Disappointing 15" Flexview screen

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Troels · #61 Post by **Troels** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:18 am

WPWoodJr wrote:Can you see the sparkle/grainy effect? I cannot.

Thanks for the pic!

Me neither, it looks perfect

WPWoodJr wrote:I've had two LG Flexviews in, one for evaluation and one that I bought. The only variation I detected was the one I bought was just slightly more reddish and it was a little brighter. But both were gorgeous displays. In terms of color response, I have the T42p UXGA and I can tell you that there is no comparison. The LG T60 Flexview has beautiful saturated color compared to the T42p, and it is brighter too.

That is another thing i don't get. The IDtech UXGA looks washed out in that picture, not only compared to the LG 15" SXGA+, but to me, even the IDtech 15" SXGA+ has much more contrast and vibrant colors.

WPWoodJr · #62 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:10 am

The T42p UXGA that I have is a great screen with accurate color, its just not as bright and saturated as the LG SXGA+. It was my favorite screen until I got the LG.

In Hoya's picture you can see how the Hydis 14.1" SXGA+ on the right is bluer than the ID Tech 15" UXGA on the left. Generally non-IPS screens are bluer than they should be.

http://home.att.net/~murphj/wsb/html/vi ... 04186.html

avesuni · #63 Post by **avesuni** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:21 pm

WPWoodJr wrote:
so maybe those of you with pretty good eyesight are seeing the pixels.

No pun intended, but maybe those of you with pretty bad eyesight just don't know the difference. I can see the grains on a 15" SXGA flexview from 3 feet (1 meter) away.

The graininess does not appear automatically with bigger pixels. I use an external 17" Eizo display with 1280x1024 resolution and with pretty big pixels, but I can't see the pixels unless I stick my face close to the display. Admittedly, the graininess does not seem to bother any other external displays either, but it is an issue with some notebooks such as Macs and the recent SXGA flexviews.

WPWoodJr · #64 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:20 pm

I can see the pixels on the LG 15" SXGA+ if I look for them. They don't bother me though.

The Mac only has 1440x900 resolution, so its pixels are even bigger. Another poster in this thread mentioned the Dell 24" monitor as being grainy. Compared to the 15" UXGA, it would also have relatively large pixels.

I'm not surprised the Eizo looks good. They are designed for demanding professionals and you get what you pay for.

WPWoodJr · #65 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:25 pm

I found this article from Dell which explains the sparkly problem:
Images May Appear Sparkly or Blurry with WUXGA LCD Displays.

Perhaps this is the same problem that some are seeing with the LG SXGA+ screen. I also read that the problem is aggravated by brighter screens, the LG SXGA+ screen is significantly brighter than my T42p UXGA screen.

npish · #66 Post by **npish** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:39 am

I just came across this thread and I figured I'd weigh in a bit; while I'm by no means disappointed by the quality of the FV display--the color reproduction is the best I've ever seen in a laptop display, by far--I am finding it difficult for my eyes to adjust to the grainy effect of the screen coating; as WPWoodJr's link specifies, this "grainy," "sandy" or "sparkle" effect is most certainly a product of the "textured coating" applied to the LCD that counters glare and allows for wide viewing angles; this effect is most clearly visible when dragging a lightly colored--particularly grey to white--window or dialogue box in a circular motion to emphasize the persistent quality of the physical surface "grain";

now I'm wondering about two things: first, for those who have or have had the benefit of seeing multiple FV displays on T60s, is this quality evident to, more or less, the same extent across different panels, or do some screens "sparkle" more than others? secondly, have people found settings or ambient lighting arrangements that seem to reduce this effect at all--such as adjusting brightness, contrast or even surrounding light? I've found that sometimes after staring at this screen for long periods of time I feel almost dizzy......

thanks for any further feedback;

dsalyers · #67 Post by **dsalyers** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:32 am

GeorgeWang wrote:There is a company sell refurb Hydis UXGA panel on ebay for $250, I am think about getting one and replace the LG Panel, this company is in NJ, about 50 minutes drive from where I live.

What do you thing, guys

Personally, I guess I would want to know what they mean by refurbished. Sometimes refurbished just means removed from another machine and seems to work. I would want to know what kind of testing or process they do to refurbish the screen.

JHEM · #68 Post by **JHEM** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:56 am

dsalyers wrote:
GeorgeWang wrote:There is a company sell refurb Hydis UXGA panel on ebay for $250, I am think about getting one and replace the LG Panel, this company is in NJ, about 50 minutes drive from where I live.

What do you thing, guys
Personally, I guess I would want to know what they mean by refurbished. Sometimes refurbished just means removed from another machine and seems to work. I would want to know what kind of testing or process they do to refurbish the screen.

You can get new Hydis 15" UXGA+ displays on eBay here for $289.

I have no personal experience with this vendor.

I can think of nothing that can be done to an LCD to refurbish it other than replacing the backlight.

James

#69 Post by **erik** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:12 pm

i may go the ebay route as my T42p's UXGA has what looks like dust spots in the background. lenovo might be able to warranty the screen but there's a good chance i'd get another ID Tech screen in replacement. the only other option would be to buy a new 15" T60p, get a boe-hydis screen from the link james gave above, and make my own UXGA T60p.

if the 14" T60p had dual link DVI ports then i could just get an external screen for home and live with SXGA+ when traveling. how much longer until lenovo gives us onboard DVI?

-erik

shalliday · #70 Post by **shalliday** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:22 pm

According to Lenovo Tech Support, to replace the T60 15in SXGA+ LCD screen with the BOE-Hydis 13N7076 LCD panel, the following is the list of parts you will need:

1 - BOE-Hydis 15" UXGA LCD panel (13N7076)
1 - UXGA LCD Cable Assembly (91P6858)
1 - SXGA+/UXGA 15" Inverter Card (42T0079)

Hope this is of some help.

WPWoodJr · #71 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:02 pm

Let us know how this turns out please when you replace it!

shalliday · #72 Post by **shalliday** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:42 pm

You bet. Hoping it can be done sometime next week. I will post back and let you all know how it turns out.

tamx0004 · #73 Post by **tamx0004** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:44 am

Shalliday, you may want to question the tech about that LCD cable assembly. Accoriding to a search on google 91P6858 is the the T4X series. I had a 91P6985 which appears to be the same one through out the T60 15" series. I got the part number from IBM document 42t7844_01.pdf

shalliday wrote:According to Lenovo Tech Support, to replace the T60 15in SXGA+ LCD screen with the BOE-Hydis 13N7076 LCD panel, the following is the list of parts you will need:

1 - BOE-Hydis 15" UXGA LCD panel (13N7076)
1 - UXGA LCD Cable Assembly (91P6858)
1 - SXGA+/UXGA 15" Inverter Card (42T0079)

Hope this is of some help.

WPWoodJr · #74 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:01 am

Which can be found at:
ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mo ... 844_01.pdf

shalliday · #75 Post by **shalliday** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:06 am

tamx0004 thank you for pointing this out. The parts list I posted was given to me by one of Lenovo's tech support who works in their Parts on Backorder department. He told me he was no techie so the 91P6858 LCD Cable Assembly being required very well be wrong. I will be sure to clarify this when on-site support swaps the two panels and post back.

hoya · #76 Post by **hoya** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:58 pm

I know this is an old thread but I've been researching the graininess/sparkle issue that's been discussed.

the LG FlexView T60 I received this month has minimal sparkle compared to the LG FlexView T42 I tried several years ago. it is roughly equivalent to the non-FlexView LG panel in my T60 widescreen: http://picasaweb.google.com/murphyja2/MacBookT60

pesce · #77 Post by **pesce** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:15 pm

The sparkle effect on my T61 is atrocious...I thought I might get used to it, but the more I use it, the worse it looks. It makes me dizzy and strains my eyes to look at the screen for any extended time period.

I'm returning mine as defective.

hoya · #78 Post by **hoya** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:33 pm

pesce wrote:The sparkle effect on my T61 is atrocious...I thought I might get used to it, but the more I use it, the worse it looks. It makes me dizzy and strains my eyes to look at the screen for any extended time period.

I'm returning mine as defective.

which model number are you using? do you know the manufacturer of the panel?

pesce · #79 Post by **pesce** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:47 pm

LG screen

WPWoodJr · #80 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:54 pm

hoya wrote:I know this is an old thread but I've been researching the graininess/sparkle issue that's been discussed.

the LG FlexView T60 I received this month has minimal sparkle compared to the LG FlexView T42 I tried several years ago. it is roughly equivalent to the non-FlexView LG panel in my T60 widescreen: http://picasaweb.google.com/murphyja2/MacBookT60

Great pics! That MBP LED screen looks really nice, a bit brighter than the T60 LG Flexview with better yellows and greens - although perhaps it has a bit of a green cast to it? But the LG seems to hold its own pretty well. The 15.4" widescreen T60 screen is clearly much cooler, not nearly as good color-wise.

How do you like that LED screen?

npish · #81 Post by **npish** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:26 am

I too have been concerned about the grainy effect of the coating on my LG FlexView panel; but honestly, looking at the panels on Macs makes me feel a whole lot better; I've looked at several MBP laptops, as well as large screen non-mobile Macs, and I've found this issue to be appallingly bad; text on my friend's 20" iMac is approaching unreadable;

as for those Picasa comparisons, again, I don't see much reason for praise for the MBP; I would take the Flexview in a heartbeat; I do wish it were available in widescreen format, though.....

pesce · #82 Post by **pesce** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:25 am

How are you able to tolerate it? My eyes start hurting in less than an hour (as though I've been staring at the screen for 15 hours straight)....it's like staring into a glittery/sparkly haze....

I've compared it to a couple notebooks, including my T42, and the T61 screen is really, really bad (other than brightness)

npish · #83 Post by **npish** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:19 am

pesce - it seems you're referring to the widescreen LG (i.e. non-FlexView) panel; if so, I personally have not seen one of those, so I can't comment; certainly, if it bothers you that much I'd return it;

I can only comment on the LG SXGA+ FlexView screen, and my question has always been whether or not this coating issue varies among specific panels, or if it's a constant, inherent quality derived from the manufacturing process; it does bother me after prolonged text-viewing, but I've gotten somewhat habituated to it;

I think that all matte screens have some degree of this effect (again, it derives from the anti-glare coating), but I also think that it's effectively heightened on higher resolution screens.

I still contemplate having my panel switched out for another just to compare, but we'll see.....I've also never seen another FlexView in person, so I just don't know.

tdphatak · #84 Post by **tdphatak** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:04 pm

Does anyone know if the 15" SXGA flexviews Lenovo is currently selling on the website with the T60s are any good? I'm debating between getting one of those or a UXGA from a reseller. Thanks.

#85 Post by **tomh009** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:27 pm

To clarify, those are ID Tech panels ...

tdphatak · #86 Post by **tdphatak** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:44 pm

The UXGA are IDTech right? Are the SXGA currently sold also IDTech? What is the quality like of the SXGA?

#87 Post by **tomh009** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:52 pm

Well, these particular UXGA panels appear to be from ID Tech ... some other models used Boe Hydis or LG panels.

npish · #88 Post by **npish** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:10 pm

as far as I know, ALL SXGA+ FlexView panels sold now, at for at least the last year (?) are LG; there are currently no other suppliers for the IPS screen besides LG (for new, direct purchases).....please someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

Puppy · #89 Post by **Puppy** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:03 am

hoya wrote:http://picasaweb.google.com/murphyja2/MacBookT60

Good pictures. Could you make another one with just black color displayed on the whole screen ?

Puppy · #90 Post by **Puppy** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:13 am

WPWoodJr wrote:How do you like that LED screen?

Since it is still crappy TN panel technology (just with different backlight) I don't like it at all

As for the grainy effect, I have 20" UXGA LCD monitor with A-TW-IPS panel made by LG.Philips. It has also such grainy coating but it is perfectly antireflective. After two weeks I don't mind the effect at all. Comparing to 15" SXGA+ IDTech panel (with no visible sparkling) the text on the LG panel looks more sharp. The text on IDTech is somehow more "blurry" than on LG, even though it has smaller pixel size. Note: I don't use any ClearType technology.

Disappointing 15" Flexview screen

current 15" T60 flexviews

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