T22 Freezes under OpenGL applications

Message

ia- · #1 Post by **ia-** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:28 am

I have a T22 running Windows 2000 Professional, with the SavageIX8 video card.

When I run OpenGL applications, such as Quake 3, the system freezes within about a minute, and I have to turn off the computer via the power button and reboot. I've upgraded to the latest (released in 2003) SavageIX8 drivers, version 7.90.50 (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 44187.html), but this hasn't solved the problem.

Any suggestions?

jimmy274 · #2 Post by **jimmy274** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:10 pm

Try these...
http://manian.dreamwiz.com/software/view.asp?no=15867
Try not to be too disturbed by a Chinese site

ia- · #3 Post by **ia-** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:59 pm

Those drivers seem to work fine, except my computer still crashes under some OpenGL applications. Is this a problem anyone else has experienced?

Bgradid · #4 Post by **Bgradid** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:14 pm

If i may ask, what resolution are you trying to run quake 3 at? I found the drivers supplied by s3 were a jumble but worked fine as long as i limited myself to 640x480

Oddly enough the hacked-together open source drivers on linux run quake 3 better than the 'official' windows variants

ia- · #5 Post by **ia-** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:18 pm

I was trying at 640x480 and 1024x768. I decided to just upgrade to XP Pro and that has fixed the problem. XP recognized the video card by default and is supplied with drivers that work correctly for all resolutions >= 640x480. For resolutions below 640x480 the video works, but is embedded in a 1024x768 desktop. I suppose a solution would be to lower the desktop size, but the XP drivers do not seem to allow desktop resolutions below 800x600. I have not tried updating the drivers. I may.. but I'm concerned that there's no benefit and it could cause problems.

In a related question, does anyone know if it's possible to upgrade the video card on these laptops? I haven't opened it up so I don't know if it has an AGP slot or not. I suspect the T22 would get full FPS in Quake 3 if the video card were slightly better. With the terrible Savage card it gets 30-65fps at 640x480, despite the cpu being more than adequate.

#6 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:31 pm

Video chipset is firmly soldered down to the motherboard.

jimmy274 · #7 Post by **jimmy274** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:57 pm

I still think you should upgrade the drivers. You would probably get a lot more from a rusty Savage. Mine does the job pretty decent, but it's a different Savage (SuperSavage/IXC with 16megs). Try the ChroMetal , you could easily uninstall them.

ia- · #8 Post by **ia-** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:43 pm

Thanks, I'll try upgrading the drivers. Your system is also better than mine (1.2ghz vs .9ghz, better vid card.)

I previously had Debian on this laptop (I switched because I didn't want to deal with issues in sid during the semester), and the xorg drivers for the SavageIX don't seem better than the XP drivers. The XP drivers are around 10-30fps faster at the same resolution, actually. The xorg SavageIX driver doesn't support dri unless you either compile from source (using mesa drivers, etc), or run Debian unstable's xorg build. With dri enabled it still runs slower in Gnome than in XP. Maybe a lighter window manager would free up ram, but I don't think ram is the bottleneck anyway.

ia- · #9 Post by **ia-** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:27 pm

I tried the CroMetal v4.4 Win2k/XP driver (from http://manian.dreamwiz.com/software/vie ... e=01070199) and Quake 3 crashes out with a console error. It looks like the driver is unable to set a 640x480 resolution. After investigating further, the driver also can't open Quake 1 in OpenGL (using ezquake) at any resolution. Does this driver actually work?

The console message for 640x480 Q3 is:

Initializing OpenGL subsystem
...initializing QGL
...calling LoadLibrary( 'C:\WINDOWS\system32\opengl32.dll' ): succeeded
...setting mode 3: 640 480 W
...registered window class
...created window@360,15 (646x512)
Initializing OpenGL driver
...getting DC: succeeded
...GLW_ChoosePFD( 16, 16, 0 )
...37 PFDs found
...hardware acceleration found
...PIXELFORMAT 2 selected
...creating GL context: failed
...failed hard
...WARNING: could not set the given mode (3)
...setting mode 3: 640 480 FS
...using colorsbits of 16
...calling CDS: ok
...created window@0,0 (640x480)
Initializing OpenGL driver
----- CL_Shutdown -----
RE_Shutdown( 1 )
Shutting down OpenGL subsystem
...wglMakeCurrent( NULL, NULL ): failed
...releasing DC: failed
...destroying window
...resetting display
...shutting down QGL
...unloading OpenGL DLL
-----------------------
Q_strncpyz: NULL src

jimmy274 · #10 Post by **jimmy274** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:20 am

I don't see why you used the older ChroMetal. I've left you a link for a 4.9 version, and you downloaded 4.4 version.

ia- · #11 Post by **ia-** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:51 pm

Thanks for pointing that out. I had installed ChroMetal from your link on Win2k, but this time I had just typed it into google and went to one of the first links. I didn't notice the version numbers were different, I'll try the newer one.

ia- · #12 Post by **ia-** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:27 pm

The 4.9 driver has the same issues, oh well.

jimmy274 · #13 Post by **jimmy274** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:21 pm

So, as I understand your problem - you installed XP, used the WDM drivers that XP has built-in, and then, when I told you about the ChroMetal, you used versions 4.4 and 4.9.
In addition, the WDMs are too slow, the ChroMetal cannot start OpenGL, right. So, you need a fast, reliable driver... Hmm... Why don't you try the IBM official now - it might not freeze in XP?
You could also try to google s3tweak 1.16i, and try to overclock+WDM, or I could send it to you via e-mail or something if you don't find it. It's 180kb, so it's not a problem...

jimmy274 · #14 Post by **jimmy274** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:26 pm

BTW, I'm using the IBM's official drivers, no overclock, and Quake 2 runs excellent in 1024x768 (I didn't measure, but it seems like 40+ fps in any situation), standard OpenGL driver in video settings, and highest quality.

ia- · #15 Post by **ia-** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:40 pm

I just tried IBM's SavageIX driver v7.90.50 (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... IGR-4JRNJB). OpenGL seems to work, and a timedemo in Quake 3 gave me 74fps at 640x480 resolution and moderately good graphics, however Quake 3 then locked up and I had to do a hard-reset. When I tried again, the same thing happened. It seems the driver works, but freezes.

Should I update my bios, or anything? I am at a loss.

The problem I'm having could possibly be same video-related lockup that occurs under linux. From http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_w ... tem_lockup

If you are experiencing lockups related to 3D rendering (using DRI) and you are using an XOrg version more recent than 6.9/7.0, you may need to add one or both of the following lines to the Devices section of your xorg.conf file:

Option "BusType" "PCI"
Option "DmaMode" "None"

I'm not sure how this relates to XP. Even with the default XP drivers this card runs faster than in linux, and if the IBM drivers will work, then the difference is close to a factor of 2.

jimmy274 · #16 Post by **jimmy274** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:35 pm

Boy, boy, boy... This explains a lot! I'm having problems with 2D lockup - sometimes, when Firefox is loading a bigger picture, or turning on Quicktime, the mouse cursor is not moving smooth, but instead it moves a certain portion of the screen smoothly, and locks up every 1-2 seconds. When I close the tab it's back to normal... Oh well...
Try to use the official IBM driver and underclock with S3 Tweak. That should work.

ia- · #17 Post by **ia-** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:58 pm

I am having a curious issue with s3tweak. Maybe it's just inexperience, but.. the first time I opened s3tweak I selected "basic" and my lcd seemed to go crazy (there seemed to be some cycling chromatic distortion), without me doing anything besides clicking to open the basic menu. I didn't set or confirm any options and quickly hit the power button (in fear of destroying the lcd if I didn't.)

When the computer rebooted the lcd worked normally. Now, if I click to open s3tweak, nothing happens. The mouse cursor changes to an hourglass for a moment, changes back, and then it's as if I did nothing. Odd? Did XP somehow ban this program?

Also, installing the inf file eventually gives the error message "cannot load helper for NT/Win2k support."

jimmy274 · #18 Post by **jimmy274** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:41 pm

It seems like your graphics chip hears everything we say on this forum , so it's prepared every time we come up with a solution

.
The [censored] thing is alive... I would seriously consider writing from another computer

.
No seriously, what version of S3 tweak do you use (though "use" is not quite appropriate word for this situation)?

ia- · #19 Post by **ia-** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:54 pm

It's version 1.16i.

Also, the v4.9 ChroMetal drivers seem to be behaving differently now. Whereas before they wouldn't open OpenGL at all, I discovered that if I changed my desktop display settings to 640x480, 16, 60hz, and then opened Quake 3 with the same settings, OpenGL would work. I was then able to use Quake 3 to change resolutions. A timedemo in 640x480 gave ~110fps, which is more than I would have expected. However, the system eventually froze here too. It just took a few minutes.

I also seem to be able to open OpenGL applications with the v4.9 ChroMetal drivers in any resolution now. I don't understand why the situation now is any different than before, with the v4.4 and v4.9 drivers. Maybe it was legacy issue due to the drivers that had been previously installed, or maybe I needed to reboot more than once.

So it seems like now I'm back to square one, except with better OpenGL performance.

jimmy274 · #20 Post by **jimmy274** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:20 pm

What IBM drivers did you install? Did you install all of them - power management driver is very important.
The other thing you should probably do is to update your BIOS and embedded program. Maybe the problem lies here.

ia- · #21 Post by **ia-** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:13 pm

I've now updated the bios and installed all of the XP drivers on the Lenovo T22/T23 page (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-57669). The system seemed to be doing better. It got through 2 timedemos before freezing on the 3rd. This means it lasted about 10 or 12 minutes in Quake 3 before freezing. I then tried reinstalling the v4.9 ChroMetal drivers, but had the same issue. Actually the freeze occured much faster this time.

What are normal running temperatures, and is there a good utility that will work with a T22? I am currently using Speedfan (http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php). Speedfan reports 62 C right now, but doesn't say where it's measuring this temp. Several hours ago the temperature was 30 C. Speedfan also seems unable to read fan and voltage data. The fan has been working since opening Speedfan. Another program reports the ACPI temp is 60 C.

jimmy274 · #22 Post by **jimmy274** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:35 pm

Well, well, lupus in fabula...
Ironically, I wanted to check my temperatures, and started speedfan, when I received that you posted a reply .

For me, it detects 2 temperatures - TEMP1 (cpu): 56C (this is pretty hot, by the way - the fan just started working) and hdd0 SMART: 39C.
Since I've got a processor from hell (fastest tualatin available on an IBM), I think your fan doesn't do the job that well (mine never reached 60, and it's 1.2GHz).
There are a few more possible sources of the problem. I would change the thermal paste (arctic ice would be excellent) and clean the cooler (if I remember correctly, T22 fan unit is quite good for cleaning - you can completely tare it apart and give it a nice wipe, unlike T20's which is a crap fan that cannot be tore apart).
So your next step is to take out the keyboard, unscrew the fan unit, clean the old thermal paste, apply the new one, and clean the fan entirely.
I certainly hope that will do the trick.

ia- · #23 Post by **ia-** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:39 pm

Sounds fun, I'll start trying it. Would this running temperature lead to freezing?

jimmy274 · #24 Post by **jimmy274** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:53 pm

I'm not sure, but it's likely... You upgraded the embedded program and the BIOS, right? And the system is running a little better?
These two are very important for low-level functions. Also the power management driver. The BIOS could of changed something so that the CPU is less utilized, and it's idle temp is lower. If this is the scenario, then Quake will lock up later than before.
Sure sounds like a heat problem. If it was a desktop, I would be sure that's the problem (had them a lot), but this way...
Your laptop will run much cooler (and smoother) if you do this, so it won't be for nothing. If it's not that, we're going to think of something else...

jimmy274 · #25 Post by **jimmy274** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:55 pm

BTW, how's my English? I've never asked someone that actually lives in Britain or USA.

ia- · #26 Post by **ia-** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:12 am

Your English is good, you don't come off as a non-native typist.

There doesn't seem to be much dust in or around the fan. It looks like the CPU is in need of thermal paste, so I'll buy some on Saturday. Here's a photo showing the CPU and (removed) fan. The thermal paste is white, and makes a ring around the CPU. There's none in the center.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8012/img0151ly1.jpg

jimmy274 · #27 Post by **jimmy274** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:23 pm

Tnx for english

I don't know if you're aware of the procedure for applying the new thermal paste, so I'm just going to write it out:
1. First you need to remove the old one completely (from both cpu and cooler) - I use toilet paper or cotton swabs to do this. Sometimes I even apply some ethanol on, when I wanna be thorough (but I dunno if that's good, but it worked fine so far).
2. You need to apply the new paste, but... You apply it to the cpu, not the cooling unit and you need to apply not too much, not too little. What does this mean? Basically, you will probably put enough paste, but watch not to be too much - The cpu core needs a fine, slim layer of paste on all of it's surface (just the core - blue square, not the I/O part with pins), but not too thick, as the paste might slip off the core (which is not too bad, but will reduce the cooling amount).
That's it. Let me know when you get the paste.

ia- · #28 Post by **ia-** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:44 pm

Ok, I was able to get Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste. I have put some on the CPU, and the idle temperature of the laptop now seems to be about 49 or 50 C. This is down from 59-60 C before. The temperature still rises to 70 C under heavy load in OpenGL, but when I remove the load the temperature will decrease back to 50 C within a few minutes.

Here is a picture of the new thermal paste and CPU: http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8260/img0167ol9.jpg

I think that my only outstanding issue is that I have gotten a bluescreen error related to the S3 card or driver after running OpenGL for about 5-15 minutes. This is the first time I've seen this error - before my computer would simply freeze. I think you're probably right in that it's a heat issue. I looked in the BIOS but there didn't seem to be any options to increase the fan speed.

ia- · #29 Post by **ia-** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:28 pm

Is this preventable?

jimmy274 · #30 Post by **jimmy274** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:27 am

Well, there's something wrong with your cpu/motherboard/cooler. The fan speed should not be a problem (it's automatic), but your 70 degrees is a bit too hot, since mine goes to 60 when I play Quake 2, for instance.
The general problem is that S3 chip itself does not have any cooling on it - it's the way that IBM wanted. I would try to make s3tweak work somehow, and try to underclock the graphics core - if that doesn't do the trick, I would borrow (or buy - they are cheap now) a p3 cpu (less or equal speed), and tried it out for a few days - if everything is ok, then your cpu is faulty.

T22 Freezes under OpenGL applications

T22 Freezes under OpenGL applications

Who is online