Buyint a T42

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Temetka · #1 Post by **Temetka** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:37 am

I will be purchasing a T42 from e-bay (more than likely unless Bill can hook me up). I have some questions before I make a decision on which machine shall be mine. In no particular order:

1. The machines which feature the Radeon 9600 and UXGA (1400 x 1050) res on a 14.1" screen, can they be easily upgraded to a 15" screen @ 1600 x 1200?

2. If so what is the average price for said 15" LCD?

3. I want to leave to recovery partition intact. I also want to dual boot between Windows and Backtrack (www.remote-exploit.org). Will Lilo mess up the MBR so that the recovery partition is no longer useable?

4. I want the restore discs. I would like to upgrade the HD to atleast 100GB maybe more. I would also like to 'refresh' said HD so it has the recovery partition. How do I get the discs (don't mind buying them) and how do I re-create the recovery partition?

5. The Radeon 9600 should work with Vista (Aero) right? I only have Beta 2 and no T42 to test on (yet).

6. Do all T42's with my min. specs have Wifi and fingerprint? BT I can take or leave as I don't own any BT devices.

7. Assuming new 9-cell and Ultrabay battery, what should my runtime be at "adaptive" CPU? More than 6 hours? Less than 5?

Here is the machine I want? (Base specs)

Centrino 1.6 or 1.7 CPU
Radeon 9600 <--- a Must. FireGl would be great
1400 x 1050 minimum
DVD-Burner but can live with combo for now
512MB Ram (single Chip)
HD size not important. Would prefer 60GB+

I am hoping to pay less than $700. I think that is realistic given some of the auctions I am watching right now. Regarding those. The machines have a code like this: 2373-K1U. Which number will coincide with the base specs I am looking at? Meaning those #'s tell CPU and Video chip (along with a host of other data). I want to know what the range of #'s is for 1.6GHz+ AND Radeon 9600. Some sellers don't list the video chip or if they do they simply say ATI. That's not very helpful.

I have spent days combing over the forum here. I have gone back atleast 60 pages. I know I can upgrade to a 2.16GHz Chip. I know how to upgrade both RAM slots. I know what not to plug into the the USB ports. I know to put a little pice of tape over the Thinklight so it reflects on the keyboard, and not in my eyes. I know how to upgrade the HD.

I will more than likely be purchasing either friday or saturday. Hopefully sooner.

I appreciate those who respond with helpful information. Thanks in advance. I can't wait to have my 'new' T42 in hand and come back to the world of Thinkpad. (I will keep my Ti1GHz though, it's a sweet machine).

2668-AV7 · #2 Post by **2668-AV7** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:16 am

I will try to answer only few of your Qs, Temetka.

Please put down all your upgrade details with costs involved. Sometimes, upgrades end up with huge burdens on your budget.

For recovery partition, you can use Rescue and Recovery v3.1. In my case (T43p), it created 1 CD & 1 DVD for me. If you have a CD-RW, you may end up with 5 CDs. Sure, you can order the product recovery CDs from IBM (if it's still under warranty), it costs me AU$83 (media) + 16 (postage) for T41 few months ago. Somehow, I couldn't install Rescue and Recovery on T41 (not enough space bula bula error - no solution from IBM so far). So, I advise you to install Rescue and Recovery as soon as you have your ThinkPad, and try to make recovery CDs before you install other ThinkVantage Technologies programs. Then you could try to use those CDs on your new hard disk. I advise not to get rid of or sell your old HD till everything works as you planed.

For HD, if you could, it's better off with 7200rpm unless you need huge space for your work. I prefer to 40-60GB 7200rpm rather than 100GB 5400rpm HD. Perhaps, you can use your old HD as your backup drive (with 2.5" USB case) though!

If your budget is limited, please wait for a while for CPU upgrade, it's quite expensive comparing to speed gains (if your 1.6 or 1.7 CPU has 2M cache on it, it's more than enough)!. If i were you, I go ahead either RAM or HD first.

Ken

Temetka · #3 Post by **Temetka** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:41 am

Thanks. So if my T42 has the recovery partition intact, I can use the R&R software to create the discs?

Upgrades: (In order I plan on)

1. Ram: 1GB Stick under the keyboard, then move whatever it comes with to the second slot to make the future 1GB upgrade easier.

2. HD 100GB+ I think the areal density of the HD platters might mean faster disc access than a 7200RPM drive. I do understand that there is little difference in battery power consumation with 5400 vs. 7200 RPM drives. However as the Thinkpad will be my main machine, the amount of storage is important. I will more than likely e-bay myself the 2nd HDD adapter and slip the stock drive into it for more storage.

3. Better screen. Assuming I get atleast a 14.1" @ 1400x1050 I would like to upgrade later to the 15" flexview if possible.

4. CPU - This is the last item I will upgrade. The prices are too high right now. I can wait 6 - 12 months. I intend on owning this 'Pad for many years to come.

Eventually it will be a fully tricked out T42. However my immediate upgrades are simply the RAM followed by HD. The RAM will give me the largest performance increase as compared to a new shiny HD. If I don't get a DVD burner, prices are cheap enough I might pick one up in the next month or so.

EDIT: Costs. I am aware that a 1GB PC3200 stick is cheaper than the PC2700 variety. I plan to spend around $80 or so for the RAM. The HD should be around $125 or so. I don't know about LCD (If it can be done) or if I will even need to pick up a DVD Burner. The 9 cell battery can wait till later. At work and school AC is readily available. I will probably pick up a second AC Adapter just to make things a little more convenient.

So:

Can I upgrade from 14.1" to 15" flexview and gain the awesomeness of the 1600x1200 res?

What about lilo and the MBR?

Thanks again for the quick response. I appreciate it.

2668-AV7 · #4 Post by **2668-AV7** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:43 am

Yes, you've got quite good tips about your upgrade. Please go and have a look at this page for your hard disk purchase. It might be helpful.

2.5" Hard Drive Charts

This page is updated on a regular basis and provides a unique resource for everybody who is looking for a notebook hard drive - whether it is for home or for business use. Our service allows for interactive performance comparison, real-time price/performance and costs per Gigabyte analysis.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/storage25.html

Troels · #5 Post by **Troels** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:01 am

Temetka wrote: 1. The machines which feature the Radeon 9600 and UXGA (1400 x 1050) res on a 14.1" screen, can they be easily upgraded to a 15" screen @ 1600 x 1200?

UXGA is 1600x1200. SXGA+ is 1400x1050.
A 15" screen will not fit in the 14.1" chassis. If you want 15" UXGA, you'll atleast need to buy a T42 with a 15" screen. You may need a new ribbon cable if you upgrade to UXGA.

2. If so what is the average price for said 15" LCD?

No idea, other than i wouldn't trust ebay on this one. Lot's of sellers sell trash/compatible screens that are not flexview, and don't state this clearly. So be very careful

6. Do all T42's with my min. specs have Wifi and fingerprint? BT I can take or leave as I don't own any BT devices.

No. Wifi yes, unless it is a very basic CTO model.

The firegl is actually a little slower than the 9600 (typically ~2k slower than 9600 in 3dmark01) - maybe it is just driver differences.

IBMs model numbering system is quite a mess, and you can't read anything from it directly. You'll need the ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitu ... twbook.pdf to guide you. This applies to US machines only.

The $700 is stretching it for a 15" flexview, but they do happen once in a while... keep an eye out on the marketplace forum here

#6 Post by **carbon_unit** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:02 am

Changing to a 15 inch screen will require you to replace all the plastics, base, keyboard bezel, display housing and display bezel. If you want a 15 inch model you should start off with one.
If the recovery partition is intact you can make recovery discs and then do whatever you want with the hard drive. The recovery discs will recreate the recovery partition for you.
Not sure about lilo or the fingerprint reader.

pianowizard · #7 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:36 pm

2668-AV7 wrote:Please put down all your upgrade details with costs involved. Sometimes, upgrades end up with huge burdens on your budget.

I agree, and for that reason you may want to consider getting a T42p with 15" UXGA instead, to minimize the money spent on upgrades in the future. I have seen quite a few great T42p's (based on item description and buyer feedback) sold for only around $900US shipped on eBay.

Temetka · #8 Post by **Temetka** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:54 pm

I have seen a few TP 42 with the Radeon 7500 and 15" Displays. Are these flexview? I can pick up a motherboard and swap right?

I ask because $900 is a bit out of my price range. I was hoping for somewhere around $750 for the machine. I have another $250 set aside for upgrades. Sure I could drop it all on a T42p. However I am thinking that the FireGL might not be the best way to go for future purposes. From what I understand the Radeon 9600 is faster and is supported by Vista. I was only really interested in the FireGL because it had an extra 64MB of RAM.

I am looking at machine right now:

1.7GHz T42
14.1" XGA (which is 1024 right?)
512 RAM
Radeon 9600

The clincher is the price. Buy it now for $599. For that I could I could just get the SXGA screen later on and still be below my target of $750.

Here is one I am considering and here is a second one I am considering as well.

The second one for $689 has nearly everything I want. Higher res than 1024, wifi, Combo drive. However I am thinking I might want fingerprint. If I change the palm rest to one that has it, will I be able to use it? Does this motherboard have the TPM chip needed?

If not could you guys maybe help me out with some linkage to auctions with a machine that has atleast a Radeon 9600, UXGA and fingerprint?

I appreciate all the responses so far. I have to tell you, it's very hard not to hit 'Buy it Now'. It's so tempting. So very tempting. I am drooling just thinking about my new machine. I miss my old T23. It was a great machine. I have high hopes for the T42 which will very soon be replacing it.

dr_st · #9 Post by **dr_st** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:11 am

15" displays with Radeon 7500 are probably XGA, which means not Flexview. Only 15"SXGA+/UXGA is Flexview.

If you're thinking about Flexview, you CANNOT get a 14" model and later stick a 15" screen into it. You can get 15" XGA and upgrade later, that's true. But it will be considerably more expensive than just getting it in the first place.

So decide whether Flexview is that important to you. If not, 14.1" SXGA+ models are significantly cheaper.

Same thing about fingerprint reader - if you want it, get a machine with it. To me it's a feature that I haven't used even once, although it came installed on my machine. Even the Thinklight is more useful to me. If you're _thinking_ that you _might want_ it, you probably don't need it.

To answer another question - UXGA comes only in 15" size and only on T42p, which means FireGL, and more $$$.

Finally, the FireGL T2 is basically the Radeon 9600 with extra 64MB of RAM. And you can even install Radeon drivers on it. So it will be faster than the 9600 and supported by Vista too.

My humble opinion - don't get a system with intentions of upgrading core components later. It's just too much trouble and money. The things that you can safely and easily upgrade are RAM and HD, that's it.

Temetka · #10 Post by **Temetka** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:21 pm

Well I have listed some other items on e-bay. Assuming they go, I should be able to pick up a T42p which is what I really want. I have given it some thought. It makes sense to me get the biggest baddest model I can now and worry about upgrading the RAM and HD later. I completely agree that buying and then upgrading core components is a waste of time and money.

So the FireGl is faster than the 9600? Interesting. From what I have read on the forums here, there is conflicting views about this. The FireGL is a workstation class chip, and is better suited for rendering and such. Whereas the Radeon 9600 is a gaming chip and more consumer targeted. Each one is optimized for their respective target audiences. Neither chip is a sloucher though, both are quite fast. Plenty fast for what I need.

RE: Fingerprint scanner. I would like to have one. It seems like a nifty feature. Does it replace password login or work in conjunction with it. Besides, the inner sci-fi freak in me likes the idea of 'scanning' myself in. So let's say I pick up a T42p w/out fingerprint reader. Do all T42p motherboards include the necessary security chip? If not it's not a deal breaker and I'll just get the other model with the reader and chip.

Temetka · #11 Post by **Temetka** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:33 pm

Hey real quick like, and in a nutshell if possible:

What are the MAIN differences between a T41p and a T42p?

I am finding T41p's on e-bay for less than $900 shipped! They have everything I want except for the uber-rare 15" Flexview display. That's fine with me. 1400x1050 will work plenty fine for me.

So minus a couple hundred dollar price difference between a T41p and T42p what are the major underlying drawbacks?

Is the FireGL in the T41p the exact same chip in the T42p?

I ask because of crazy auctions like this one. That seems like a real sweet machine.

1GB of RAM, decent HD, and a sealed box w/ 3 year warranty?!?

I can buy it now. I am soooo tempted.

So please, please, please, someone help me out here.

Also I will have the ca$h to upgrade this to a 2.16. Can this machine go that high?

Also aren't there 2GB PC2700 SODIMMS out? Would they work in a T41P thus giving me, 4GB?

Thanks in advance to whomever responds.

dr_st · #12 Post by **dr_st** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:12 am

Temetka wrote:What are the MAIN differences between a T41p and a T42p?

T41/p uses older Banias CPUs, which are clock-for-clock slower than the Dothan CPUs used in T42/p. But you _can_ upgrade to a Dothan and it will work, because the chipset is the same. So that's good. However, read more carefully what I'll write below about an upgrade.

Also, T41/p does not come in 15" size, so no Flexview, as you've noticed. But there are advantages to the 14" models too - they are lighter and have better battery life.

Temetka wrote:Is the FireGL in the T41p the exact same chip in the T42p?

Yes.

Temetka wrote:I ask because of crazy auctions like this one. That seems like a real sweet machine.

1GB of RAM, decent HD, and a sealed box w/ 3 year warranty?!?

I can buy it now. I am soooo tempted.

Seems like a great deal indeed.

Temetka wrote:Also I will have the ca$h to upgrade this to a 2.16. Can this machine go that high?

Yes and no. You can upgrade to a Dothan, but it MUST be a 400MHz-bus Dothan. These go as high as 2.1GHz, in steps of 100MHz. You cannot use a 533MHz Dothan, like in the T43, and of course you cannot use Core Duo / Core 2 Duo, like in the T60.

Temetka wrote:Also aren't there 2GB PC2700 SODIMMS out? Would they work in a T41P thus giving me, 4GB?

There's an issue with only 3GB being addressable by Windows or something. Never owned that much, so don't know the exact details. You don't need more than 2GB, and whatever you could do to use that much RAM, would probably be overkill for the other components of the system (CPU/GPU).

Good luck.

Temetka · #13 Post by **Temetka** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:06 pm

So if I were to get the T41p, and upgrade the CPU it would essentially be a T42p right? Sure I understand no FlexView but that's ok.

What type of Dothan chip do I need? Pentium M 760? 755?

The chips I have looked at seem to be anywhere between $125 and $300. I am thinking about maybe a 1.8Ghz chip would be fine for now.

Also, is the seller Thinkpad World any good? Has anyone here dealt with them?

It's either this laptop (from my previous post) or the one in the market place I am interested in. That one has 15" but I might be concerned about battery life.

As soon as I have just a few more answers I will be making my decision. Then I get to buy and wait for a package to arrive.

Talk about anxious!

Temetka · #14 Post by **Temetka** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:27 am

MAJOR UPDATE:

I am no longer looking to buy a Thinkpad!

I have purchased this fine machine.

Why a T41p?

1. 128MB FireGL Chip
2. Upgrade CPU later (next 6 - 9 months)
3. 6 month IBM warranty. Plus 3 Mack International Warranty
4. Factory refreshed and sealed

It's essentially brand new. It seems like an excellent value for my hard earned dollar.

Things I intend to do when it arrives:

1. Drool
2. Clean up drool
3. Add some AS5 to the CPU and HSF
4. Fire it up
5. Create a set of R&R discs before I do anything else
6. Partition and install factory image, then vista (on a separate partition)
7. Revel in my total domination (not really, but it sounds cool)

I would like to thank the Thinkpad community here for their excellent support and assistance with my never ending line of questions. You have once again proven extremely helpful. I received excellent support with my T23, and again with my soon-to-be T41p.

I am so happy and excited and nervous and anxious right now!

It should arrive by friday. I can hardly wait!

Troels · #15 Post by **Troels** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:18 am

That's a REALLY nice machine you have bought there for a good price - congrats!
Now, i don't hope youre planning to make a 15" UXGA fit in there.. then you're going to be disappointed

Temetka · #16 Post by **Temetka** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:20 pm

No I have no plans for a 15" Display. I almost bought a 15" unit from another forum member over in the market place. In hindsight however I am glad that I did not. One of my main concerns is battery life. The 14.1" display will be nicer on my battery than would a 15". I did pick up a machine with the 1400x1050 resolution though.

That 128MB FireGL chip will come in very handy. I plan on running Vista RC2 (it's the latest version I have). I have heard that some machines can qualify for an express upgrade to Vista. Would this happen to be true for my machine? If not, I'll have to figure out a way to get a student discount on the Vista Ultimate. My other bonus is that OpenGL certified chip. I will be using linux on this machine a lot. From what I understand a lot of programs will runs very nicely on this setup.

I have started to list some other items on e-bay. This is to cover the purchase of a CPU upgrade to Dothan. So toss in another $200 or so and I'll essentially own a T42p! yay! I might hold on to the original CPU for warranty reasons. Would upgrading the CPU myself void my lovely warranty that comes with the machine?

I am so stoked. Now I am just searching / browsing e-bay for Thinkpad related goodies. I already have a very nice messenger style bag for the machine. Just looking for other items. Nothing specific in mind.

Temetka · #17 Post by **Temetka** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:28 pm

These remanufactured products are sold by IBM with a S-Claim classification, which means that they are in excellent
new/ near new condition.

What exactly is an S-Class Claim Certification?

Just curious.

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