which t4x for linux?

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toad · #1 Post by **toad** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:56 am

Hi,

I recently sold my TP600E (just a tad too slow...) and an old Toshiba that was hanging around which means I've got enough dosh now to start investing into a decent bit of machinery!

Thing is I will not want Microsoft to run on the machine - I had Kubuntu on the old TP600E and am therefore sort of Linux savvy but are there any special things I should look out for in the T4x series?

Also, am not sure which one to go for. Basic requirements command 512 MB Ram, at least a combo drive and 5400 rpm hard disk. Rest I can sort out myself (upgrade wlan, etc.). The one thing I am interested in more than speed is battery life.

Any hints or tips from people in the know will be most welcome!

Cheers

Ingo

djpharoah · #2 Post by **djpharoah** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:51 pm

I have used linux on my thinkpads for the last 5 years. Thinkpads have the BEST hardware support in linux amongst all the laptop manufacturers.

The only "downside" is Thinkpads come with ATi video cards which dont have good driver support in linux.

Any T2x, T3x, T4x series laptop would be fine in linux.

#3 Post by **carbon_unit** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:44 pm

Just be aware that the T43 has installation issues with some distros.
The T43 has a SATA-PATA Hard Drive interface that makes installing linux "Interesting" sometimes.

dkpw · #4 Post by **dkpw** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:27 pm

djpharoah wrote:I have used linux on my thinkpads for the last 5 years. Thinkpads have the BEST hardware support in linux amongst all the laptop manufacturers.

The only "downside" is Thinkpads come with ATi video cards which dont have good driver support in linux.

Any T2x, T3x, T4x series laptop would be fine in linux.

True - although ATi suppot is getting better.

For example, SLED 10 offers an approved download source for both ATI and Nvidia drivers which, once your card is detected, will install and configure the drivers for you during installation.

Temetka · #5 Post by **Temetka** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:52 pm

Any T4x series machine is more than enough for Linux.

I do second the "beware of the PATA-SATA" bridge on the T43 series of machines.

T40 and T41 use Banias processors
T42 and up use Dothan processors

Dothan is more efficient and features a 2MB Cache instead of 1MB found on the Banias CPU.

I run WHAX on my T41P and it runs great.

toad · #6 Post by **toad** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:05 am

Thanks for all your replies.

I take it then that there are no special issues one should be aware of (such as sound and modem on the 600E).

As long as suspend to RAM/disk works properly I reckon I'll go for a T40 as its considerably cheaper than its counterparts. As I said in my first mail, speed is not the issue (anything is going to fly after a 333MHz processor!) but battery time is.

Cheers and once again thanks for your help!

Ingo

Temetka · #7 Post by **Temetka** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:41 am

Some distro's have issues with ACPI / APM so take that into account. If battery time is important I would suggest the 9 cell battery for you.

Also a plug for Fedora or SuSE as those 2 distros have never let me down.

toad · #8 Post by **toad** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:52 am

I'm not really a fan of rpm based distros, been through the rpm hell once too often

I'll give Kubuntu a try (distro of choice at the mo) once I get my hands on the T40...

tom lightbody · #9 Post by **tom lightbody** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:05 am

well, toad, let me speak up for a wee downgrade:-)

if you're happy with touchpads, then the t40's for you: yet remember *nix manages machine resources so much
better than *you*know*what* that all that horsepower really is un-necessary: the 600e does just fine.

the machine IBM pre-installed *nix on was the t22 (caldera); this t22 2647-9EU runs debian 3.1 zero
problems: SXGA+ screen is nice. As my wifi is a USB dongle, I can elevate it on end of a 5m extension to
improve reception over anything built in. It's up in the rigging now, on a spinnaker pole lift.

and the price is right: 1 t22 + 1 t23 prob < 1 t40

and not a touchpad in sight (some t30s also: not the SXGA+ models). Aside from "idle thumb," for sure the
great whacking touchpad hole weakens the case.

best in *nix

toad · #10 Post by **toad** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:20 am

Greetings down under,

the 600e worked on xubuntu, but switching between open office (yep, had to go for the big one because of fancy formatting stuff which abiword wouldn't do) and firefox was a pain, especially if you had kontakt running at the same time (go and make yourself a coffee in between

).

You got a point with the touchpad, I'm no big fan either. Hadn't thought of that big whacking hole weakening the case - makes a lot of sense... But the dirty deed is done and I've gone and purchased the t40 (hasty you say? I can't wait!!!) spending a good €100 more than I would have done on a T2x.

Glad to hear from a Debian man though. Did you get all the suspend stuff working? If so, did you document it

? Or is it out of the box stuff... Whatever, I'll be writing again when I stumble across first signs of misbehaviour.

Tata for now

tom lightbody · #11 Post by **tom lightbody** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:19 am

t40 congratulations: lean, mean, fast:-)

> ...600e OO...

well, yes, hopeless: a long strong coffee:-)

> ...suspend...

rarely running on battery, I disable this: for I hate it when I'm reading your post onscreen, and the machine
shuts down. Reminds me too much of the "I know best" behavior of *you*know*what*

to check on the when-installed battery, I use the old APM facilities; eschewing ACPI that is yr suspend
powerhouse. Shouldn't be hard.

let us know how you get on, the Big Storm being kind dn yr way, I hope

toad · #12 Post by **toad** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:00 pm

Right, proud owner of a T41 (I thought it was a T40, but turned out to be a little bigger

)

Chucked XP away as soon as I got it and replaced it with Kubuntu. Everything worked out of the box (suspend to RAM, hibernate to disk, etc.) but the modem. Got that working thanks to a superb winmodem ubuntu wiki (google that and you'll find it).

What a machine! Quicker than my desktop with less specs! Only problem is that I got the "bad" Intel card wifi b standard card (2100).

I've been wanting to replace it with an Atheros chip card, but read somewhere that you need the flash the BIOS for it to be accepted!?

Is that info bollocks or the bee's knees?

#13 Post by **Johan** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:49 pm

toad:

I don't know much about about Linux on ThinkPad's, but I know of one forum which might provide you with some useful info; check:

"ThinkWiki, the Wiki Web for ThinkPad users. [Here] you find anything you need to install your favourite Linux distribution on your ThinkPad" --> http://www.thinkwiki.org

Kind regards,

Johan

spikex34 · #14 Post by **spikex34** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:05 pm

^^thinkwiki is great. Ubuntu 6.10 has worked pretty well for me on the T43.

rmh · #15 Post by **rmh** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:58 pm

Hmmm, Good to know about the ThinkWiKi site, I've been using the Linux on Laptops site (http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ibm.html for IBM laptops) for years.

HTH

rmh

toothandnail · #16 Post by **toothandnail** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:29 pm

toad wrote:Right, proud owner of a T41 (I thought it was a T40, but turned out to be a little bigger )

Chucked XP away as soon as I got it and replaced it with Kubuntu. Everything worked out of the box (suspend to RAM, hibernate to disk, etc.) but the modem. Got that working thanks to a superb winmodem ubuntu wiki (google that and you'll find it).

I've got a T40 (somewhat modified) which is running XP and Zenwalk Linux. Haven't got the modem working (don't need it often, but I really should get it setup). I did a bit of searching, but haven't so far found the reference you're talking about. lspci lists the modem in the T40 as Intel Corporation 82801DB/DBL/DBM AC'97 Modem Controller (rev 01). Is the modem in the T41 the same?

What a machine! Quicker than my desktop with less specs! Only problem is that I got the "bad" Intel card wifi b standard card (2100).

I've been wanting to replace it with an Atheros chip card, but read somewhere that you need the flash the BIOS for it to be accepted!?

Is that info bollocks or the bee's knees?

Amongst other modifications from the standard T40, mine has a Gigabyte Atheros based card:

Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc AR5212 802.11abg NIC (rev 01).

The machine has the most recent BIOS and EC firmware, and doesn't come up with any errors on boot. BIOS is 3.21 (2006-06-02) and EC is 3.04.

I'm not sure how definitive that is, but it certainly works here witout any problems.

I've yet to set up the wifi card (haven't installed the wireless router yet), but that's quite high on my priority list - it would be nice not to have to haul the machine upstairs and plug it into the docking station every time I want to use it on the network or want to use it to access the internet.

paul.

#17 Post by **carbon_unit** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:44 pm

I use Xandros Linux on my T42 and everything seems to work out of the box except the modem which required me to select a different driver than the default. Wireless works with WPA, bluetooth works, sound, power management, etc.

The catch is that it is not free. If you want everything to work you either have to tweak it into shape or pay someone to do it for you.
Me, I like to tweak my system when I want to, not because I have to. YMMV

toad · #18 Post by **toad** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:45 am

@ toothandnail

Sounds like we have the same modem and a

sudo apt-get install sl-modem-daemon sl-modem-source

will do the trick (same as what carbon_unit did). You can now use kpppd to sort out your modem. Should you still have probs just pm me.

Thanks btw for your BIOS and EC version, I've got BIOS 3.17 and EC 2.04 still. Problem appears to be that one needs to have windows up and running to do any of these updates. I'll try and get hold of an Intel card first, if it does not get recognised then I'll just have to dig out my old Win 98 from somewhere.

@ carbon_unit

I've heard about Xandros. Glad to hear that everything works smoothly - basically the same as Kubuntu (for the modem, however, I had to work out which driver was the right one, but from then on it was a breeze, too).

As for tweaking operating systems. Granted, hardware and drivers have been designed with windows in mind, so getting things to work under linux can be cumbersome. Laptops especially are notorious. However, Ubuntu was a real leap forward in usability for the average user and once you have your system set up it is extremely low maintenance (no defrag, no spyware, no trojans, no viruses, no restarts after updates).

toothandnail · #19 Post by **toothandnail** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:49 pm

toad wrote:@ toothandnail

Sounds like we have the same modem and a
sudo apt-get install sl-modem-daemon sl-modem-source
will do the trick (same as what carbon_unit did). You can now use kpppd to sort out your modem. Should you still have probs just pm me.

I'm running Zenwalk, which is Slackware based. Don't use KDE either. Still, shouldn't be a problem - I can easily compile the sl-modem source myself...

Thanks btw for your BIOS and EC version, I've got BIOS 3.17 and EC 2.04 still. Problem appears to be that one needs to have windows up and running to do any of these updates. I'll try and get hold of an Intel card first, if it does not get recognised then I'll just have to dig out my old Win 98 from somewhere.

If you've got a USB floppy, you should be able to update using that. The T4x series can be set to boot from USB floppy, and the updates are usually available as floppy images as well as the Windows updater. That's how I updated my old T23...

paul.

syedj · #20 Post by **syedj** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:23 pm

on a T41 and a T60, I have been running Kubuntu (Ubuntu w/o Gnome but with KDE) and everything works out of the box (haven't tried modem and bluetooth). Wireless, USB 2.0, on screen displays for volume, CD/DVD writing, APM (suspend and resume) all work without any tweaks.

I have also tried Fedora Core 6 on the T41 but can't recall any problems that I faced so I would imagine whatever I was trying to use worked.

I hope this helps.

toad · #21 Post by **toad** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:55 am

@ syjed

sudo apt-get install sl-modem-daemon sl-modem-source

will get the modem running on your T41.

@ toothandnail
no usb floppy I'm afraid, but will it boot from a usb stick? I know there is an option in the bios menu - any idea whether that would work?

But in any case, I might not have to do it at all 'cos I just bought a 2200 Intel Wifi card which - supposedly - does not cause an 1802. I'll be back whinging or celebrating as the case may be...

#22 Post by **Johan** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:52 am

Please beware (if you're not already!) that there's actually a dedicated forum for "Linux Questions" here at forum.thinkpads; see http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=9

Regards,

Johan

syedj · #23 Post by **syedj** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:57 am

toad,

Thanks for the tip. I actually haven't had a need for using the modem yet so never really looked into getting it to work.

#24 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:19 pm

Johan wrote:Please beware (if you're not already!) that there's actually a dedicated forum for "Linux Questions" here at forum.thinkpads; see http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=9

Regards,

Johan

Hey, you're right. This thread is now moving there.

toothandnail · #25 Post by **toothandnail** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:46 pm

toad wrote:@ syjed
@ toothandnail
no usb floppy I'm afraid, but will it boot from a usb stick? I know there is an option in the bios menu - any idea whether that would work?

Good question. I've got a usb stick, but its not bootable. I'm planning on getting another to use with SystemRescueCD, so I guess I'll have to find out...

But in any case, I might not have to do it at all 'cos I just bought a 2200 Intel Wifi card which - supposedly - does not cause an 1802. I'll be back whinging or celebrating as the case may be...

Good luck...

paul.

toad · #26 Post by **toad** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:42 am

thanks carbon_unit and Johan,

I didn't realise

syedj · #27 Post by **syedj** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:09 pm

You can also alternatively use a custom made bootable CDR or even CRW with a WinXP SP2 boot image as well as the executable drivers/updates that you may wanna include in that CD.

Check out: http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

#28 Post by **carbon_unit** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:32 pm

My intel 2200BG works out of the box too without any tweaking, WPA works too.

As far as WinPE goes, I use http://www.ubcd4win.com/ A very handy cd to have around if you have to work on infected windows boxen.

toad · #29 Post by **toad** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:37 am

What BIOS do you have, carbon_unit?

Both the links you provided require windows to be installed in the first place (they both have exe files), which sort of puts a stop to the proceedings.

I have read, though, that winxp is not nearly as fussy as its earlier cousins as to where it wants to be on the hard drive - only proviso being that it goes onto a primary partition.

So if I have to, I'd just create a primary partition at the end of my disk, plonk xp on there, do the bios and whatever else and chuck it again.

Bootable usb stick is still a nice idea though - is there no iso which will give you a dos environment?

which t4x for linux?

which t4x for linux?

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