RAM: Logical upgrade path? [img warning]

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uberT · #31 Post by **uberT** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:08 am

Is this true? The system won't benefit from PC2700??

brentpresley wrote:
The T30 uses PC2100 DDR memory (PC2700 will work, but only run at PC2100 speeds - so save yourself some dough).

Website · #32 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:59 am

pianowizard wrote:
tfflivemb2 wrote:Is there a model/part number on the 1gb stick?
The OP said it earlier: it's Kingston P/N KTM TP9828/1G

Sorry...missed that....distracted by the BSOD.

As for the comment about getting PC2100 instead of PC2700 to save some dough...when I was looking before, the PC2700 sticks were cheaper...but that was 6 months ago...

and no, you won't feel the difference in getting PC2700 over PC2100, because it will only operate at the laptop's FSB speed...

uberT · #33 Post by **uberT** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:06 am

OK, thanks.

And there aren't any issues with running PC2100 stick and a PC2700 stick together??

The machine will not boot with the new PC2700 stick alone.

Website · #34 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:23 am

No, there won't be any issues with running PC2100 and PC2700 at the same time...they will just operate at the PC2100 speed, as already stated.

I really do think that the stick that you got might be defective....is there any way to test a stick from someone else, or have them test the stick for you?

uberT · #35 Post by **uberT** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:32 am

Agreed. i really don't have any other direction to run in and don't have any other machine I can test it on.

I'm gonna ask the seller to take it back. I've also sent a note to Kingston asking if they can verify its operating condition.

Worst case: $100 lesson learned; don't buy sensitive electronic gear on eBay.

pianowizard · #36 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:30 pm

uberT wrote:Worst case: $100 lesson learned; don't buy sensitive electronic gear on eBay.

It's always risky buying through eBay. Next time, try the Marketplace on this forum. 1GB PC2700 sticks are sold here every now and then, usually for less than $100, and almost always tested to work.

#37 Post by **rkawakami** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:58 pm

I read back through all of the posts and I can't believe I didn't say this before (must be old age kicking in

)....

If you are getting to the point of receiving a "blue screen", that means that the laptop has finished POST and could therefore boot a memory diagnostic program such as memtest86+:

http://www.memtest.org/

Download it, create the bootable floppy or CD and let it run. There could be a single bit failure somewhere in the memory array which is not detected by POST, yet will cause all sorts of operational problems.

Website · #38 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:13 pm

Funny..I was just thinking the same thing...

pianowizard · #39 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:20 pm

And I ran Memtest86 on my T60 just last night! I was going to recommend the OP to try it but thought that all he could get was the fan turning on and nothing on the screen. I just reread his earlier posts and realized that that's when he only had the 1GB stick in the machine.

So, run the Memtest with one 256MB stick and the 1GB stick in the machine. Do at least 8 passes, because otherwise subtle problems may not be detected.

uberT · #40 Post by **uberT** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:05 pm

Is this going to be my saving grace !!

uberT · #41 Post by **uberT** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:27 pm

rkawakami wrote: If you are getting to the point of receiving a "blue screen", that means that the laptop has finished POST and could therefore boot a memory diagnostic program such as memtest86+

BTW, what's POST

I'm pretty sure I can access PC Doctor from DOS. Would that buy me anything when it comes to performing these tests?

#42 Post by **rkawakami** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:42 pm

POST = Power On Self Test

It's the (minimal) check that the laptop does when powered up. Using the DOS-based version of PC Doctor means that you don't need to boot into Windows to perform the diagnostics. PC Doctor's boot disk (diskette or CD) has its own miniature DOS which loads the diagnostic program. So basically, if your machine can successfully boot a disk, then you should be able to run this program. Besides the memory diagnostic, PC Doctor has many other tests to verify your system's hardware.

Same goes for the memtest86+ program. It has its own OS. Although it can only test your memory.

uberT · #43 Post by **uberT** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:52 pm

Guys, any helpful tips on which memtest pkg to download?

I am not sure I know how to create a bootable CD. I have Nero (5.5.10.42) and it's supposed to be capable of creating a bootable image, but I don't know where I am supposed to pull the start-up software from...

#44 Post by **rkawakami** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:42 am

You've probably figured out what you needed, but here's some info...

If the Nero install package works as most burning software does, it should have associated an .ISO file extension with launching Nero into burning the file in a format which will make the disk bootable. If not, then you'll have to poke around the help system to see what is required to write the image file in the proper format.

The easiest memtest86+ install package to use is the one for creating a floppy disk. Of course, if you don't have a diskette drive, then you're left with a CD image. Personally, I have not used the CD image file for memtest86+, but have used Easy CD Creator 5 to burn other .ISO files.

That said, use the latest version of memtest86+ (currently V1.70). When the system is booted, you should see a screen as detailed on the "screenshots" section at memtest86.org. Normally no other special commands or modifications are needed when running the memory diag.

uberT · #45 Post by **uberT** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:16 am

Nero permits me to make many types of CDs. One is bootable, another type is ISO and so on. Problem is, when I select bootable CD it starts asking me for the location of an image file it needs to copy. It seems to be looking for a bootable floppy disc so it can copy (system??) files. I don't have a floppy disc drive.

It's also asking me about "emulations". I can select hard drive or floppy disc drive.

I've got a bootable CD that has some utilities on it. I've looked at that CD and can see what would appear to be system files that I might copy. It definitely works as a bootable CD and has 1/2 dozen different utilities and some anti-virus stuff on it.

uberT · #46 Post by **uberT** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:35 am

these are the printed directions from NERO:

Bootable CDs may be created only under Windows 95/98or NT.

1. First step is to create a new bootable ISO compilation. This can be done by clicking the menu command „File" -> „New..."
.
2. On the left side of the dialog please choose the icon „CD-ROM (Boot)".
3. At this point you can see the property page „Boot". The upper part of this page is used to select the kind of model you have as input for the bootable CD. You can choose whether you want to use a logical drive or an image file as model for your bootable CD.

Note: If the desired input device does not appear in the list of possible model drives then the reason is probably the size limitation for bootable CDs. The logical drive's size may not exceed the capacity of a CD; that means 640MB.

Note: Please consider that you need to have administrator rights to be able to create bootable CDs using Windows NT 4.0. This behaviour is by Microsoft's operating system design and was chosen to prevent hackers from accessing other user's (possibly secret) files. But to create bootable CDs all sectors of a logical drive must be accessible. And the only user who's got the permission to read all sectors using Windows NT is the supervisor.

4. The lower part of the boot property page contains detailed settings for bootable CDs. These settings normally are dimmed indicating that Nero will check and set all the expert options automatically for you. If you choose to use an image file as model for the creation of a bootable CD, then Nero can't automatically choose those settings for you. In this case, or if you choose to define these settings manually, you can do so. Of course you're responsible for the resulting CD. If the settings are incorrect you will get an incorrect bootable CD...

5. You can now click on New. The ISO compilation window opens.
6. If the File Browser has not yet been opened, you can do that now by entering the VIEW>New File Browser command or by clicking on the File Browser icon.
7. Click on the desired data files in the File Browser with the mouse and then drag them into the compilation window.

Note: you can burn a bootable CD without data on it. In that case, you don't have to compile files.

8. Now open the Write CD dialog. The easiest way to do this is to click on the Write CD icon in the toolbar. You will then go to the Write CD dialog box, which will undoubtedly look familiar to you:
9. It is the same box which you saw for the creation of a new compilation, only now the Burn property sheet is shown on the top.

You will see several boxes, of which some have already been selected. All of the preferences may now be examined and changed if necessary.

10. Confirm by clicking on Write.

I can't get beyond Step 3 where it discusses the image (.IMA) file that it's looking for. Any suggestions?

#47 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:10 pm

When Nero starts up using NeroSmartStart, you see the smallish red window.
Hover your mouse along the icons along the top, until you get to 'Copy and Backup'.
An icon for 'Burn Image to Disc' shows. Click on that, in the next window browse to the .ISO file for the program you want to burn. Leftclick on that .iso, then click the Open button.
The rest is self-explanatory.

uberT · #48 Post by **uberT** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:18 pm

realblackstuff wrote:When Nero starts up using NeroSmartStart, you see the smallish red window.

That's not an option on the version I have.

#49 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:28 pm

Then try if you have an option for burning .ISO images, perhaps under Backup?
I can't remember what the previous versions looked like (I have v6).
I'm sure the older Nero's had that possibility.

Pick a free ISO-burner from here:
http://www.thefreecountry.com/utilities ... ning.shtml

uberT · #50 Post by **uberT** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:58 pm

real, thanks for your replies. I believe I can successfully burn the CD now using Nero. What I can't figure out is where to get the complete set of files that makes up the DOS operating system.

I burned a CD this morning (with a file called boot.ima) and was able to boot from it. However, once the machine started I just get a screen with a single message stating: "operating system files not found".

#51 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:12 pm

The memtest .iso includes the booting file(s), which could be anything from DOS to Linux or whatever. So don't worry about those.
Upon booting, press F12 and tell your laptop to boot from CD, memtest will do the rest.

You are referring to the 'old' way of making bootable CDs with DOS-floppy images (like in BartPE), when you want to create your own self-booting stuff. Nowadays an .ISO includes these files.

PS: if for some reason you are going to abandon that T30, let me have first refusal on the motherboard, please, I'm looking for one.

uberT · #52 Post by **uberT** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:41 pm

realblackstuff wrote:The memtest .iso includes the booting file(s), which could be anything from DOS to Linux or whatever. So don't worry about those.
Upon booting, press F12 and tell your laptop to boot from CD, memtest will do the rest.

Thanks. Ray kindly explained this to me this afternoon. I figured something was missing, I guess not. I do know about F12 and alternate boot devices.

You are referring to the 'old' way of making bootable CDs with DOS-floppy images (like in BartPE), when you want to create your own self-booting stuff. Nowadays an .ISO includes these files.

PS: if for some reason you are going to abandon that T30, let me have first refusal on the motherboard, please, I'm looking for one.

LOL, I have no plans on abandoning it anytime soon. I love this machine regardless of its age. I'd just like to get a bit more RAM in place as we run multple large applications and the machine seems to run low on memory by the end of the day.

Thanks.

uberT · #53 Post by **uberT** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:57 am

I've had some contact with Kingston and it seems unproductive. They are maintaining the position that each slot will handle 512MB and don't recognize the fact that IBM modded the BIOS to handle twice that amount. They didn't appear intested in going any deeper.

uberT · #54 Post by **uberT** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:29 pm

The gentleman at Kingston is now asking for the IBM documentation showing the move from 1GB to 2GB. I looked for it yesterday and poked around the documenation of previous BIOS revisions - - I couldn't find anything. Anyone ever see it?

Thanks.

#55 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:49 pm

Looking at the memory options page and BIOS revision history for the T30 and Memory compatibility, I can find only 1GB support and no info as to any increase in memory size. Is there some other official documentation?

uberT · #56 Post by **uberT** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:51 pm

Ray, thanks for looking. Would it be BIOS or the embedded controller? I only checked BIOS and couldn't find anything.

Kingston chip update: I was able to test the chip this evening (thanks, Ray !!) and I had about 9,000 errors within 10 seconds so something tells me this baby is DOA !!

I ran the test (9 passes) on my two good sticks and 0 errors.

Website · #57 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:26 pm

Well, if that is the case, then you don't have to worry about proving your case on the T30 limits...simply have them replace it under the DOA warranty.

As stated before, I was pretty sure that it was a problem with the ram.

As for documentation from IBm regarding the limit changing from 1gb to 2gb....it has nothing to do with IBM itself, but rather the chipset of the processor, if I am not mistaken.

Furthermore, 2gb sticks weren't around at the time that IBM sold the T30s. I think that it was a coincidental thing for the ability to handle 2gb with the latest BIOS updates.

uberT · #58 Post by **uberT** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:41 am

tfflivemb2 wrote:Well, if that is the case, then you don't have to worry about proving your case on the T30 limits...simply have them replace it under the DOA warranty.

Problem is, I bought this "used" from somebody on eBay and it's just going to turn into a "he said/she said" scenario. Neither of us have the ability to prove how or when the failure occurred. I don't feel I have much recourse in a situation like this.

I've ordered a new Kingston 512MB PC2100 stick for cheap $$$ - - it's the actual P/N Kingston recommends for the T30. I'll probably end up buying a 2nd one and just be happy with 1GB.

I am certainly disappointed as I haven't been able to support the case for running 1GB strips in these older machines.

Website · #59 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:53 pm

Actually, doesn't Kingston carry a lifetime warranty? Or, do you have to have proof of purchase? I haven't dealt with a warranty situation with ram before...

uberT · #60 Post by **uberT** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:55 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they do label it lifetime warranty. However, I'm fairly certain it's original purchaser only per their written statement.

RAM: Logical upgrade path? [img warning]

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