X60 2GhZ so HOT under the right hand!

[Dothan]

Hi all,
i wanna know your impressions about x60 core 2 duo 2ghz.
I've bought this laptop and i upgraded ram to 2GB and hard disk to 160GB. It's really powerfull, light and reliable, but i'm very disapointed for one very big problem. When i use it after 5minutes I can't put my rigth hand on the chassis (over IBM logo) to lead trackpoint because is very hot... I use my notebook for 8 hours a day, i've every worked with subnotebook (before thinkpad, I had hp nc4010) and really I never had this problem.
I don't want a big keyboard on my desk!!
Any suggestion?

Regards, MCS

p.s. I bought a x6 ultrabase and i've 2nd monitor. I asked if keeping close for long time my X60 when it's turn on, may damage the display that is so near to the part of chassis so hot...

[pianowizard]

I think the built-in wireless card is the culprit. A solution is to disable it and install a PCMCIA card instead.

[Ken Fox]

Mine has a 1.83mhz Core Duo, and it is also hot under the right palmrest, hot enough to be annoying. I have seen comments from others in these forums mentioning this problem. Actually, I think it is a feature, like seat warmers in a car on a cold day.

It isn't so hot that I can't use it but it is very noticeable and not something I cherish.

[sugo]

With tpfancontrol utility, what is your APS temperature?

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17715

[Ken Fox]

With tpfancontrol utility, what is your APS temperature?

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17715

I don't know to whom you are referring, but if to me:

I don't use TPfancontrol, but I did load mobmeter. All the temps are rather low. I'm at my desktop, right now and can't check, but I was suprised how low they were, in the 30s and very low 40s, nothing above that.

[sugo]

Sorry, I was asking both Dothan and Ken Fox.

Mobilemeter can only tell cpu and hdd temperatures. Tpfancontrol provides APS temperature sensor reading which is closely related to how hot right palmrest gets.

Early X60s owners complained on the high right palmrest temperature. The APS reading goes beyond 60'C.

[lev]

There are many many many postings on this issue in the archives of this forum, search and you will see that you are not alone. To save you reading through all of those postings here is my summary:

1. The wireless card sits under the right palmrest and seems to be responsible for most of the heat;
2. The "APS sensor" reading from the tpfancontrol utility is fairly correlated to the temperature of the palmrest (but not identical)
3. Nearly everybody notices that the right palmrest gets at least a little bit warm when wifi is switched on
4. For some people it is more than just warm, and is actually uncomfortable
5. In at least one batch of machines, where the temperature was much higher than the usual, Lenovo acknowledged a fault, and repaired the machines under warranty. In this particular case it appears that the fault was not with the wireless card, since the main boards of the laptops had to be replaced.
6. Some people claim the Intel wifi cards produce more heat, other people blame the Atheros wifi cards. Few people get to compare both of them side-by-side.
7. The default configuration of the Intel wireless cards is to use a power-saving feature when the laptop running from the battery, and to disable the power-saving feature when running from the AC adapter. This means that the palmrest is usually cooler when running on battery. It is possible to alter the settings so that the wireless uses the power-saving mode at all times, and most people find that this makes the palmrest cooler. However, the power-saving mode may be incompatible with certain (broken) firmware revisions of access points (but you might be able to ask your hardware vendor for an updated firmware for your access point if this affects you). You can change this power-saving feature by opening the profile in thinkvantage access connections, going to the wireless settings tab, and pressing the advanced configuration "settings..." button, and changing "power save mode" to "High (best power savings)".
8. The amount of heat might be affected by which of the battery options you use, because at least on the X60s, the batteries affect the airflow through the laptop by blocking certain of the vents depending on the battery, and some batteries lift the laptop off of the desk.

Check whether turning off wireless makes the heat problem go away. Assuming the problem for you is the wireless card, then I recommend setting the wireless power-save mode first, and if that doesn't help then the second thing to do is you could try asking for warranty service from lenovo, and if that doesn't work a third thing to try is a usb wireless adapter.

[Dothan]

Thanks all,
now:
1) i disabled wifi (i'm using wired lan on the dock)
2) i disabled BT
3) i'm not using battery (i'm using AC power from dock)

but the problem persist.

The fancontrol log:
[22/01/2007 13.41.56] Current Config:
[22/01/2007 13.41.56] Active= 0, Cycle= 5, FanBeep= 1200 30, MaxReadErrors= 10
[22/01/2007 13.41.56] IconLevels= 50 55 60, IgnoreSensors= XXX,YYY,ZZZ
[22/01/2007 13.41.56] Levels= 47°C -> 0, 50°C -> 3, 55°C -> 4, 60°C -> 7, 70°C -> 0x80


APS 48
CPU 68
GPU 67
BUS 50
PCI 50

[sugo]

Have you tried using your X60 without docking station but still on AC power?

[FredFromNYC]

Dothan, the temperatures you report are not extraordinarily high. On the contrary, APS temperatures below 50 degrees are quite good. Please read this thread to learn more: Wifi card heat problem.

[Dothan]

Thanks,
now out the docking power on AC (without battery) CPU is 40° set in lowest mode by power manager and APS is 56° with wirless lan turn on and in maximum power saving. Anyway the impression is the palmerest is hot like before (when was 45°).
I'm very disapointed because the notebbok is cold in all other part...is hot ONLY where i should keep my hand for all day.
It's very big error, I think!

[pianowizard]

1) i disabled wifi (i'm using wired lan on the dock)
but the problem persist.

Someone told me that the WiFi needs to be already off before you turn on the machine in order to get the palm rests to cool down. In other words, if you turn it off while you're already in Windows, it won't help as much. Sounds strange, and I haven't tried it, but you may want to give it a try.

[think2much]

I've got an X60 2 GHz Core2Duo, and the right palm rest gets a little warm but it's never been hot. I've had the X60 for a little less than one month. I've got the Atheros wireless card. Whether it's running on AC or battery, docked to the Ultrabase or not, it keeps relatively cool. MobileMeter shows the CPU temp at 35 degrees when idling.

[Spif]

By setting power management to high in Acces Connections and some other setting (don't recall which at the moment) to 10%, my right palmrest stays almost as cool as the left.

[Ken Fox]

I've been doing some testing on my X60, core duo 1.83ghz with Intel card and 2gb RAM.

As initially set by Lenovo, with wireless card power set on Medium, I had APS readings in the high 40 degrees C. I found this uncomfortable. I then played around with moving it to high power for testing purposes and was able to get the APS reading as high as 52-53C after a series of long file transfers and file installations (I installed and upgraded Acrobat Reader, which needed doing anyway). This was VERY unpleasant on the right palmrest.

Since then I set the power setting at low (maximum power savings). I have been able to maintain the internet connection in my house. I'm just doing normal stuff and no huge file transfers. In this setting the APS is reading 43-44C, and the CPU 44-46C (highest reading of all things measured). At idle for more than half an hour, the APS read 41C but quickly climbed to 43-44C once I started using the laptop.

I can tolerate the right palmrest now, but to be honest I don't like typing with it this warm, even at 43-44C. My X32 is as cool as can be on both palmrests. I'm assuming that my X60 is performing to specs and there is nothing that can be done to improve readings like these.

Finally, for those adjusting these wireless settings for this reason: my own experience indicates that once the palmrest gets hot, changing the wireless card settings without rebooting will not cool it off. You need to turn the laptop off and let it sit a few minutes to cool off somewhat, and then reboot with the lower power setting having been set. I found that once the palmrest got very hot (with a high APS sensor reading) that changing the power setting did nothing to reduce the palmrest or APS reading. A reboot was necessary.

ADDENDUM: With additional and longer use, I'm seeing CPU temps up to 51C and APS temps up to 47C, with reduced power to the wireless card. Does anyone think this is fixable (I'm inclined to doubt it and maybe just I'm more sensitive to this heat than some others)?

[sugo]

Ken, my readings are fairly close to yours. It's an X60s with intel 3945abg. It gets to 41-44'C on APS during web surfing (AC power, no battery). CPU is around 42-46'C with fan constantly on at level 1. BIOS version is 2.05.

I don't find the X60s being too warm, but my T42's right palmrest was definitely cooler, even with a hard drive there.

[Ken Fox]

Ken, my readings are fairly close to yours. It's an X60s with intel 3945abg. It gets to 41-44'C on APS during web surfing (AC power, no battery). CPU is around 42-46'C with fan constantly on at level 1. BIOS version is 2.05.

I don't find the X60s being too warm, but my T42's right palmrest was definitely cooler, even with a hard drive there.

To me, this is a design flaw. My X32, which is basically the same sort of notebook as an X60, lacks this "feature" (heat therapy for the right hand). I guess if I did a lot of processor intensive stuff with my notebooks (especially subnotebooks) I'd notice the improved performance of the X60 vs. the old X32, but it is not hugely apparent.

Fortunately, I don't normally use a subnotebook at home and tend to use them mostly while travelling for periods up to maybe an hour to an hour and a half at a time. If I used the X60 for hours on end I think it would really bug me.

[makaveli559m]

Ken, my readings are fairly close to yours. It's an X60s with intel 3945abg. It gets to 41-44'C on APS during web surfing (AC power, no battery). CPU is around 42-46'C with fan constantly on at level 1. BIOS version is 2.05.

I don't find the X60s being too warm, but my T42's right palmrest was definitely cooler, even with a hard drive there.

I know this is an old posting but I hope you can reply back, I was wondering how did you manage to get it running that cool?