Which a better choice buying used - X31 or X32?

[gator]

Which do you think is a better choice buying used, provided all configurations are the same? X31 or X32?

I bought a used X31 off ebay sometime back, and seeing that my friend wants to buy one too. He is not sure whether he should go for X31 or X32. The X32 is approx. $100 more expensive than the X31. This laptop will be used mainly as a machine to take to school (browsing, email, powerpoint and some matlab, and ofcourse movies).

Apart from the Banias/Dothan processor difference between these models, is there any difference that can be seen in real-world applications? My vote would be for the X31 since its cheaper, but are there more advantages to the X32? Does it have a better battery life?

[Ken Fox]

Which do you think is a better choice buying used, provided all configurations are the same? X31 or X32?

I bought a used X31 off ebay sometime back, and seeing that my friend wants to buy one too. He is not sure whether he should go for X31 or X32. The X32 is approx. $100 more expensive than the X31. This laptop will be used mainly as a machine to take to school (browsing, email, powerpoint and some matlab, and ofcourse movies).

Apart from the Banias/Dothan processor difference between these models, is there any difference that can be seen in real-world applications? My vote would be for the X31 since its cheaper, but are there more advantages to the X32? Does it have a better battery life?

I've owned both; an X31 1.3ghz and an X32 1.8ghz, which I still own and use on trips (several months a year). The X31 was bought new on a closeout for (what at the time was) an amazing price ~$900; the model was still in production but the 1.3ghz processor had been phased out. I had 768mb of RAM in the X31.

I got rid of the X31 for reasons having nothing to do with its performance; I spilled a glass of red wine on the screen in a motel room and even with my quick action to blot it up, the screen was permanently damaged by liquid that tracked between the LCD layers. The X31 still had half it's 3 year warranty left and I sold it as damaged goods on ebay. Of course the warranty doesn't cover things like spilling wine on your screen

I loved the X31 and even though the X40 was the current model, I opted for one of the last X32s that Lenovo was selling during its brief life (there are many more X31s out there than X32s). By that point the choice was 1.6mhz, 1.8mhz, and 2.0, with the 1.8 being the best value and that was what I bought. I was able to use the same 7200rpm 60gb Hitachi drive I'd upgraded myself into the X31, but this time I went for 1.5gb of RAM. I've been using this X32 for 16 months now.

This rambling introduction is intended to give you some idea of the similarities and differences in the two models I owned (1.3ghz 768mb vs. 1.8ghz 1.5gb). Both machines have had the same HD in them, which is an upgrade from how the machines shipped.

The X32 I have is definitely faster, although less so for non-processor intensive things like email and web browsing, as one would expect. The achilles heel of both models is the 16mb non-shared memory video card, and the more horsepower the processor and HD have, the more the video card's limitations will reduce incremental benefits. I have not detected very much difference in battery life, but to be honest, if I can find a plug, I will use the laptop on AC, and I"m usually able to find a plug. I have one of those supplemental batteries that clips on at the bottom and often use that; with that battery the notebook might no longer meet some people's definition of "ultraportable." I saw someone selling those supplemental batteries for the X3 series on ebay last week for less than $50.

It is hard to say what to buy because $100 could be significant if the prices are just a few hundred dollars, and could be less so if we are talking $800 vs $900, for example. The X32 is apt to be newer and may have less wear and tear, so this could be a factor.

Good luck.

[gator]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Ken!

I got a near mint X31 for $495 on ebay (1.6 GHz banias, 512 MB RAM, 30 GB, wifi, X3 ultrabase with DVD/CD-RW and warranty till march 2008) - it was a good deal and I'll be upgrading to a 7k60 and an additional 1 GB stick. I intend to use it mainly as a machine I can carry to school everyday, some minimial simulations (and to carry on trips and conferences). I have a T60 at home on which I do my research simulations, and even though I don't need so much horsepower for my secondary machine, I decided to take it because I need a machine really urgently and this was the best deal when I bought it.

I don't see too many X32s on ebay (or on the forum for that matter) but from what I have read, apart from the processor upgrade to Dothan, the X31 and the X32 are identical (same chassis too!). And in general, the X32s seem to be a bit more expensive (my friend is looking between a similar-to-mine X31 and a 1.6 GHz Dothan X32 at ~ $700, warranty is only till Sep 2007 though). My vote was for the X31 since it is a very good laptop even today and it'd be more than adequate for what he is intending to do with it,, but he wants to 'future-proof' his systems and doesn't mind the extra cost of the X32.

In your experience, did you notice any other differences between the two models? Dothan has better battery performance than Banias, but apart from that, performance wise, is an 1.6 GHz X32 better than an identical X31?

[Ken Fox]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Ken!

I got a near mint X31 for $495 on ebay (1.6 GHz banias, 512 MB RAM, 30 GB, wifi, X3 ultrabase with DVD/CD-RW and warranty till march 2008) - it was a good deal and I'll be upgrading to a 7k60 and an additional 1 GB stick. I intend to use it mainly as a machine I can carry to school everyday, some minimial simulations (and to carry on trips and conferences). I have a T60 at home on which I do my research simulations, and even though I don't need so much horsepower for my secondary machine, I decided to take it because I need a machine really urgently and this was the best deal when I bought it.

I don't see too many X32s on ebay (or on the forum for that matter) but from what I have read, apart from the processor upgrade to Dothan, the X31 and the X32 are identical (same chassis too!). And in general, the X32s seem to be a bit more expensive (my friend is looking between a similar-to-mine X31 and a 1.6 GHz Dothan X32 at ~ $700, warranty is only till Sep 2007 though). My vote was for the X31 since it is a very good laptop even today and it'd be more than adequate for what he is intending to do with it,, but he wants to 'future-proof' his systems and doesn't mind the extra cost of the X32.

In your experience, did you notice any other differences between the two models? Dothan has better battery performance than Banias, but apart from that, performance wise, is an 1.6 GHz X32 better than an identical X31?

I think you got a good deal on your X31; enjoy it! I would definitely upgrade the RAM. If the 512mb you have is in one stick (which I doubt), then get another 512mb and you'll have a gig, otherwise the 512mb would increase you to 768 which should be adequate. In the latter scenario you will have to toss the 256mb module you remove.

I adored my X31 and had considered upgrading it to another X31 with more horsepower than 1.3ghz, before I spilled the wine on it. I thought about doing this because I was very disenchanted with everything I'd read about the X41, especially the 1.8" HD with a rotational speed of 4200rpm, which would make the machine a dog in my opinion, without the possibility to upgrade it. I had contacted IBM before asking if they were going to release an X32, which had been rumoured but repeatedly denied by them. The reason they were reluctant to do this was that you needed a new chipset for the Dothan than for the Banias.

So this gets me to your question about any other differences; I believe that the mobos on the two machines have different chipsets, and of course the processor types have different cache sizes (I believe Dothan is 2x Banias, e.g. 2mb vs. 1mb, correct me if I am wrong).

After the X32 was introduced, it seemed to stay on the market for only 2 months or so and was then discontinued. They must have decided that there wasn't very much demand for the product or they had trouble sourcing components and decided it wasn't worth the effort.

One of the best things about the X32 and X31 is the keyboard. It is much more responsive and nice to use than the keyboard on my T42.

ken

p.s. I'm not sure you can really future proof any laptop, as they are dated within a few months of production. That being said there is such a huge installed base of Windows XP that one should be able to continue to use it for at least 3-5 more years before device drivers for hardware become hard to find, the usual sort of stuff that makes one give up on old hardware. I guess you could run Vista on it but I don't know why you would bother. My warranty has expired although I have a free year's extension from having charged it on a Visa card (until June of 2007). I'm more concerned about physical damage than I am about the machine dying while it is still useful.

[gator]

Thanks for your answer, Ken!

I got a single 512 MB stick - apparently, the X31 was a CTO for some big company and it was used sparingly. It is a very good deal and I am happy about it. Your post also explains why X32s are so elusive to find - I did not know that they were on the market for only ~ 2 months! I will pass the information on to my friend so that he can decide. X31 is a solid laptop and even though its a tad bigger than the X4x and are called ultraportables, I see them as smaller T4x series machines

I am with you when you say you cannot future-proof a laptops; the market says 'keep updating or perish' and thats exactly what companies do. I am happy running XP on my systems - I am using the public beta of windows Vista at office, and I don't see enough reasons for me to upgrade either my T60 or the X31 for the work I do on my computer(s).

[Ken Fox]

Thanks for your answer, Ken!

I got a single 512 MB stick - apparently, the X31 was a CTO for some big company and it was used sparingly. It is a very good deal and I am happy about it. Your post also explains why X32s are so elusive to find - I did not know that they were on the market for only ~ 2 months! I will pass the information on to my friend so that he can decide. X31 is a solid laptop and even though its a tad bigger than the X4x and are called ultraportables, I see them as smaller T4x series machines

I am with you when you say you cannot future-proof a laptops; the market says 'keep updating or perish' and thats exactly what companies do. I am happy running XP on my systems - I am using the public beta of windows Vista at office, and I don't see enough reasons for me to upgrade either my T60 or the X31 for the work I do on my computer(s).

One other possible difference I forgot; the X32 has bluetooth and I think the X31 does not. Of course it just might be that my X32 has it and my X31 did not, don't know. I also don't use it so it is of no real value to me.

ken

[gator]

Neither do I. Also I don't have any device having bluetooth, and I dont foresee myself getting one in the future either

I do think it is possible to buy a Bluetooth daughter card for the X31 and replace the X31 clearplate with the bluetooth indicator to show activity.

[pianowizard]

This review says the X32 "is identical except for the CPU".

[gator]

Pianowizard,

I usually look into NBR for good reviews of all major laptop brands. In fact, they were the first to post a review of the Widescreen T60. I did see this link before, but thanks for refreshing my memory.

[Ken Fox]

This review says the X32 "is identical except for the CPU".

The reviewer is mistaken. The mobo for the X31 is incapable of accepting the Dothan chips, which require a different chipset and probably also a different socket (of that I'm not sure). Some modifications of the machine were necessary. After the X4x series came out, there was online discussion about whether the X31 could be updated to include the Dothan chips; the answer at that time was that the mobo would be incompatible for that, and only after they modded the mobo was the X32 possible, for its short commercial life.

If what the reviewer means is that functionally and cosmetically the machines are identical, he is right.

When I bought my X31, the 7200rpm Hitachi drives were not offered in any X31 configuration and they were not "supported." I slipped one into mine anyway and it worked fine, although I did worry about excess heat production even though this never happened. I don't know if there were ever any X31 configurations as sold by IBM that had 7200rpm drives in them as shipped. There were X32 configurations that did.

ken

[gator]

Ken, you have been very informative in your replies. Thanks!

[Ken Fox]

Ken, you have been very informative in your replies. Thanks!

Thanks for your comment. I have to add the caveat that although I've put a number of desktop systems together from components, my work on laptops has been limited to RAM, communication card, and hard drive swaps. I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment from hands on experience about things like notebook mobos and chipsets. I was an interested customer at the time however, and I do remember the discussions that took place before the X32 was introduced. The X31 and X32 are not unlike my old IBM 560 subnotebook, at least in form factor. The X40 was a radical departure from all of this and with its warts not something I had much interest in. Therefore, I was keenly interested to find out if there was a way to continue with an X31-like machine after it appeared that IBM was going in another direction with their subnotebooks.

I've never seen an X6x in person but my impression is that they have gone back to producing machines not unlike the 560 and the X31/X32 with the X6x.

ken

[losmeme]

IBM reference documents indicate that the X31 and X32 are identical, except for the processor. The processor cannot be changed, as they are soldered onto the motherboard.

Both machines carry the Intel 855pm chipset. The BIOs on both X31s and X32s are upgraded using a common file for both models.

The driver matrix here:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-43800
refers you to the X31 model for almost all X32 drivers.

From the TAW and TA Model References:

Intel 855PM chipset / 82855PM Memory Controller Hub (MCH-M) / 82801DBM ICH4-M I/O Controller Hub (ATA-100 EIDE, PCI bus, ethernet MAC, Low Pin Count (LPC) interface, USB [Bluetooth]) / Intel 82802AC Firmware Hub /PCI bus 2.2 32-bit, 33MHz (Ricoh® R5C522 CardBus/1394 combo controller, Mini PCI, ext expansion) / LPC bus 33MHz (PC87392 Super I/O for infrared [dock-based diskette, serial, parallel]

Beginning in 2004, the X31 started shipping with DDR2700 (333MHz) Memory. (Earlier machines shipped with PC2100), X32's shipped with PC2700 chips, but both models' pages indicate that the memory controller limits this to PC2100 speeds (266MHz)

The X32 was introduced at the end of the product cycle for this CPU/Chipset combo. IBM either couldn't get anymore Banias, or wanted to extend the life of the product line a little longer by using the Dothan, thinking people would go for the extra L2 cache. (The X40 was introduced a full year before the X32's started to appear.) IBM knew it had a winner, and wanted to wring every last sale out of the platform they could.

Banias= 1MB L2 Cache, 130nm process, 400MHz FSB
1st Gen. Dothan= 2MB L2 Cache, 90nm process, 400MHz FSB

The Dothan line was upgraded in early 2005 for use with the Sonoma chipset (It increased the FSB to 533MHz) But these revised Dothans never made it into the X32, even though they both were introduced around the same time frame.

I have an X31, and IMO is the epitome of what makes a ThinkPad a ThinkPad. I upgraded the ram to 1GB, and swapped the HDD out for a hitachi 7200RPM model. I blow my friends minds when they are allowed to use my X31 for awhile. They all have newer Dells, HP's whatever. My trusty 4-year old X31 blows their machines out of the water, and they are all left scratching their heads! For the most part, my T43 sits on a shelf!

[pianowizard]

I have an X31, and IMO is the epitome of what makes a ThinkPad a ThinkPad. I upgraded the ram to 1GB, and swapped the HDD out for a hitachi 7200RPM model. I blow my friends minds when they are allowed to use my X31 for awhile. They all have newer Dells, HP's whatever. My trusty 4-year old X31 blows their machines out of the water, and they are all left scratching their heads! For the most part, my T43 sits on a shelf!

Is the X31's speed the only reason you consider it "the epitome of what makes a Thinkpad a Thinkpad"?

[Ken Fox]

IBM reference documents indicate that the X31 and X32 are identical, except for the processor. The processor cannot be changed, as they are soldered onto the motherboard.

Both machines carry the Intel 855pm chipset. The BIOs on both X31s and X32s are upgraded using a common file for both models.

The driver matrix here:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-43800
refers you to the X31 model for almost all X32 drivers.

From the TAW and TA Model References:

Intel 855PM chipset / 82855PM Memory Controller Hub (MCH-M) / 82801DBM ICH4-M I/O Controller Hub (ATA-100 EIDE, PCI bus, ethernet MAC, Low Pin Count (LPC) interface, USB [Bluetooth]) / Intel 82802AC Firmware Hub /PCI bus 2.2 32-bit, 33MHz (Ricoh® R5C522 CardBus/1394 combo controller, Mini PCI, ext expansion) / LPC bus 33MHz (PC87392 Super I/O for infrared [dock-based diskette, serial, parallel]

Beginning in 2004, the X31 started shipping with DDR2700 (333MHz) Memory. (Earlier machines shipped with PC2100), X32's shipped with PC2700 chips, but both models' pages indicate that the memory controller limits this to PC2100 speeds (266MHz)

The X32 was introduced at the end of the product cycle for this CPU/Chipset combo. IBM either couldn't get anymore Banias, or wanted to extend the life of the product line a little longer by using the Dothan, thinking people would go for the extra L2 cache. (The X40 was introduced a full year before the X32's started to appear.) IBM knew it had a winner, and wanted to wring every last sale out of the platform they could.

Banias= 1MB L2 Cache, 130nm process, 400MHz FSB
1st Gen. Dothan= 2MB L2 Cache, 90nm process, 400MHz FSB

The Dothan line was upgraded in early 2005 for use with the Sonoma chipset (It increased the FSB to 533MHz) But these revised Dothans never made it into the X32, even though they both were introduced around the same time frame.

I have an X31, and IMO is the epitome of what makes a ThinkPad a ThinkPad. I upgraded the ram to 1GB, and swapped the HDD out for a hitachi 7200RPM model. I blow my friends minds when they are allowed to use my X31 for awhile. They all have newer Dells, HP's whatever. My trusty 4-year old X31 blows their machines out of the water, and they are all left scratching their heads! For the most part, my T43 sits on a shelf!

The X31/X32 are for me, also, the most solid, functional, and well built of the Thinkpads I've seen. I don't find it too heavy, and in fact spend a couple of months a year in France with it and carry it in a slipcase in a backpack all over Lyon (the McDonalds there, called "McDo" have free WiFi, a rarity in France). The keyboard is the best they ever made and all the newer ones I've seen have been a step backwards in terms of responsiveness and key travel. It is unfortunate that they didn't upgrade the video card and continue with the line.

The official IBM documents you refer to don't give the sort of detail necessary to either prove or disprove what was stated as fact before the X32 came out, that there were modifications needed to the mobo in order to accept the Dothan chips which is what stopped them from using them towards the end of the lifecycle of the X31. Whether that was just internet rumour, misinformed IBM tech support people, or what, it certainly was oft-repeated shortly before the X32 made its debut.

ken

[pianowizard]

Ken, watch out, you will soon be chided by the moderators for not trimming down the texts that you quote!

The X31/X32 are for me, also, the most solid, functional, and well built of the Thinkpads I've seen.

But that depends on what models you have used. Have you used the X60 or X60s?

[Ken Fox]

Ken, watch out, you will soon be chided by the moderators for not trimming down the texts that you quote!

The X31/X32 are for me, also, the most solid, functional, and well built of the Thinkpads I've seen.

But that depends on what models you have used. Have you used the X60 or X60s?

Yeah, I need to trim the quoted material. Point well taken.

I have not seen the X60 and made a comment in another post that it was my impression that X60(s) seemed, on the basis of reviews and specs, to be a return to the earlier IBM TP subnotebook roots, the best earlier examples of which, to me, were the 560 and the X3x.

Best,

ken

[boon]

another difference in x32 is its slightly thicker, at 1.18 inch while x31 is at .98 inch. personally I don't see much a pain having a little thicker but same weight and better performance. you can't upgrade these cpu's as they are soldered so I don't see any difference of whether can upgrade or not.

I think that's why they are called x32 model instead of x31 with dothan because of its different size.

overall x32 is just better and newer and a better choice over the x31, but depends on if its worth for you to spend the extra money for a dothan over a banias cpu.