T60 vs Macbook

[defjux]

I currently own a T42, and I love it more than any computer I've ever used. Unfortunately, it's beginning to show its age, so I'm in the market for something faster. I'll admit to having an unreasonable attachment to IBM: I love the look, the feel and the prestige behind the computers. But if the switch to Lenovo has degraded all the qualities I love in a thinkpad, then I want to think seriously about other companies.

The macbook is sort of a quintessential computer. It runs mac and windows very well (I'd love for someone to prove me wrong about this, but the time I spent playing with XP on a friend's Macbook was pretty convincing), and the build quality is very nice. I love the screen, I can live with the keyboard, and it's an close as I've seen to an Thinkpad without being a thinkpad. So, in all of your expert opinions, what should I get and why?

[brentpresley]

I currently own a T42, and I love it more than any computer I've ever used. Unfortunately, it's beginning to show its age, so I'm in the market for something faster. I'll admit to having an unreasonable attachment to IBM: I love the look, the feel and the prestige behind the computers. But if the switch to Lenovo has degraded all the qualities I love in a thinkpad, then I want to think seriously about other companies.

The macbook is sort of a quintessential computer. It runs mac and windows very well (I'd love for someone to prove me wrong about this, but the time I spent playing with XP on a friend's Macbook was pretty convincing), and the build quality is very nice. I love the screen, I can live with the keyboard, and it's an close as I've seen to an Thinkpad without being a thinkpad. So, in all of your expert opinions, what should I get and why?

After going from a T42 to a T60p, I can honestly say that I don't miss the T42 one bit.

The T60 is every bit, if not more, built as well as the T42.

Don't ask me about macs. I hate them and I hate Apple in general (and don't have the time to list all the reasons why).

[pianowizard]

I used a friend's MacBook for several hours just last week and found it to be very solid. But it has two major problems: its native resolution is only 1280x800, and it's very heavy (5.2lb) for its small size.

Regarding whether Thinkpad quality has gone downhill since Lenovo took over, some say yes but others say no. I think what that means is Thinkpad quality has become variable. If you're lucky, you can receive a unit that's as well made as the best Thinkpads from the IBM days, but if you aren't, you may get one with squeaky palm rests, a dim display, a noisy fan, etc.

[jjfcpa]

I currently own a T42, and I love it more than any computer I've ever used. Unfortunately, it's beginning to show its age, so I'm in the market for something faster. I'll admit to having an unreasonable attachment to IBM: I love the look, the feel and the prestige behind the computers. But if the switch to Lenovo has degraded all the qualities I love in a thinkpad, then I want to think seriously about other companies.

The macbook is sort of a quintessential computer. It runs mac and windows very well (I'd love for someone to prove me wrong about this, but the time I spent playing with XP on a friend's Macbook was pretty convincing), and the build quality is very nice. I love the screen, I can live with the keyboard, and it's an close as I've seen to an Thinkpad without being a thinkpad. So, in all of your expert opinions, what should I get and why?

Let me start off by saying that I would never bash Thinkpads. I've used them for over 10 years and they are the cream of the crop.

I own a T60 that is one excellent laptop; however, I recently (3 months ago) purchased a Macbook Pro and since then, I've retired my Thinkpad to a shelf in my office. The Macbook Pro allows me to continue to do my Windows development via Parallels, and also experiment with OS X, which is really very, very interesting.

The Macbook Pro has a great build quality and well, just works. Kind of like my Thinkpad did. Yes, there are some things that work differently; after all, it's a Mac, but there are other things that work better... after all, it's not Windows.

Money was not an issue for me, so I decided to take the plunge and see what happened. Now that I've taken the plunge, as long as Apple keeps making such a lightweight, sweet looking laptop, I'll probably stay with them.

BTW, I tried the Macbook for a couple of weeks, but decided that the 1440 X 900 native resolution of the Macbook Pro would be more suitable for my development needs. At the office, I hook it up to a Dell 24" widescreen LCD via the build in (are you listening Lenovo) DVI connector and it will use the native resolution of the Dell at 1920 X 1200 even when in Parallels.

The one thing that really sold me on this setup was Parallels. It runs Windows better than a Thinkpad does. I just love using Firefox on a Mac at the same time I'm running Windows in Parallels.

But the real clincher for me was the size and weight. I simply could not find a lighter, smaller form factor 15.4" widescreen laptop from any other vendor ... PERIOD. Since my laptop is with me constantly, this was very important and clinched the deal. I still visit Dell, HP, and Acer's website checking on new Windows PC's but I haven't seen anything that comes close. The new 15.4" widescreen Thinkpad is intriguing, but I'm still sold on the Macbook Pro as the best for my needs.

I hope this information helps you in your decision.

[pianowizard]

I simply could not find a lighter, smaller form factor 15.4" widescreen laptop from any other vendor ... PERIOD.

The HP nx7400 15.4" widescreen laptop is exactly the same weight as the 15.4" MacBook Pro (5.6 lbs), has a WSXGA+ option (1680x1050), and a new one costs as little as $1,050 (or only $879 for 1440x900). It looks thicker than the MacBook Pro though.

[stephanpark]

I would really have liked to run some applications on both T60p and MacBook Pro. No such comparo out there.

Build quality is down a slight bit, and I've owned 3 Thinkpads.
1. ExpressCard slot is squishy right at the palm rest?
2. DVD rattles like a Bi Plane on take off. (taking it in)
3. Quality inconsistent apparently (Apple though is having these as well)
4. Absolutely nothing revolutionary about the product design or hardware features.

Maybe Thinkpad's strength is its conservative resolve to build the highest quality not on unproven tech? I don't think so. When IBM was at the helm, their notebook division didn't trade off innovation for quality, they gave both at a very high price. I believe IBM sold off the personal PC divisions because it couldn't achieve profit with its core ethics extended to that market any longer.

I believe Lenovo, being the primary contractor to manufacture Thinkpad for I don't know how many years had the best chance of the short term quality control...but in the long term, I believe they will reasonably diverge from what founded the Thinkpad brand ethic. An ethic that is no longer viable in what has become a commodity rather than a premium market.

So where has Apple found the methods to make an equally well built machine in the MacBook Pro? I'd probably need a MBA to understand how. The way it stands for me, it costs less for features, is build at least as well if not better, has design and details that scream of intent and care.

If you want a nice black power suit, Thinkpad is and hopefully will always be the one and the only. But if you give me one performance report showing the MacBook Pro running Rosetta XP Pro is actually level or faster than the T60 with the same CPU, RAM and Harddrive...hell, I got the return box handy.

Marriages are about compromise and loyalty, but in my opinion, neither product nor brand should ever be given that luxury.

That all said, Guiney Pig anyone?

[seeplus]

I love the screen, I can live with the keyboard, and it's an close as I've seen to an Thinkpad without being a thinkpad. So, in all of your expert opinions, what should I get and why?

Macbook Pro 15.4":
It's been ~10 months since first using my girlfriend's Macbook Pro 15.4". I bought my t60p after sending her Macbook back to apple for the second time.
- It makes a number of intolerable noises
- MBP gets far too hot to have anywhere near your lap (I am not exaggerating)
- It has thrown sparks from a fried power cable,
- The screws fall out of the titanium shell all the time
- It has a crumby keyboard
- The lid/lcd falls all the way back at the slightest provocation (despite two "tightenings" at the Apple store)
- And low resolution screen that looks sandy. (Seriously; what's with the ultra low resolution screens on these? I work in graphics, no thanks.)

On the bright side, the screen has excellent color and viewability, and is the brightest I've seen on a laptop.
-The aesthetics of its' design are second to none.
-It runs MacOS. (but so does my t60p.. :)
-The keyboard is back-lit.
-Excellent battery life.
-Integrated camera is cool.
-Firewire


c2d T60p 15" SXGA+ w/IPS:

-The keyboard
-The screen
-Solid as a rock
-It's black
-It's fast
-The keyboard.

Hope this helps :)

[brikeh]

c2d T60p 15" SXGA+ w/IPS:

-The keyboard
-The screen
-Solid as a rock
-It's black
-It's fast
-The keyboard.

Hope this helps

I love how you got the keyboard in twice there

I had some SERIOUS issues with my MBP C2D and the replacement was even worse, seriously the screens on those things are awful and buildquality isnt very good at all, I switched back to a TP and Im happy I did.

[brikeh]

Oh and dont get me started on the MacBooks

[ronan_zj]

My experience from T42 to T60.
I still love my T42, coz it light weight, and no fan noise. On the other hand, T60 is well build, its solid!!!! I can only say I am ok on my T60: 1). a big buzzy noise from LCD when I dim the screen, and the problem can not be fixed even I get my LCD replaced. Also, I met another ppl having same problem got motherboard, lcd replaced, but still the problem wasnt fixed. ( so , I should say I give up, maybe one day I will call IBM again). 2.) LCD is bright compared to T42,( I know, they are made by different factory). 3.) Fan kicks on frequently. If I place 3D game, the Fan runs at high RPM and never goes down even I leave there for an hour( my suggestion here is if u dont play big 3D game or CAD design, u should consider about integrate graphic card instead of X1300 and X1400 which result high GPU temp). 4.) well, T60 IS SOLID!!!!!!!!!!
I am not sure about MacBOOK, maybe I should say apple has Notebook, not laptop.!!! 1.)one day, I got an electric shock when I tried to touch the Macbook pro keyboard and under screen area which generate huge heat!!!! in Apple store. 2.) I am not sure new C2D macbook pro, but I know CD macbook generate huge heat after an hour regular use. thats why I say macbook is notebook instead of laptop.

[stephanpark]

Hm. Really.
At first blush, the T60 was a bit, well, expected. It looked too similar to the T42 that I felt a bit cheated...that's until I started multitasking applications on top of each other. The MacBook is as slick as *!@# words escape me, and has the same basic hardware specs (as well the entire industry it seems). Wait, it's power should n't be a comparative advantage then.

OK, I'll come clean...I hate, HATE the white lcd lid hinges. HATE.
And no DVI on a power user laptop? I mean, isn't this thing's life about, work in cube/office, go meeting, go flight, go conference, go meeting, go flight, work in cube/office, repeat? I guess the bay would be a bit silly to have on the move huh. Shoot, argued against myself and lost. Yeah, I like the docking station much better. Who the hell wants to fiddle with cables when they're waiting on you in Building 3? Bugger!

Unfaithful thoughts are not breaking of the vows are they? (psst, she can hear if you type on her!)

[brentpresley]

For you guys bashing Lenovo and thinking IBM is better . . . I've got some sobering news for you.

I personally know a fellow that was on the T4x design team here in RTP, NC.

He is ALSO on the T60 design team.

When IBM sold the PC business to Lenovo, they turned around and bought a 40% stake in Lenovo. They also entered a contract so that 1) the design teams (and where they are based) will not change and 2) the assembly lines that the laptops are made on will not change.

So, you guys can blame it on a lot of things if you want, but those two thing DID NOT change from the T4x series to the T60 series.

I've owned and worked on a LOT of T4x series laptops, and for every 5 you find that are well-built, there was one that was a piece of junk (flexing motherboard causing shorts, AC input failing, etc.). The same applies to the T60. The main difference I see is that the T60 is a better (evolutionary?) design with the roll cage.

The ONLY thing I miss from my T42 is the NMB keyboard. My T60 is superior in every way (and keep in mind, my T60 was built completely from SPARE parts).

Just my 0.02.

[zigver]

I'd say go for the T60.

Last month I was looking for something to replace my T42p UXGA. Not because there was a problem with it, but because I wanted something faster and I could let my wife use the T42p.

I was considering the MBP and the T60. If the T60 still came with UXGA, it would have been a no brainer. But it didn't so I walked into a Macstore and checked out the MBP. First off, I think the screens can't compare to the TP. Second, I really have issues with how flimsy the hinges are; just barely shake the MBP and the sceen wobbles. Maybe this is no big deal in the grand scheme, but it bugs me none-the-less. Overall, I just wasn't as impressed when I compared it to my existing T42p.

So I took the plunge and ordered a T60p w/IPS. At first I wasn't happy with the screen resolution (because I was critically comparing it side-by-side with the T42p UGXA). I even threw it up for sale here on the forums. But once I stopped looking back at the UXGA sitting right beside it and just used it, I quickly got over this hangup. The build quality of this T60p compared to my T42p is at least as good except for one area...the lid. It isn't as reinforced and it flexes more when I open it than on the T42p. Everything else though is great and it's much, much faster (I only run Gentoo linux on both). One thing to note, the fan is a tad louder but not to the point that it bothers me.

[christopher_wolf]

[quote="zigver"]I really have issues with how flimsy the hinges are; just barely shake the MBP and the sceen wobbles. Maybe this is no big deal in the grand scheme, but it bugs me none-the-less. Overall, I just wasn't as impressed when I compared it to my existing T42p.
/quote]

Well, it is a big deal;as an aside, you shouldn't get any laptop that has hinges that have a considerable throw/deadzone from either the rotary resistance mechanism within the hinges or from the mount point. The latter of which will cause flexure and progressively get worse.

Every laptop that has had a problem similar to that, that I have seen, will end up getting worse and worse over the long run until the risk of the frame base or the hinge attachments breaking is a real possibility.

[stephanpark]

defjux,
In case I wasn't clear. I decided to keep my T60.

Oh, and for the long term outlook for the Thinkpad team. I cross my fingers. Knowing where to go for the best bagels in town, then seeing the new owners screw it up happens. Not unlike hegemonies waning and new ones taking its place...it just happens. But I like my bagels, hope these new owners don't screw it up. (silver lids will be forgiven, cuz there was that TransNote thing but now I'm nagging)

[RUSH2112]

At one point, I owned both a T43 and a MacBook. I kept the MacBook for about 3 months before selling it. I have no problem with OSX (it has its quirks like every os, but its pretty decent imo).

- The hardware was not good enough. I could say it was better than an HP or a Dell, but no where near as good as a thinkpad
- No trackpoint, plus I was getting tired of having to two-finger tap to right click (c'mon apple, just make it 2 buttons)
- Glossy screen doubled as a mirror, plus the thing bounced like a dell
- Heat, worse than even my current x60s
- Poor battery life. they advertised 6 hours, i rarely saw more than 3

I also sold it to get some money for the X60s, which had about 2 days left on the back-to-school sale (which saved me over $700).

[NS]

I will go with T60. It is a steady and solid workhorse.

[pianowizard]

When IBM sold the PC business to Lenovo, they turned around and bought a 40% stake in Lenovo. They also entered a contract so that 1) the design teams (and where they are based) will not change and 2) the assembly lines that the laptops are made on will not change.

But I don't think that will guarantee that the quality of Thinkpads won't change. For example, the same design teams could change the way they design Thinkpads, and people working at the same assembly lines could get sloppier.

[soliton]

I've had my T42 for just about 2 years now and it was probably one among the last batch of IBM-branded machines (just before Lenovo took over -- its kind of a memorabilia from the IBM days). I have absolutely no regrets as to the quality of its hardware, though I'm not aware of current quality of Thinkpads. However, I'm very much considering a Macbook Pro simply for simply the benefit of OS X. I can handle babysitting Windows (AV, Firewall, Malware, Crapware, even to some extent Registry bloat), but I can hardly take it when in spite of all the TLC, a reboot takes about 4 minutes to complete, waking from hibernation can sometimes take more than a minute, on waking from hibernate/suspend Firefox and/or Thunderbird that I like to keep open would start using 100 % CPU resources, terrible memory management typical of Windows... the list goes on. And no, I won't format the hard disk and reinstall the whole 40 Gb of application/data residing on it every 6 months -- thats just too much pain.

So, if I end up moving to the 15.4" MBP, its grainy LCD pixel density and single-button mouse notwithstanding, it will be because of OS X.

my 2 cents.

[Rwang]

Soliton, it is clear that you don't know how to handle your windows. By all means, go to OSX, and see if it's worth it. Personally, I bought a macbook and returned because the keyboard and the mouse pad are just not easy to use. OSX is pretty cool though.

If you want to stay with windows, I'd recommend a drive image program like acronis trueimage, and norton ghost. Then you will need only install a system once, and restoring takes less than a minute. As far as your booting taking 4 minutes, you got driver issues. My T40 (older than your T42) takes less than a minute using XP.

[soliton]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but:

Soliton, it is clear that you don't know how to handle your windows.

Rwang, I'm really intrigued by that statement. After all, I've so far used and managed Win 95, 98, 2000, XP along with Solaris, FreeBSD, Linux and Mac OS X for about 8 years now. There must be something I have learned

I can sure make my thinkpad boot in a minute, by removing all the AV, firewall, disk defragmentation, network backup daemons, hdd motion sensor, not to mention IBM/Lenovo's CSS (for biometric authentication/encryption), but I'd also lose all the critical functionality all these "peripheral" but nevertheless essential softwares provide. Its always a question of trade-off. On the other hand, OS X provides much of the same functionality integrated, and still boots in less than a minute! See the difference?

As for using TrueImage or Ghost, I currently use Retrospect and I'm pretty sure it can achieve whatever the first two can (if not more), but again, simply restoring applications in a fresh Windows install without restoring the registry (with all its associated bloat and issues that slow the system down) doesn't do much now, does it?

As for "driver issues", I guess I'll just have to re-write every offending driver myself

I'm no Apple fanboy (neither a Microsoft hater, I swear by Office), but here's an article that explains the architectural advances in OS X quite nicely...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... on/columns

[Rwang]

As for using TrueImage or Ghost, I currently use Retrospect and I'm pretty sure it can achieve whatever the first two can (if not more), but again, simply restoring applications in a fresh Windows install without restoring the registry (with all its associated bloat and issues that slow the system down) doesn't do much now, does it?

Sorry if you feel offended. I was merely trying to help. If you know the above, then you know that incremental backups from the first fresh install will solve your bloatware problem, or at least keep it under control since you know what you have installed at each step. I am sure you are such a computer guru to know what I am talking about. Your original post sounded like you were complaining about windows OS rather than Thinkpad. And I am not disagreeing with your accessment about OSX.

[jjfcpa]

I'd say go for the T60.

Last month I was looking for something to replace my T42p UXGA. Not because there was a problem with it, but because I wanted something faster and I could let my wife use the T42p.

I was considering the MBP and the T60. If the T60 still came with UXGA, it would have been a no brainer. But it didn't so I walked into a Macstore and checked out the MBP. First off, I think the screens can't compare to the TP. Second, I really have issues with how flimsy the hinges are; just barely shake the MBP and the sceen wobbles. Maybe this is no big deal in the grand scheme, but it bugs me none-the-less. Overall, I just wasn't as impressed when I compared it to my existing T42p.

So I took the plunge and ordered a T60p w/IPS. At first I wasn't happy with the screen resolution (because I was critically comparing it side-by-side with the T42p UGXA). I even threw it up for sale here on the forums. But once I stopped looking back at the UXGA sitting right beside it and just used it, I quickly got over this hangup. The build quality of this T60p compared to my T42p is at least as good except for one area...the lid. It isn't as reinforced and it flexes more when I open it than on the T42p. Everything else though is great and it's much, much faster (I only run Gentoo linux on both). One thing to note, the fan is a tad louder but not to the point that it bothers me.

If you shake any laptop the screen will wobble to some degree. Come on guys - there's a trade off between wanting to carry around a CEMENT BLOCK and an elegantly engineered laptop.

I invested money in an Advanced Docking Station, extra batteries, extra AC adapters, and a slim hard drive cradle, and I still decided that the Macbook Pro offers something the Thinkpad T60 can't.

A couple of years ago I bought 6 T42's for employees in my office - this was after Lenovo took over. Without one month, 5 of the six had to go back for depot service and two of them had dead pixels that Lenovo would not authorize a screen replacement for.

In spite of this, I would still say that if you were going to buy a Windows laptop, then it is the one to go with. But if you want to buy a really lightweight, great looking, versatile laptop, then a Macbook Pro is a better choice. I love the keyboard, love the screen, love the two finger scrolling (can't find that on any Windows laptop, and yes, it's better than the trackpoint), and I love the innovation that Apple has incorporated into their products. I only wish Dell, or Lenovo, or HP, would offer some of these features and I'd be looking at them.

One more thing... I've had more problems with Thinkpads and networks that any other laptop I've ever owned. And I've NEVER seen a laptop that behaves as well with networks as my Macbook Pro.

I never thought I'd be recommending a Mac over a Windows laptop, but I'm really impressed with the C2D Macbook Pro's. And believe me, they don't have heat issues any more. It runs as cool as my T60 does and boots Windows (in Parallels) in less than half the time... go figure.

[dsalyers]

In early November I ordered a z61p (2.0Ghz - 1.5GB ram). In late December Lenovo called and told me that it probably wouldn't ship until middle of February. I canceled the order and picked up an Apple MacBook Pro (17" - because I needed the higher SXGA+ resolution). The next day Lenovo called to say that they had shipped my z61p. So, I got to play around with both for a bit before I decided which one to keep. While both machines were good, here is what I thought the pluses and minuses of each system were:

Apple Macbook Pro 17"

Pro:
2.33 Ghz Processor
2 GB Ram
160 HD Disk
sleek machine, linux based OS.
Parallels - very good (probably the best I have used) virtualization software


Cons:
1 - button mouse - yes I know you can emulate the right click, but I find it annoying especially with the fact the 17" macbook is not exactly hurting for space to put one.

Could not get Linux to run natively (some people have -- I had no luck) I had a problem where the keyboard would not be recognized at the initial GRUB loading screen.

With the new wireless card apple uses, I could not change any advanced options (max trans rate, max number of retries, ect....). This is very useful for the research I do.

large size and weight.

Doesn't come with a WUXGA option


For the z61p:

Pros:
Lower cost.

I have no problem with the build quality -- Mine is study and I like the overall feel. Although I do think my wife's t60p is built a little better.

More compact at 15.4"

longer battery life (I have the 9 cell battery)


Cons:
You have the windows tax

The screen looked nicer on the Apple (so does my wife's t60p's screen)


Overall, the wireless issues really killed it for me, although I realize that this would not be an issue for most people. I really was a deal killer for me. Also, the Apple was substantially more expensive -- although the z61p would have been more with the same processor and amount of ram, I did not need the highest processor, nor did I want to pay the premium for it.


Most of the same comments are true for my wife's T60p (which is what I would have ordered had they not stopped offering a UXGA screen for it -- supposedly they will in March, after the final arrangements are made with their new 15" UXGA supplier)

[gpgofast]

I've never owned a Mac but have recomended them to friends and family. I feel they are a GREAT high performance machine. After reading the following self help web site, I don't think I will be recomending them anymore. I had no idea it was so difficult to upgrade, RAM, Hardrive, etc... in one.

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook-Pro/


Every recent laptop I've owned, I've changed SOMETHING over the years I've owned the machine. My Compaq X1000 has a new drive, additional RAM, upgraded wireless card and added a DVD burner(which I had to flash the firmaware to make the "Toshiba" drive think it was a "HP/Compaq" drive. I would have no problems upgrading the processor if I felt the need. Same goes for my new T60p. I wouldn't have the same level of confidence with the Mac. My .02 cents. GP

[WPWoodJr]

... on waking from hibernate/suspend Firefox and/or Thunderbird that I like to keep open would start using 100 % CPU resources

This is a known bug in earlier versions of the Flash plug-in for Firefox. Either get the latest version of flash (I believe it is beta version 9) or, do what I did, which is to install the FlashBlock plug-in which I love.

[pianowizard]

I finally had a chance to play with a 17" MacBook Pro at a local Apple store yesterday, and found it incredibly well built. Considering how wide it is, I had expected at least a little bit of flex, but I found none. So I agree with the OP's comment that they are the "quintessential computers". In terms of quality, I think the MacBook is comparable to the Thinkpads, whereas the MacBook Pros are a notch or two better. If these MacBook Pro's had higher screen resolutions, and if I had more dispensable money, I would definitely switch from Thinkpads to them.

[dino]

The deal breaker for me on the MBP is the one button. I love the thinkpad's three buttons and it is very useful to use the middle button with tab browsing.

[nxman]

I would say that both MAC & ThinkPad are great machines
If you want a business machine go for a ThinkPad and if
You want a multimedia machine go for a MAC!
I cant switch from a ThinkPad because I'm used to it
specially the keyboard i played with the Macbook pro
for sometime and its a great notebook i think both
are premium quality products i hope they stay this way.

[archer6]

I had no idea it was so difficult to upgrade, RAM, Hardrive, etc... in one. Every recent laptop I've owned, I've changed SOMETHING over the years I've owned the machine.

As a die hard ThinkPad advocate and one who focuses on being open to change, I will say that the MacBook & MacBook Pro is certainly a step in the right direction for Apple. However in my opinion, they shortchanged the public when they kept the same aluminum housing for the computer. The wiggly hinges are indeed an issue, as it was on the previous Titanium model. Some keyboard problems are beginning to surface, as well as the already known heating issues, etc. Some of these issues still remain unresolved.

That said, I use an aluminum Powerbook for some of my personal work, so the only point being I'm not bashing Apple.

For all of my business work I use ThinkPads, and have been using them for a very long time. There is simply no subsitute if you want a very reliable laptop with a good track record and comprehensive support. And I'm not talking about just the repair station if you will. I'm talking about all the resources that are available online from Lenovo.

As far as build quality is concerned, my new (Lenovo) ThinkPads are every bit as well made if not better in some cases, then all the IBM Thinkpads I have purchased for myself and my company over the years.

Is ThinkPad service and support perfect? No. Is it inconsistent? Sometimes. This, I believe is rather typical for a company of the size of IBM/now Lenovo. I also attribute some of the inconsistencies to the growth and expanded sales volume.

However after it's all said and done, I rely on my ThinkPads to do the mission critical work. I could be more satisfied with the level of reliability and support that I have experienced over the years.

If I was to have just one laptop, there would be no hesitation it would be a ThinkPad Hands Down!