Shooting at Springfield High School, Erdenheim, PA

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dsigma6 · #1 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:28 am

Has anyone seen this on the news today? It took place at the high school I graduated from in 2001.

A student shot himself to death with a rifle, in the hallway.

Initially I was shocked, and slightly relieved that he didn't kill any students or teachers, but I've just learned who it was.

I believe he was about 18, and was a fellow Eagle Scout like myself, from the same troop. He became an Eagle at about 15 years old, and if anybody knows, that's quite an achievement. His parents live only two blocks from me, so this will be tough for the area.

Please say a pray for these people, as they will surely need it.

RUSH2112 · #2 Post by **RUSH2112** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:35 pm

Sad, but, like you said, at least he didnt kill any one else.

Website · #3 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:52 pm

Sorry to hear about that Dan...

christopher_wolf · #4 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:33 pm

Yeah, that's kind of sad...

I am sure that he will be missed.

dsigma6 · #5 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:16 pm

Admittedly, if I didn't know him, I would have just kept going about my day. It's so strange the effect things have on a person when emotions get involved.

The eerily ironic part is, I remember him at our scout camp a few years ago, rifle in hand at the shooting range, an A+ marksman.

He was senior patrol leader if anyone's familiar with scouting, so he had quite a burden on him just from that.

RIP.

Nigellus · #6 Post by **Nigellus** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:08 pm

I just don't understand any of this. It doesn't make sense. There has to be something "in the air" that there wasn't 40 years ago. My father's school allowed students to bring guns to school as long as they checked it in at the office. There was no gun violence.

#7 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:47 pm

I'm not familiar with scouting but I knew some Eagle Scouts when I was in the army they were pretty hardcore, seems like the military is the next logical step for them.

Have not seen that on the news yet

#8 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:48 pm

Nigellus wrote:I just don't understand any of this. It doesn't make sense. There has to be something "in the air" that there wasn't 40 years ago. My father's school allowed students to bring guns to school as long as they checked it in at the office. There was no gun violence.

[personal opinion]
You're talking about the early-to-mid Sixties. John Kennedy had already been assassinated (on my 7th birthday)... student protests against the Vietnam War were beginning to take over the evening news... SDS had started up earlier in the decade... Kent State was still a few years away, along with Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King. The cynic in me would say that the '70s, '80s and '90s only fueled the acceptance of violence through the popular media (movies, TV, video games). Note that I'm not directly blaming any of those things by itself; just that with the additional societal pressures being put upon people, modern life becomes more stressful.
[/personal opinion]

dsigma6 · #9 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:16 pm

As usual, the news was reporting a lot of details wrong- he had an AK47, not a rifle. He sawed it off sometime last night, and snuck it into his Dad's car at the same time, so he never saw it. His Dad is the Assistant Scout Master at my old troop, so it was a family that was familiar with, and had knowledge of firearms.

It's a shame that they put his father on the news, just hours after the incident, and exploited as much as they could out of him.

#10 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:44 pm

Man that's SOP for the drive by media

They love stuff like this. Kick em when thery're up, kick em when they're down.

#11 Post by **tomh009** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:12 pm

dsigma6 wrote:As usual, the news was reporting a lot of details wrong- he had an AK47, not a rifle. He sawed it off sometime last night, and snuck it into his Dad's car at the same time, so he never saw it. His Dad is the Assistant Scout Master at my old troop, so it was a family that was familiar with, and had knowledge of firearms.

So for what possible purpose do people by AK-47s in the first place? Surely it's not the gun of choice for target practice ...

christopher_wolf · #12 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:27 pm

tomh009 wrote: So for what possible purpose do people by AK-47s in the first place? Surely it's not the gun of choice for target practice ...

It can be, I actually have a friend that likes them and has an AK47 and an SKS. It does have a certain "Cool" factor associated to it as well, more so than any old plinking rifle would. He has some great target practice videos with it and the SKS.

#13 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:40 pm

I've fired captured soviet AK's and they are some bad mammy jammers. They're fairly accurate with thier open sites, kick like a mule and on full auto even at over 200lbs it was hard me to keep the thing on target past a burst of about 5 rounds, of course you can adjust your ammo for less power if your in to reloading. One of their biggest claims to fame is their ability to keep on working under extreme environmental conditions, dirt, water, heat, cold, lack of maintenance.

#14 Post by **draco2527** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:33 pm

dsigma6 wrote:As usual, the news was reporting a lot of details wrong- he had an AK47, not a rifle. He sawed it off sometime last night, and snuck it into his Dad's car at the same time, so he never saw it. His Dad is the Assistant Scout Master at my old troop, so it was a family that was familiar with, and had knowledge of firearms.

It's a shame that they put his father on the news, just hours after the incident, and exploited as much as they could out of him.

AK47=machine gun=assault rifle=full auto=Media BS

You can label as the media seems to do...any of the above (minus the BS part) only when the weapon in question is capable of firing in full auto/burst mode (more then one shot comes out per each time the trigger is pressed..without having to reset said trigger (letting the trigger move forward and pressing it again-that is why the "clip-on" "full-auto" devices are legal...in slow motion the trigger resets, helped by the recoil and forward movement of the gun or the same resetting action on the trigger with the crank style "conversion" units)

There are also MANY internal differences, which under BATF rules can "under law" classify a weapon as "full auto" without the gun being able to fire in full auto/burst mode-For example- The bolt carrier on the MILITARY M16..is TOTALLY...different then the look-alike AR-15 civilian version- by replacing this one part...you are still short about 10 pieces to make your weapon "full-auto" BUT for prosecuting under law this is plenty to make it in the slammer!! Try to find an M16 bolt carrier for under $100-yes, still legal for those having a class III license or their sear on their weapon registered with BATF as "automatic" prior to 1986...and believe me there are TONS..of legally owned (by civilians) "full auto" weapons..tax stamp will cost you $250.00 to register with BATF regardless of the cost of the weapon (suppressors fall under the same law-they can legally be owned for ~$300 plus the cost of the stamp). A true "full-auto" in the "black-market" will run you as much or more then a legal one, MP5 around $10K...M16 depending on "vintage" $12K...the real thing...AK47 $5K-8K, SAW...yes....a "mini"...$80K. So like anything else "exotic" only limited to the ones with deep pockets-ammo gets $$$ quick as well
-

So the media can continue to awe the ignorant...at the cost of increasing their bank role...and in the process making everyone (when innocent) look bad...

Some years back...two thugs with guns came to my rear door...(rear door had a glass partition-double locks that could only be opened or closed from the inside with a key-) They mentioned something about..."open the door...or we will shoot you"...well...their answer came back in the form of lead... and I am still waiting for the news truck...

On the above...if the report WAS an actual AK-47 (AK-74 fires the .223 NATO and not the 7.62X39 like the 47 or SKS) or one of the semiautomatic civilian versions...he did not have much room to saw off...as the gas operated gun will not cycle without the "upper" portion above the barrel being intact)...I can't see how any of the above is possible...unless the gun in question was a 22 or bolt action!...M16, AR-15 work on the same principle as the AK but the bolt face will lock and unlock against the breech during firing -really complex machine- What makes the AK work in all environments is the lack of tight tolerance in the parts...you clean it and it rattles like crazy...don't clean it and is like a rock...

Anyways, may he rest in peace! Feel bad for the Dad as well!
Sad day...

JHEM · #15 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:45 pm

Kyocera wrote:One of their biggest claims to fame is their ability to keep on working under extreme environmental conditions, dirt, water, heat, cold, lack of maintenance.

Back in the day I had a standard demonstration at the range of an AK47 and an M16 buried in a Lister bag of very sloppy mud.

I'd pull the M16 out of the bag and hand it to the 'cruits to see how fast they could clear and fire a 6 round burst (clean clip and ammo). They'd tear it down completely, clean it as best they could and reassemble it, usually took about ten minutes. But they rarely managed to get two or three rounds out of it before it jammed.

Conversely, I'd reach in the bag, pull the AK out, pull the bolt back slightly, clear the bore by blowing it out, lock and load a 30 round clip and fire the entire thing off! Never jammed.

Dan, I'm very saddened to hear of your friend's death.

James

Nigellus · #16 Post by **Nigellus** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:00 am

dsigma6 wrote:he had an AK47... He sawed it off sometime last night ...

Ahhhh. Whenever I hear that someone shot themselves with a rifle, I always wonder how they managed considering the length of the barrel.

christopher_wolf · #17 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:50 am

JHEM wrote:
Kyocera wrote:One of their biggest claims to fame is their ability to keep on working under extreme environmental conditions, dirt, water, heat, cold, lack of maintenance.
I'd pull the M16 out of the bag and hand it to the 'cruits to see how fast they could clear and fire a 6 round burst (clean clip and ammo). They'd tear it down completely, clean it as best they could and reassemble it, usually took about ten minutes. But they rarely managed to get two or three rounds out of it before it jammed.

Didn't they change the composition of the load for the rounds to prevent that? With the older ones, after a few shots, the residue would gum up the mechanism...especially where moisture was a concern.

dsigma6 · #18 Post by **dsigma6** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:26 am

Here I am blaming the media, when I was wrong about his age. He was 16, and got Eagle at 13...which was even more amazing than 15.

Either way, I thank all the well wishers.

#19 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:13 am

Sorry to hear about the tragedy hitting close to home.

I had a childhood friend and classmate whose family moved to Alaska when I was in third grade. He had a sister who was a couple of years younger. When his sister was about 20 I ran into her again through a friend while visiting my native home state (she and her parents had moved back). We planned a day ski trip shortly after. I had a great time with her and was thinking to myself that if I was living back in my home state I would like to date her. About a year later I heard she killed herself by snaking a hose from her car's exhaust into the passenger compartment. What a loss and tragedy. A beautiful, pleasant girl with her life ahead of her. As far as I know, no one really knows why she did it. There is just no understanding these things sometimes. What a sad thing for the parents - in all these cases.

dsigma6 · #20 Post by **dsigma6** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:35 am

I truly wish there was some way to communicate with people who are secretly troubled...if you could somehow get it across to them that things happen, and it's just a stage. I know that's too much wishful thinking though.

Adding to the devastation, his mother had just beaten breast cancer.

#21 Post by **Kyocera** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:53 am

James: Conversely, I'd reach in the bag, pull the AK out, pull the bolt back slightly, clear the bore by blowing it out, lock and load a 30 round clip and fire the entire thing off! Never jammed.

Exactly. Totally unbelievable weapon, thats why the popularity.

Dan, sorry to go off topic a little.

dsigma6 · #22 Post by **dsigma6** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:10 am

Well, it's not my website after all!

skitty4gzus · #23 Post by **skitty4gzus** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:01 pm

wow how did this get so completely off track??? He asked for prayers for those involved and affected. I pray the Lord rains down peace and comfort to those in need. People gotta want it though, if they blame God for something like this that would be a shame. I pray they and whoever else realizes how precious life is and how it can be gone in the twinkling of an eye. God never promised us a tomorrow, thats why we gotta live for today.

#24 Post by **Kyocera** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:55 am

Thanks skitty, your're right. Back on track.

Merry Christmas, ho

ho

ho...

dsigma6 · #25 Post by **dsigma6** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:24 am

draco- It turns out that he sawed off the butt of the gun, not the barrel. That makes sense now.

Did this story make it across the country?

Shooting at Springfield High School, Erdenheim, PA

Shooting at Springfield High School, Erdenheim, PA

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