD in the normal spot, BSOD immediately after the splash screen. Back in the 2nd HD adapter, and starts normally.

dsigma6 · #27 Post by **dsigma6** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:21 am

Update: Ray was nice enought to swap RAM with me to test mine out, and to see whether his would work in my T23. Well, it worked, and tested fine on his end.

Nothing has changed in my system except for the different RAM. I wonder if it just had issues with that one stick?

I'm still nervous about opening her up after being left on overnight, but time will tell.

Thanks again Ray, you are my thinkpads.com hero.

BSOD on T23, steps to take?

BSOD on T23, steps to take?

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