Has anyone purchased on ebay from ibmfactoryoutlet?

[dclee012]

Just wondering. Feedback anyone?

[noetus]

**BUMP** I'd like to know too - thinkpadworld has had lots of discussion on the forums here, but nothing for ibmfactoryoutlet, which has comparable prices, feedback, and volumes of sales (and is also located in NYC). I did call them once and they told me that claims on Mack warranties get serviced by IBM - so that you just send to the IBM service center, and Mack picks up the bill. But from what I've read about Mack warranties in this forums, that's not true. What gives?

Could ibmfactoryoutlet and thinkpadworld actually be the same operation?

[ajkula66]

With prices that these guys have, I doubt that anyone from this forum would purchase anything there, unless one is in dire need of getting a proof of insanity to present in court...

[BillMorrow]

mack warranties suck..
any business selling from NYC or brooklyn must be regarded with a higher level of suspicion..
especially when they lie to you on the telephone..

lenovo has improved their online sales from when it was ibm..

for me, i would pay a little more and get the assurance of doing business with a legit vendor..

[losmeme]

Bill;

I must take exception to your comment about sellers from New York or Brooklyn (Hey, and what about the Bronx, Staten Island or Queens??)

No matter WHERE the transaction is taking place CAVEAT EMPTOR rules the day.

I have purchased from more than a few New York eBayers with great success. The majority are highly educated about what they are flogging, not so in the general eBay population, in my experience. I have a feedback rating of over 300, highly positive comments. I live in Queens.

ANYBODY considering purchasing from thinkpadworld or ibmfactoryoutlet needs to have their head examined. There is more than enough info in these ads to scare off even the least critical of customers. These guys make their money from impulse purchases.

A sucker is born every minute (every 30 seconds in New York!), and these guys are sucker magnets!

[noetus]

I just want to add my voice here as someone who HAS purchased from thinkpadworld - unlike many people commenting on them in these forums. And I don't think I need my head examined, nor do I think these guys are crooks. I have bought from them 3 times, and each time the stuff was shipped direct from IBM. Each time, there was a problem (case cracked in T42/wrong model, refurbed Dock II not recognizing PCI card, T42P shipped with 6 cell not the 9 cell battery as listed) and as far as I can tell, it wasn't their fault - it was a problem originating from IBM/Lenovo. I have also bought directly used stuff from IBM as well, and their quality control is NOT good. Anyway, in each case thinkpadworld fixed the problem promptly - giving me full refunds in 2 of the 3 cases (I ended up getting the products elsewhere in those cases) and getting IBM to ship me a replacement 9 cell battery (which IBM screwed up the first time by the way, sending me a T60 battery) in the last case. Also when there was another problem - the T42p was not shipping within the 3 business days they promised because (they said) - IBM shipped it to them instead of direct to me, they upgraded the shipping to overnight to try and make up for the lost time.

I will say this, however. I cannot unreservedly RECOMMEND thinkpadworld (but see below).

(1) First off, as many others have commented, their listings are misleading, leading unwary buyers to think they are getting brand new unused items, or items with a 3 year IBM warranty, when in fact they are getting refurbed/remanufactured items and a Mack warranty. However, a careful reading of their listings will reveal all this - there is nothing factually incorrect and the listings usually give you a lot of detail. (Manufacturers are just as guilty of this sort of thing, aren't they?)

(2) There is a high chance, in my experience, that you will not get the item as described in the listing. HOWEVER, they fixed the problems in every case, and usually (sometimes very) promptly. Nevertheless, the Tebele brothers (Charles seems to be the main guy) will sometimes try to get out of it or fob you off at first. If you are gentle and persistent (don't go off your head) the problems will ALL be fixed. You may have to be insistent, and it may take a little bit of time, but they will fix the problem (just don't start getting rude with them).

By the way, sometimes the way thinkpadworld does business - selling thinkpads that are actually supplied direct from IBM - can work to your advantage. This was the case with my T42p, which, by the way, is brand new except for a couple of hardly noticeable scuff marks on the lid (and is thus in better condition than it was listed). First off, it was IBM who sent me the battery replacement so I got next day DHL shipping on that, direct from them. (This is evidence of their having a good working relationship with IBM, too.) Second off, it was listed as having a 6 month IBM warranty, but actually came with nearly a year of EZServ warranty (a complete bonus), which I can pay to upgrade to 2 or even 3 years - so the machine for me is effectively new. And I still have that Mack warranty when the IBM warranty finally runs out. So I am very happy with this purchase - the machine turned out better than expected, and I finally got the right battery from IBM (and got to keep the 6 cell one too).

The bottom line is that ALL sales with eBay are risky, especially with ANY sellers who are selling used/refurbed equipment and making money out of it (I think the margins are inherently small). Your best bet on eBay is a private sale from someone you have good reason to trust. However, these are comparatively rare, and sometimes it just isn't possible to get what you want that way. For example, if you want a Thinkpad with a UXGA (1600x1200) display in a new (or near new) condition, as I did, thinkpadworld and ibmfactoryoutlet are just about the only sellers selling these regularly and in significant enough numbers to give you a decent choice among models. Now that I have a working relationship with thinkpadworld I would go back and buy from them again if I need something and they are selling it. I know that something may well go wrong, but I am also confident that it will get fixed if it does, and that's a lot more than I can say for any other commercial eBayers. Plus, they list a telephone number AND they answer it right away (and you can usually get through to speak to one of the Tebele brothers too), AND they answer their emails very promptly (within an hour or two, or the next day at latest), in my experience. How many online sellers (big names like Amazon, Best Buy, etc) is that true of?

So I would RESERVEDLY recommend thinkpadworld - if you are confident you know what you are doing. (The fact that I had detailed technical knowledge on the products I was buying from them helped me, I think.) Better the devil you know.

One final warning if you are thinking of buying from them. Many of their listings show a memory upgrade (usually from 1GB to 2GB) and say the box is IBM sealed. In that case, you will notice when the package arrives that the seal is broken. If you ask, they will say they had to break the seal to install the memory. On one hand this is reasonable enough, but on the other hand it could be a way of selling used machines as IBM refurbed and sealed when they are not, or perhaps as a way of reselling machines that were returned to them as if they came direct from IBM. SO if you are planning on buying one of these machines with the memory upgrade, INSIST (when sending your payment and in a separate email) that YOU will install the memory and that they are NOT to break the seal - they should ship the memory separately. If the machine still arrives in a box with its seal broken, insist on a replacement and cite your earlier emails.

[pianowizard]

I bought an R50p from Thinkpadworld last month. It was a mostly satisfactory transaction, though with one problem, as you will find out below.

1) The price was reasonable, communication was good, and shipment was fast.

2) The laptop's condition was decent but it was obviously used, with minor scratches on the lid and and the bottom, and the Win XP Pro COA sticker was quite worn out. These blemishes didn't surprise me because I had known in advance that these are the same units that IBM sells on their "Certified Used Equipment" site. The screen was immaculate though, and the battery brand new.

3) The eBay auction stated that the RAM had been upgraded from the original 512MB to 1GB, which I assumed meant adding another 512MB stick, but it turned out that they replaced the original 512MB module with a 1GB one! I was of course very happy about that.

4) Now the problem. The laptop was advertised to have 6 months of IBM warranty and 3 years of Mack warranty. But the laptop didn't come with any paperwork for the Mack warranty, and looking up the machine's serial number revealed that its IBM warranty had expired on 9 March 2007. I asked Thinkpadworld about that, and they quickly registered the machine for the Mack warranty. But they simply told me to call IBM to find out why the laptop wasn't covered by IBM's warranty, which I have yet to do.

[scosgt1]

I have long suspected they are one and the same outfit - everything the list and sell looks about the same.

I think their "deals" really don't cut it. The Mack Warranty is BS, do a google search on that. In my opinion, not worth the paper it is printed on.

Anyone who spends $1300 or more for a laptop with 90 days warranty and a "mack" warranty is just plain nuts. Just look at the posts here, even mine. All kinds of stuff with 2 years plus warranty, both new and used.

At one time buying refurbished was a great way to go. Then IBM dropped the warranty to 90 days from the original balance of 3 years, and it all went downhill.

In addition, guys here tend to be concerned with things like stuck pixels. While there is no guarantee on a new sealed unit, many of the units these guys sell are "take backs" where the customer was not satisfied. So in conclusion, you are paying more and getting less.

[Nickolai]

So the general wisdom seems to be to be wary of either thinkpadworld or ibmfactoryoutlet.

ANYBODY considering purchasing from thinkpadworld or ibmfactoryoutlet needs to have their head examined. There is more than enough info in these ads to scare off even the least critical of customers. These guys make their money from impulse purchases.

Maybe I don't have a clue, but I seriously considered buying from them after some examination of eBay offerings.
Where would you recommend to buy instead, if one wants to buy on older model of laptop?
Do you suggest said sellers are worse than average, less known eBay seller or what?
Do you think their prices are too high?

[Nickolai]

Anyone who spends $1300 or more for a laptop with 90 days warranty and a "mack" warranty is just plain nuts. Just look at the posts here, even mine. All kinds of stuff with 2 years plus warranty, both new and used.

Thanks for pointing this out. Apart from the fact that I don't trust any unknown service company, anything different from international warranty is impractical for an foreign buyer like me.

So in conclusion, you are paying more and getting less.

Less than.. what? Pardon me, I'm new in this and may not get the context.

[Johan]

<snip> ...anything different from international warranty is impractical for an foreign buyer like me... <snip>

Nickolai,

In relation to the actual coverage of IBM's "International Warranty Service" you may possibly benefit from browsing the thread IBM/Denmark deny to honor warranty confirmed by IBM-Support - if you consider buying a ThinkPad in e.g. the USA and exporting it out of there and into e.g. Russia. My suggestion (based on my experience): Check with your domestic IBM-division the guaranteed warranty coverage before buying abroad - and be sure to speak to an authorized person, and be sure to obtain warranty-coverage confirmation in writing. After that, proceed with the purchase.

Best regards,

Johan

[Truthfinder]

Johan:

I read the very long history and final repair of your T42P.

Glad you finally got your T42P back in good order.

Additionally, what a great group of folks in this community.....


Truthfinder

[txporter]

I have looked at a lot of posts on this and other forums here about Thinkpadworld, and just wantred to report on my experience:

In a word GREAT!!

I bought a T41p back in 11/06 with 3 or 6 month IBM warranty and the mack 3 year Warranty.

Two weeks ago my t41p developed the GPU ball solder joint fracture problem (I'm pretty sure), so after talking to Lenovo service and hearing a high price to repair, and some mis-leading info about purchasing a product service agreement after they knew my machine was hurt, I called Thinkpadworld to enquire after the Mack warrranty.

They said it was covered, and to box it up and send it off. I'm in Albany NY, so I could have practically dropped it off. I kept my HD and the battery I bought, put a junker drive in with the original 9 cell battery and boxed it up.

I fedex'ed it off Tuesday the 25th, they had it by Wednesday or Thursday, fixed it and had it out UPS on Friday the 28th, and UPS delivered it Monday the 31st, today.

I popped my old HD in and booted up. I had to reset the security chip and turn off the touchpad again, so I'm pretty sure I got a new T41p with the same specs as the old one. I'm VERY happy and can only say that my experiences have been far better than I expected.

Everything is better than I sent it off.

Take it FWIW, but I would not hesitate to buy my next TP from them.

Tom Porter

[scosgt1]

And your very first post is to extol the virtues of a seller who is rather disliked here. And you don't know if you got back the same serial number?

Hmmmm

[ajkula66]

txporter wrote:

so after talking to Lenovo service and hearing a high price to repair, and some mis-leading info about purchasing a product service agreement after they knew my machine was hurt,

Would you mind elaborating on the given statement, please? You are pretty much trashing Lenovo here without giving any verifiable data.

And you were talking to Lenovo...why????????

[scosgt1]

Oh, and they will be happy to sell you a service contract and fix that machine as many times as you want. They were giving you perfectly good information.

Starting to sound like our friend ThinkPad World is back.

[whizkid]

I feel I have to chip in.

A few months ago, I purchased a T42 from ibmfactoryoutlet on eBay. There were some issues, but I believe those were IBM's issues: Sound didn't work, and the Windows COA was missing.

The seller quickly sent a COA. I tried several OSes, Windows as well as Linux, both LiveCDs and installed. No sound.

The seller had me ship the machine back to them, and sent a replacement. It was a T41p, but had a faster CPU, much better GPU and a larger hard drive.

It took a little time, but I got a better machine than was posted on the auction and feel well taken-care of.

For my next purchase, I plan to come here first, but if I want something not available here, I would buy from ibmfactoryoutlet again.

[txporter]

Sure I will be glad to address questions/observations re: lenovo service and my slandering them.

I want to state from the first that the people I spoke with at IBM/Lenovo TS were knowledgeable and appeared to want to help me. I had GREAT service from IBM over a year ago when I scragged my pre-desktop area installing Linux, and they sent me the recovery CD's and a new HD to try out just t make sure the HD in my t41p was not physically damaged. As my story of this service call unfolds you will see why I got a bit worried/irritated.

I looked up TP support in the internet, and found that service and support was handled by lenovo as shown at https://www-304.ibm.com/systems/support/pc/

I called 1-800-426-7378 and got a friendly, helpful person that was able to verify that my t41p was no longer in warranty. I wsa given a case number, then I did the dance where he verified that it was not a software problem. (has prob even without HD in it). I believe I was told that a system board would be about $475, and that there could be a $175 charge for diagnosis if I wanted them to verify that was the problem (as opposed to me sending it in and saying "replace the sstem board")

I said that the price seemed a bit high, and the TS rep said that I should look into a product service agreement and gave me the 1-866-968-4465 number. I said that I thought it was a bit odd to be able to buy a product service agreement when I already had a case number assigned for what was now on record as a hardware problem (at least from my description of it.) At this exact point in time my t41p would start to boot up then video would blank and freeze, as opposed to starting with a black LCD as occurred later in the day and stayed that way. So one might say that the machine was not really broken yet and I did not _really_ know what was wrong.

I called the 1-866-968-4465 number and talked to anothe friendly helpful person who offered to sell me a product service agreement. (I had already looked these up on the Lenovo site and was looking at either the 41C9279 $199 1 yr onsite 9x5 or the 41C9280 $321 2 yr P+L depo repair contract.) I also noticed at the time that there was a disclosure on the page that said that you could not get service the day you bought a service contract, but had to wait for the account to be set up, around wo weeks; which I found interesting because it suggested to me that people _did_ purchase service contracts after their machines bit the dust, then sent them in for service ASAP.

I specifically asked him if this would cover a machine that had hardware problems, and he gave the answer I expected, that they could not sell me a product service contract for an item known to be broken.

The next day I did some research on this and other TP forums and found that the GPU fracture problem was well known and that in some Nordic countries system boards were being replaced even after the 3 year warranty had expired.

I called TS back and got the TS rep to pull up my case number and then went through explaining the info about some system boards being replaced after warranty ran out. The TS rep diligently looked through his material but regretfully told that no such replaement offer was available in the US.

The TS rep then went on to say that he still thought he could help me out and asked me to stay on the line. When he came back on the call he told me that he had a rep from the product service sales org on the line and they were all set to sell me a service agreement and that I should send my t41p in for service in about 2-3 weeks because it took that long to get the account set up. He hung up and left me on the line with the rep from the service contract sales area.

The rep was nice enough to explain that the service contracts I had looked up were even cheaper than listed on the site and got ready to sign me up. I still found the idea that I could get a service contract for a laptop that was on record with hardware problems a bit unusual, so I asked the sales rep the question I had asked before: Are you sure I can get my laptop repaired if I buy this contract? He asked "What do you mean?" I then backed off and asked him what the TS person had told him about my situation. The service contract sales rep said that the TS rep said that I had questions about my laptop and was interested getting a service contract because I was not sure if it was working right or not.

I said thank you very much and that I would call back when I was ready to buy a contract.

Now I think there are two ways to interpret this observed behavior, which occurred not once but twice, at least as far as TS went.

1. The two TS reps I spoke with were extremely customer service oriented, and wanted to help me out even by bending what appeared to be standing rules about service contracts on already troubled hardware, and thought that I would not run into any trouble trying to get my laptop serviced after I had a case number on file with my specific observations that I hada hardware probme.

2. The two TS reps were engaged in an effort to up-sell me a service contract when they realized that my machine was out of warranty and that I thought the depot repair prices were more than it was worth to me to get the laptop repaired. They may have a page in their three-ring binder that says to try to sell-through to the service contract folks in these cases, and its not their problem to make sure I would really be covered, and that is determined by the service contract terms.

I may be a suspicious old cuss, but I really did not want to get stuck buying a $200 contract and then being told that my repair was not covered because it was pre-existing damage.

I have no way to know if this would have happened or not. The more I thought about it, the more I thought that my dismal interpretation might be right. I called TS back the third day and tried to make my way through the phone trees to get a higher level person to ask about this and vent a bit to. I eventually ended up talking to Darren Hofert, SST Senior East Coast Sales Rep, IBM Global Services, who listened intently and said that he did not know of any policy to sell-through service contracts, and he thought that the TS reps really were trying to help me out. He then went on to say that the service agreement sales systems were not well linked to the TS systems and that in all likelihood I could have bought the service agreement, cooled my heels for 2-4 weeks and sent in the laptop and gotten it repaired with no trouble.

I thanked him for his time, and left it at that.

Having contacted a local computer store that eventually quoted me $400 to replace the system board, I decided to hope against hope and contact Thinkpadworld to see if my Mack warranty was in force, which I frankly did not expect to bear any useful results.

Please see my reply to replies about me being a shill for the rest of my story re TPW.

Tom Porter.

[txporter]

And your very first post is to extol the virtues of a seller who is rather disliked here. And you don't know if you got back the same serial number?

Hmmmm

OK, here are the gory details about SN's:

My notes on my interactions with IBM, et. al were at home when i wrote my post from an internet cafe:

Looking at them now, my notes say that my SN was 99-B92N5 followed by 04/04 which I assume is the month year manufactured.

Turning my T41p over now I see a sticker with a slight wrinkle in it with the same SN. The Windows XP sticker I peeled off the palm rest is on the bottom of the unit where I had placed it, and the wired ethernet and wifi MAC addresses still match up to those my old t41p had as verified by looking at DHCPD logs on my home server, so I guess I can say the technical evidence points to the same chassis and same replaceable parts like the mini-PCI cards.

I just had a hard time believing that this was the same machine because:

a. It was so nice and shiny clean with all my fingerprints and smears on the screen gone.

b. There were no creaks from the palmrest.

c. The key action seemed better than it had been.

d. I saw a small triangular white arrowhead in the middle of the closed lid back by the hinges that I could not recall seeing before.

Re: shill status, etc.

It don't mean a thing to me if you all believe me or not. After reading about the worthlessness of the Mack warranty on many sites, not only this one, I really did not expect to get any service under that warranty, nor did I know if TPW did Mack warranty work or not.

After emailing TPW to ask if my machine was covered, I was told that some of the questions I had required a technician to answer before they would commit to asking me to send it to them. After a three day wait for the tech to get back into town, I called and confirmed that I had a hardware problem, and was told that they would fix it, and was told to box it up and send it in with a check for $40 S&H.

Thats what I did (I KNOW that $40 is excessive for S&H from NYC to Albany, as I only paid $10 for insured FedEx ground, but I cannot complain about my over all price!)

Fedex'ed to TPW last Tuesday , had it back yesterday, using it today.

The only reason I'm posting here at all is that I know that I would be posting to complain if I had had a bad experience with TPW, so its only fair that I post a report of my good experience with them.

Make of it what you will, and if replies to this discount me as a shill or fictitious customer, while not painting people who complain about TPW with the same brush, then that says something about the rigor of how people evaluate information posted here.

If someone can suggest a satisfactory way for me to prove I am who I say I am and I think its worth my while to do it, I would be glad to do so.

TTYL,

Tom Porter

Take it all FWIW.

[ajkula66]

OK, I'm getting the picture now, sort of, at least...

IMHO no one in Lenovo has tried to wrong you, or deceive you in any which way, but tried to help you to the best of their ability.

You went to them knowing that your manufacturer's warranty had expired and haven't opted for any of the solutions that were offered to you at the time. No loss or gain for either you or them.

I don't find the price you've been quoted excessive, especially for the fact that your local shop was only slightly cheaper. They have a high standard that must be adhered to, and it costs. Period. Replacing a blown transmission on a '85 Benz is not going to be much, if at all, cheaper than on '05 Benz, when done by an authorized dealer. Quality work has a high price tag, and always will.

I'm glad that you eventually went the route that you should've taken from day one IMO and had the machine repaired by the party who had warranty obligations towards you in the first place, and that your ThinkPad is better than expected. With an experience like that, your voice should be heard.

I still find ThinkPad World's prices outrageous and severely excessive:

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-ThinkPad-T60p-2 ... ssPageName

This very same unit can be found on this forum for around $1,200 and for way less on eBay. Extend the warranty with Lenovo for another 2 years for less than $300, and you've saved $600 while still being covered by manufacturer's warranty...so simple math would advise me against purchasing from them, and that has been my issue with this particular retailer from day one. But at least one can now say that they stood behind their warranty in your case.

Enjoy the re-birth of your T41p.

[Brad]

I still find ThinkPad World's prices outrageous and severely excessive:

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-ThinkPad-T60p-2 ... ssPageName

This very same unit can be found on this forum for around $1,200 and for way less on eBay.

It is nice to see that the Mack warranty appears to be actually worth something.

I think the above auction is greatly overpriced due to the rarity of the item and the Flexview LCD. I would be surprised if this item sold at the listed price.

Brad

[scosgt1]

T60's and T61's are great machines, worth every penny. Just not that many pennies.

[txporter]

I still find ThinkPad World's prices outrageous and severely excessive:

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-ThinkPad-T60p-2 ... ssPageName

This very same unit can be found on this forum for around $1,200 and for way less on eBay.

It is nice to see that the Mack warranty appears to be actually worth something.

I think the above auction is greatly overpriced due to the rarity of the item and the Flexview LCD. I would be surprised if this item sold at the listed price.

Brad

To move on to a technical question:

I notice from the URL that this comes with 4 GB memory. Forgive my ignorance, but does this mea that this is a 64 bit processor that supports accessing the full 4GB?

I am saving up factoids like this for when my T41p makes the last long dive towards darkness.

Thanks!

Tom P.

[scosgt1]

XP only supports 3 GIG, Vista supports 4 GIG

If you look around the various ThinkPad forums, I think you will find that Vista is not well liked by THinkPad people - in fact, IBM sells an XP "downgrade" if you can believe it.

So the 4 GIG is somewhat overkill at this time.

[ajkula66]

Also, although it will see 4Gb in BIOS, the chipset used in T60 will not be able to address any more than 3Gb. This is a plain Core Duo, not a C2D.