X31 heat issue - update - problem: Firefox 2?

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#1 Post by **gator** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:48 pm

I monitored my system temperatures today, when I ran applications as well as when I let the system idle. This laptop definitely runs hot.

CPU temperature is always in the high 40s, and goes to ~61C. This happens when I am just browsing and listening to music on winamp, irrespective of whether I run the system with 512 MB or 1 GB RAM. I thought this was happening due to the 7k60 I put in the system ( I made a post abt it earlier), but the HDD temp. is in the high 30s most of the time. The fans kick in at around 59 C and stay on, and the temp reduces to low 50s again. This cycle keeps repeating.

In the ultrabase, the laptop gets real hot - 66C if I have the CD drive running or the high 50s if I let it idle.

Should I call Lenovo?

#2 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:50 pm

What power profile were you running? What was the CPU utilization?

As I read thinkpads.com, on dynamic switching, my CPU usage is very low, and CPU temp is 48C. And the X31 is on my lap, which increases temps. But the fan has not gone on since I came home tonight ...

#3 Post by **gator** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:22 pm

Power profile is a custom profile with adaptive cpu. HDD is set to 'quiet' and there is no process eating memory or accessing disk. The laptop is on a flat table with ambient temperature 75F. I can't use this laptop on my lap for more than 20 mins ... both the RAM area and the vent holes in the bottom (where the CPU are very warm to the touch. Even as I type, the CPU temperature is 50C, and the fans are on.

I can't figure out what is wrong

Ken Fox · #4 Post by **Ken Fox** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:31 am

gator wrote:Power profile is a custom profile with adaptive cpu. HDD is set to 'quiet' and there is no process eating memory or accessing disk. The laptop is on a flat table with ambient temperature 75F. I can't use this laptop on my lap for more than 20 mins ... both the RAM area and the vent holes in the bottom (where the CPU are very warm to the touch. Even as I type, the CPU temperature is 50C, and the fans are on.

I can't figure out what is wrong

I've never looked at the temps on my X32, which has run fine for a year and a half. The fan does cycle on and off, and when it comes on, warm air comes out. I find most any laptop too hot to place directly on my lap. I must have a lot of company or they wouldn't be selling all those cooling pads and lap desks for laptops.

I'm not sure that your X31 is running outside of specs (but then, I don't know the specs and I don't know what the range of acceptable temps are) for this laptop. I have noticed that the fan in my X32 is on a lot more than the fan in my T42.

Once again, though, it has never caused any problems. You have a lot of heat generating electronics in a very small package and the heat generated has got to get out of there somehow.

It would be interesting to see if someone else here is familiar with acceptable internal operating temperatures for this model.

ken

#5 Post by **tomh009** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:11 am

This morning, again laptop on my lap, currently at 43C. Admittedly it's not sitting quite flat on my lap, which would increase temps and decrease comfort (unless I had it sitting on a book, which I do sometimes). But it has been running for the past 12 hours non-stop, and the fan has yet to come on in that time.

One more check: what CPU voltages are you using, especially at the 6x multiplier (which is what gets used at idle)?

#6 Post by **gator** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:44 pm

Tom,

The CPU voltage at 6x is .956V.

mpcook · #7 Post by **mpcook** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:53 pm

Just as a point of reference, I have two X31's that both run pretty hot, similar to what you report. This is with 1gig ram and the 7200rpm drive.

#8 Post by **tomh009** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:48 pm

gator wrote:The CPU voltage at 6x is .956V.

I would suggest using NHC or RMClock to drop the voltage. My 1.6GHz (with 1.3GB and a 7K100 drive) uses 0.764V at 6x, and 1.324V at 16x. Currently running at 41C on my lap.

#9 Post by **gator** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:34 pm

I have not undervolted my CPU before - can you suggest setting for all the multipliers in NHC? I'd appreciate that a lot.

#10 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:27 am

I find that my system rarely runs on anything other than 6x and 16x so I haven't set the other multipliers at all. So I have ...

6x: 0.764V
16x: 1.324V

#11 Post by **gator** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:51 pm

I undervolted with the following settings:

6x - 0.764v
8x - 0.812V
10X - 0.908V
12x - 1.1V
14X - 1.212V
16X - 1.324V

The laptop runs much cooler now, averaging at about 35 C when idling. Thanks a lot for your suggestions, tomh009!

#12 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:33 pm

A cool X31 is a very cool thing -- enjoy!

#13 Post by **gator** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:27 pm

Well, the problem is back again on my X31. Even after undervolting, the system temp reaches 50C when I leave it idling for an hour or so.

tomh009, do you think I should report the problem to Lenovo?

#14 Post by **tomh009** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:00 pm

So does it happen only when you leave the system unattended? And it's OK when you are using it?

That would imply that something takes over and uses lots of CPU while you are not there. SETI@home? Desktop search? Something else?

#15 Post by **gator** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:52 am

The laptop is fine for the first 20 mins or so when I use it ... after that it starts getting heated up even if I simple leave it idling. I don't have any process eating CPU cycles - I don't have SETI or google desktop enabled either. I am puzzled as to why this happening even after I undervolted the CPU.

#16 Post by **tomh009** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:44 am

And the CPU usage in Task Manager stays low the whole time? Does this happen even if you are on the max battery profile?

#17 Post by **gator** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:25 pm

Yes - the CPU load is barely 2-4%, and the heating issue happens even if I use the 'maximize battery life' profile.

#18 Post by **gator** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:39 pm

I guess the problem might be due to the cpu vent that is below the machine, and it gets blocks if I place it on a table or the ultrabase. If that is the case, then this should be a widespread issue, but I dont see too many posts about it on the forum.

I am inclining towards asking for a m/b replacement from Lenovo if the problem continues, since I have almost done everything I can to check if anything is abnormal.

#19 Post by **tomh009** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:36 am

Tabletop shouldn't be a problem, really. Overnight temperature on my X31 sitting on a glass tabletop (good heat conduction) is probably about 38C, on a wood tabletop it'll be just over 40C.

I think it's worth a call to Lenovo.

#20 Post by **tomh009** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:56 am

One more thought ... apart from calling Lenovo, one more thing you could try would be applying Arctic Silver between the CPU and the heat sink. I haven't had to do that, but maybe you don't have good contact there, and that's why the temperatures start to go up.

#21 Post by **gator** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:08 pm

I have no experience doing that. I have onsite warranty on this machine and I think I'll call them and ask to send a technician over to look at the problem. Thanks for your help, tomh009.

#22 Post by **gator** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:24 pm

I think I figured what has been causing the problem. I was running the latest version of firefox 2 and it seems to the culprit. Whenever I start firefox 2, the temperature goes up by 4-5 C and stays there for a while. If I keep browsing and start multiple tabs, then the temperature keeps increasing and it begins to drop once I close the program (same happens in my T60 too, but just by 2-3 C).

I switched to using IE 7 (nice interface and font rendering, btw) and the temperature doesn't go up at all, even if I use the ultrabase for more than 2 hours. The temperature ranges are exactly around what tomh009 posted, and I am going to test this fully for the next two days before I place a call to lenovo.

Can someone else check if this theory is true?

#23 Post by **gator** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:42 pm

anyone?

Ken Fox · #24 Post by **Ken Fox** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:43 am

gator wrote:anyone?

I guess I just don't understand the point of all this stuff, obscessive monitoring of temperatures, undervolting, fan manipulations, etc. etc. on a laptop. OK, some of the T43s and T60s have fan issues that sound like a combination of some real machine defects combined with the sort of internet forum hysteria one finds in any enthusiast group

I installed Mobile Meter on my 1.8ghz model 2884 X32, which I'm using right now away from home on a family visit to San Diego. CPU temps run in the mid to high 40's (C) and the new 7K100 drive runs up to 39C. The fan is on for part of the time and off the rest, but is never very distracting. The machine has run like this and flawlessly over an 18month period and I've never had any hint of a hardware problem.

As far as I'm concerned, this is performance to specs, a machine that is doing what it is designed to do, and no modifications or tinkering from the factory bios or with various windows fan or power utilities is called for.

Please explain to me the error in my conclusions

#25 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:54 am

Just as with your choice of laptop or operating system, it all depends on what you are looking for. Some people's needs will be met with the factory config, others will need to do some changes afterward, whether it be installing Linux, switching to a different hard disk, adding a Firewire card, or tweaking the temps.

For me, I like silent computing: I don't want to hear a fan. I also don't like a computer on my lap if it's running at 45-50C. For those reasons, I have tweaked my configuration so that it achieves my goals.

I wouldn't want to force those changes on you, but I think everyone should have the right to choose what to obsess about.

#26 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:57 am

gator wrote:I think I figured what has been causing the problem. I was running the latest version of firefox 2 and it seems to the culprit. Whenever I start firefox 2, the temperature goes up by 4-5 C and stays there for a while. If I keep browsing and start multiple tabs, then the temperature keeps increasing and it begins to drop once I close the program (same happens in my T60 too, but just by 2-3 C).

I switched to using IE 7 (nice interface and font rendering, btw) and the temperature doesn't go up at all, even if I use the ultrabase for more than 2 hours. The temperature ranges are exactly around what tomh009 posted, and I am going to test this fully for the next two days before I place a call to lenovo.

I mostly run Firefox, but I really don't see a temperature jump, unless Firefox is using up a lot of CPU (using either a plug-in or a busy web site).

It doesn't make a lot of sense ... unless it really is using a fair bit of CPU time. After, say, 10 minutes in Firefox, your temps are up a fair bit. By that time, what Firefox's total CPU usage?

#27 Post by **gator** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:12 am

Ken, my laptop does run hot (than normal) and I don't want to ruin it by not deciding to notice it. I don't have an OCD to monitor my system temps - I just cannot help but notice the fans coming on and the laptop being warm/hot than what I think is normal, esp. when I don't see too many people mention it.

tomh009, I use 3 extensions for firefox - IE tab, ad block and flash block (I have these on all machines I own/use). Firefox consumes about 30 MB while having only a single tab open.

I have been extensively using IE7 for the last one week or so, and the system temperatures are very normal and similar to what you report (~35C idling on table, ~41C on lap and ~40C on light usage on table).

I can visibly see the temperature jump by atleast 2-3C and stay there the moment I open Firefox (using NHC). If I open multiple tabs, the temperature does go up. I verified this on a Dell Inspiron that my roommate has too, for both versions 1.5.0.9 and 2.

skanky · #28 Post by **skanky** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:30 am

check to see if its a certain website when the temps jump, for me if i have the page on a site with lots of flash, it ups the cpu usage (try task manager to check usage) and in turn the temps.

#29 Post by **gator** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:42 pm

hmm, the temp. jump occurs even I open just one tab in google. Pages like youtube with a lot of ads and flash content make it worser. Right now, using IE with 6 tabs open my temp. has been at 34-35C for more than 30 minutes. I cannot believe that firefox is the cause of troubles; I have been using it for a while and if not for luck, I would not have seen this at all.

#30 Post by **tomh009** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:07 pm

Well, I'm now curious enough that I'm going to try using IE7 for a little while ...

In Firefox, I run Flashblock (I hate Flash ads), Google toolbar and faviconize/tabs history/tabs menu.

X31 heat issue - update - problem: Firefox 2?

X31 heat issue - update - problem: Firefox 2?

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