Something smells funny here

[Lazarus]

Now is it just me or do the specs this merchant lists for his T43p indeed not jive with Lenovo's own account of the facts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Thinkpad-T43p-2 ... ZViewItem]
vs. Lenovo
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... yle=lenovo

I've never heard of a 256MB ATI Firegl 3200 before, specially not in a T43p.

At that price his (refurbished!) system is way over the edge, so maybe he needed to get some of that edge back here.
But I think he's just making this up...

[GomJabbar]

Just glancing at several versions of tabook, I see the: ATI MOBILITY FireGL™ V3200 / PCI Express x16 / 128MB GDDR1 memory in the T43p. I do not see any 256MB versions in the T43p.

EDIT: Your ebay link did not work for me. So I went to ebay and looked for a T43p with the above specs. I found this one: T43p

Type: 2687 | Model: D5U | Serial number: L3BZ413

One month old ThinkPad T43P Intel Pentium Centrino Mobile tech (2GHz), 2GB RAM, 80GB 5400rpm HD, 15in 1600x1200 LCD, 256MB ATI FireGL V3200 CDRW/DVDRW, IBM 802.11abg wireless, Bluetooth/Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 9c Li-Ion, WinXP Pro and Office 2003.

Yet a search for the 2687-D5U brought up this page on PriceGrabber: T43p

Installed Video Memory: 128 MB
Video Chipset: ATI FireGL V3200
Video Bus: PCI Express x16

[Troels]

Old dirty trick.
The 256MB is due to HyperMemory, which allows usage up to 128MB of the camparably high latency system memory. The Firegl has 128 MB of it's own dedicated memory.

[Lazarus]

Old dirty trick.
The 256MB is due to HyperMemory, which allows usage up to 128MB of the camparably high latency system memory. The Firegl has 128 MB of it's own dedicated memory.

So you are saying that the 256MB consists of 128MB ATI + 128MB System RAM?

But I never found that TP graphics card use that kind of hybrid memory usage.
Its either an integrated or a dedicated card.

And the ATI SW center displays the video ram as 128MB, not 256!

[GomJabbar]

AFAIK, you are correct Lazarus.

[christopher_wolf]

That is the ATI HyperMemory in effect, the only dedicated VRAM options are 128MB and 64MB on the T43p and T43, respectively. It optimizes a quickly accessed section of system RAM such that it can use it in the event it needs to optimize a large amount of graphics operations. I have noticed this on my T43 as well and the discrepancy in the ATI center versus the Display Properties as well.

For me, the display properties states 256MB even though I *know* I have a 64MB X300 ATI Radeon. There should be *no* T43p with a v3200 256MB ATI Radeon FireGL.

[Lazarus]

...
For me, the display properties states 256MB even though I *know* I have a 64MB X300 ATI Radeon. There should be *no* T43p with a v3200 256MB ATI Radeon FireGL.

For me that is fraud!
If they advertise a 256MB Graphic's card then they should delivery such a device or reveal that only 128MB/64MB of that is real physical graphics RAM!

Its more honest to say its an integrated card, because then at least the tech folks know that it means all of it is system RAM.

But here *nothing* stipulates to the deception, it just says "256MB ATI card".

If that ain't fraud then I don't know...

I mean Lenovo's own web site is not that sneaky.
They openly differentiate between real and "unreal" graphic's RAM.

[GomJabbar]

That's interesting about the Hypermemory. I knew about the Intel GMA 900's use of system memory, but I was ignorant of ATI's use of it. I just went to ATI's site to find out more about it. Below are a couple of links.

http://ati.amd.com/technology/hypermemory.html

http://ati.amd.com/products/mobilityfir ... index.html

Obviously I was not fully up-to-date on this. Well now I know more than I did this morning.

[christopher_wolf]

...
For me, the display properties states 256MB even though I *know* I have a 64MB X300 ATI Radeon. There should be *no* T43p with a v3200 256MB ATI Radeon FireGL.

For me that is fraud!

That's mostly ATI coming up with a new technical implementation while the documentation is a little scarce, to but it mildly. As for the eBay seller? That *is* being dishonest and should be rectified expeditiously, or so we can hope.

As an aside, the GMAs always use system memory by definition but HyperMemory is not the same and optimizes a portion of system memory to aide in computational tasks undertaken by the ATI GPU if it needs it; else it just keeps is, more or less, on standby....I guess it simply wasn't mentioned in the forums often enough for a search to pick it up and digest it easily, which probably led to some thinking that there was a T43p with a dedicated amount of *256MB* VRAM in the hardware and the ensuing confusion.

[Lazarus]

...
As an aside, the GMAs always use system memory by definition but HyperMemory is not the same and optimizes a portion of system memory to aide in computational tasks undertaken by the ATI GPU if it needs it; else it just keeps is, more or less, on standby....I guess it simply wasn't mentioned in the forums often enough for a search to pick it up and digest it easily, which probably led to some thinking that there was a T43p with a dedicated amount of *256MB* VRAM in the hardware and the ensuing confusion.

But there is a difference between "dedicated" and "integrated" graphics memory.
The ATI is a dedicated card (opposite to the Intel Integrated), meaning it has its own seperate video ram, which is not just important for the overall amount if RAM available, but also makes a significant difference in performance for video heavy applications.

So a 128MB ATI card is that much faster in terms of video performance than a 64MB or 32MB card.
And when someone advertises a 256MB card, he leaves the impression that this is some kind of superfast card.
Matter of factly that unit actually only has 64MB of dedicated video RAM.

But at the end of the day, you end up with your usual slow croach.

[christopher_wolf]

Well, yes... of coursethere is a difference between dedicated and integrated, nothing non-obvious about the dedicated VRAM cards versus the integrated ones.

The *size* of the VRAM doesn't not directly correlate to the speed of the GPU. There are GPUs that can do more with less memory simply because they are clocked faster or can do more at once. There isn't too much more of a difference between the 128MB and 64MB cards besides more memory and slightly different cores. I have examples of high-mem video cards that do horrendous jobs at gaming and lower-mem video cards that do a much better job at the same games and renders. True, the VRAM size does help out alot when doing serious renders, but it isn't the only end all of GPUs just like clock speed isn't the end all of CPUs either. Although that is an aside for now.

[Lazarus]

...
The *size* of the VRAM doesn't not directly correlate to the speed of the GPU. There are GPUs that can do more with less memory simply because they are clocked faster or can do more at once. There isn't too much more of a difference between the 128MB and 64MB cards besides more memory and slightly different cores....

I must disagree. Given that the GPU clock speed and core design are comparable, the size of the dedicated video RAM is directly related to graphic's speed during complex(!) operations.
And I'm not just making this stuff up here, during a recent test in the German CT magazine they tested hundreds of video cards and found that to be one of the main performance enhancers, once GPU clock speed and core design were exhausted.
Of course you can always mess up a huge dedicated RAM layout with a lousy core design, but given both are equal, the RAM size is the one thing that matters.

If not for that, then why should graphic board manufacturers bother with dedicated Video RAM anyway?
They could just as well go the way of the WinPrinter and dump it all the CPU's doorstep (meaning use integrated RAM only and save themselves a lot of tech headaches).