T61 / 14" WS

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pianowizard · #61 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:40 pm

anthean wrote:I wonder if both HP and Panasonic are also discontinuing 4:3 ?

Panasonic hasn't made any widescreen laptops yet. So, they may stick with 4:3 screens for a while, if not permanently.

3nigma · #62 Post by **3nigma** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:18 pm

snessiram wrote:As exposé resizes windows temporarly and doesn't allow clicking on buttons etc., can you tell me how you do it so you get 2 windows next to eachother "permanently"?

In Windows, when you have a window open, you have three buttons on the top right. One is minimize, one is maximize/restore, and one is eXit. In OS X, you have three buttons on the top left. One is minimize, one is eXit, and one is a "+" button. This "+" button is not "maximize," and will not maximize the window to the full screen. Rather, this button maximizes the window to the "ideal" setting for that particular application window. So, a web browsing window won't be more than 4:3, but a DVD playback application will go full screen.

To reference the other questions of more than 4GB RAM access on machines, I have also read that this is due to the 32 bit operating systems. Now that everything is going 64 bit, this cap not only is broken, but I remember reading that computers can access like over 100GB RAM with it.

jesusfreak, you wrote extensively on some specs. Do you have sources to back that, or are you going from gut thinking on what the next progressive hardware may be? I think you are correct in your guesses/statements.

Why mod a glowing Apple logo into the back? It's a HUGE undertaking, but because I am installing OS X on the laptop. It's already cool and crazy to install OS X on PC hardware, but it would send it over the top to do that hardware mod as well, and truly make it an ultimate hack.

-3nigma

#63 Post by **tomh009** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:18 pm

axiom wrote:
aviography wrote:I believe it's Windows XP that is the limiting factor on greater-than-3GB access.
If there is a limit put on the OS, it has to be a 32bit OS.

I wonder if 32bit Linux can handle more than 4GB system memory on x86-64

No 32-bit OS will handle more than 4 GB of memory.

Beyond that, current Intel mobile chipsets, even for 64-bit CPUs, cannot access the full 4 GB of memory. On a ThinkPad, the maximum you will get is 3 GB.

jjesusfreak01 · #64 Post by **jjesusfreak01** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:18 pm

3nigma wrote:
jesusfreak, you wrote extensively on some specs. Do you have sources to back that, or are you going from gut thinking on what the next progressive hardware may be? I think you are correct in your guesses/statements.

-3nigma

Good question. Its a combination of looking at current baseline specs in the market (as well as Lenovo specs), that I can get the processor speed and hdd size. Ive read on threads that Lenovo isn't going to include more than 256MB graphics memory (which frankly, is enough for me) and I have also read here that they may include DX10 cards, though that is purely rumor. Some of my comments (widescreen and such) are just extrapolating Lenovo's current lineup to assist my guess of what the next generation is going to look like. I have no credible sources but these forums.

#65 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:52 pm

pianowizard wrote:
anthean wrote:I wonder if both HP and Panasonic are also discontinuing 4:3 ?
Panasonic hasn't made any widescreen laptops yet. So, they may stick with 4:3 screens for a while, if not permanently.

Panasonic, too, will be at the mercy of the LCD manufacturers. If Lenovo can't get 4:3 panels for ThinkPads in the future, the situation will be identical for Panasonic. (Note that this may not hold true for the fully-rugged Toughbooks, which use high-end, high-cost LCD panels with 500+ nits of brightness.)

anthean · #66 Post by **anthean** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:18 pm

tomh009 wrote:Panasonic, too, will be at the mercy of the LCD manufacturers. If Lenovo can't get 4:3 panels for ThinkPads in the future, the situation will be identical for Panasonic.

Pardon me for feeling forced into accepting widescreen (even assuming, as many attest, they really are superior.)

Sort of reminds me of those old Soviet Union jokes. ("You don't choose widescreen, widescreen chooses you").

#67 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:01 pm

I'm ambivalent at this point in time ... 1280x800 could be nice (I'm an X series user). But having a choice would be a whole lot nicer!

antonb001 · #68 Post by **antonb001** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:03 am

Hi,

as a long time Thinkpad user (work and then finally personal use) and in desperate need of a new notebook pc (as my 5 year old T40 is both showing its age and making strange noises) I am eagerly awaiting the T61.
I have a couple of items on my list that I feel my next thinkpad should have. All of them are currently available from Sony or Panasonic (not so sure about Panasonic) on very large heavy and very expensive models.

1. Bluray burner and HDMI output
2. The in-the-past-available standard 3 year parts warranty (which I had to use 2x)

Bluray and HDMI are new technologies but with all the hoopla about HD and the feverish race to publish everything in HD, I feel it's something that will be standard soon enough. Here in Japan, Bluray is definitely the leader in the HD vs Bluray battle so it tends to follow that it will be the eventual winner.

aviography · #69 Post by **aviography** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:06 am

BueRay home players are hitting the stores at close to $1K (cdn), which is more than a number of the lower end laptops sold here, I really don't know when laptop version will become available (are there any out yet?), let alone BueRay burners.

Most of the high(er) end ThinkPad models sold in Canada have 3 years parts & labour warranty, with the exception of the "system battery" which only carries 1 year warranty, I have noticed this is not the case in the U.S. where a lot of the ThinkPads only come with 1 year P&L warranty, which does explain the apparent lower initial price.

I also noticed that one can build non-standard configurations in the U.S. which seems to automatically reduce any 3 year P&L units down to 1 year P&L, this ability isn't as flexable in Canada, i.e. while you can add on options, you can't mix and match different processors with different graphics cards with different OS etc as you can in the U.S. system.

I'm expecting my T60 today, I found that it is actually cheaper buying it in Canada then the U.S. after all the conversion and shipping and courier charge etc.

iatacs19 · #70 Post by **iatacs19** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:38 am

HDMI out is a good idea, better than DVI in terms of packaging, but I think if they went with a digital display output, it would most likely be DVI so they can minimize the need to carry adapters.

antonb001 · #71 Post by **antonb001** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:02 am

aviography wrote:BueRay home players are hitting the stores at close to $1K (cdn), which is more than a number of the lower end laptops sold here, I really don't know when laptop version will become available (are there any out yet?), let alone BueRay burners.

There are plenty of internal and external Bluray burners available here for under $500 a piece (these are for computers and not by MUCH under 500 bucks) Sony already has a bunch of AR series notebooks that have bluray burners but you can't touch them for under $3k and they are heavy thick monsters, although aestethically very pleasing.

As far as DVI vs HDMI: it would perhaps alleviate the necessity to buy a separate BR player for an HDTV. It looks we buy a lot of duplicate technology "just because we are supposed to." For example, do you really need a CD player AND a DVD player? I've been using my DVD player also as CD player connected to a receiver for years... no problem.

Slartibartfas · #72 Post by **Slartibartfas** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:33 am

A DVI-output is something wich HAS to be there from my point of view. Not everyone wants to buy a Docking station and the lack of quality from the VGA-port is just annoying. Plus all new beamers and so on feature DVI, so in long-term use you need to have DVI onboard. And when I buy a thinkpad, I want to use it the next years...

greets
Slarti

shahbazi · #73 Post by **shahbazi** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:05 pm

i've been waiting for the 14" w/s t60 since december when the rumors were that it was coming out at the beginning of 2007...

id love to hand my 2 month old t60p down to my brother but i need this to happen....!

lenovo really is gathering a reputation for becoming tardy!

fbrdphreak · #74 Post by **fbrdphreak** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:28 am

How are they tardy?

ThinkFanatic · #75 Post by **ThinkFanatic** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:04 am

I have seen a whole bunch of posts where people are upset about no more 4:3 screens.

I have seen information on T61, and they WILL have 4:3 screens in 14" There won't be a 4:3 15", but there will be 14" 4:3 screens. My guess is that the reason they aren't doing 15" 4:3 screens is due to demand overall, and the fact that the 1600x1200 panels have become impossible to get.

So, for the "old school" ThinkPad folks, there will be BOTH. It seems we CAN just all get along. For now anyway!

Dead1nside · #76 Post by **Dead1nside** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:14 am

As long as it is a 1400x1050 14 inch that's alright

anthean · #77 Post by **anthean** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:59 am

ThinkFanatic wrote:I have seen information on T61, and they WILL have 4:3 screens in 14" . . . . So, for the "old school" ThinkPad folks, there will be BOTH. It seems we CAN just all get along. For now anyway!

Cool. Thank you.

3nigma · #78 Post by **3nigma** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:22 am

shahbazi wrote:i've been waiting for the 14" w/s t60 since december when the rumors were that it was coming out at the beginning of 2007...

Yeah, I had a ThinkPad on order last October, but then I cancelled it to wait for the 14" w/s. I didn't realize my wait would be 6+ months, LOL.

ThinkFanatic wrote:I have seen information on T61, and they WILL have 4:3 screens in 14"

Where did you see information on the T61? Would you mind passing on as much information as possible? I am waiting for the specs to purchase one, but if I knew some details in advance, I may be able to stop waiting and order a non-widescreen one now, depending on the specs.

Where did you see information? Could you pass some along? Notably, the graphics card on the "T61p" series and the processors (if they're updated to Santa Rosa/Penryn).

Thanks very much!
-3nigma

csioucs · #79 Post by **csioucs** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:02 am

I hereby certificate that forever, I will adhere to the PERFECT laptop for my needs. 4:3, 14", T-series, SXGA+(1400x1050) at least.

Let us all make a petition to lenovo not to discontinue....if we might be quite a number...perhaps we could contribute to an opinion.

What do you say?

Dead1nside · #80 Post by **Dead1nside** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:48 am

Here, here csioucs.

pianowizard · #81 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:17 am

csioucs wrote:I will adhere to the PERFECT laptop for my needs. 4:3, 14", T-series, SXGA+(1400x1050) at least.

When you guys petition, perhaps you can also mention 14.1" UXGA (1600x1200). Dell used to make such a screen. To me, a 14.1" WSXGA+ screen would be perfect, but a 14.1" UXGA would be very nearly as good.

vkyr · #82 Post by **vkyr** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:34 pm

Well, I highly doubt that an UXGA resolution would make much sense on a 14" panel. I use here an 15" IDTech IPS UXGA panel on a notebook and even it's a very nice panel, it's exhausting for the eyes to work many hours under this resolution.

So from a practical and real usage point of view, an UXGA (1600x1200) resolution for 14" TFT panel should be far away from being ergonomically.

pianowizard · #83 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:48 pm

vkyr wrote:So from a practical and real usage point of view, an UXGA (1600x1200) resolution for 14" TFT panel should be far away from being ergonomically.

I agree that many people would find things too small on a 14.1" UXGA screen, but I personally won't because it's still only 141.8 Dots Per Inch. That's actually lower than the SXGA+ X60 tablet's 144.6 DPI, and the 15.4" WUXGA Dell Inspiron 6000 that's my main computer at work is 147 DPI and I am perfectly comfortable with it. It took about two months to get used to, and initially I had to use it really close to my eyes, like 1 foot away. Now, I put it between 1.5 and 2 feet away from my eyes.

I would love to own a 14.1" UXGA T-series.

vkyr · #84 Post by **vkyr** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:31 pm

BTW, available 14.1" UXGA 1600x1200 pixel TFT panels on the market are:

- Samsung LTN141U1
- Hitachi TX36D58VC1CAA
- Sharp LQ141U1LH02

Dell part numbers for 14" UXGA panels are 5D366 and 6D438, which should have been used for the Dell notebooks:

- Dell Inspiron 4100/4150
- Dell Latitude C610

pianowizard · #85 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:55 pm

vkyr wrote:Dell part numbers for 14" UXGA panels are 5D366 and 6D438, which should have been used for the Dell notebooks:

- Dell Inspiron 4100/4150
- Dell Latitude C610

Thanks for the info. It turns out that one of my co-workers has a C610 with UXGA. The display is extremely dim, though I don't know if it's always been so dim. Whether it's dim or not, I wouldn't want to own one because the laptop is quite ugly. Dell didn't begin making non-ugly laptops until 2003 or so.

vkyr · #86 Post by **vkyr** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:37 pm

Well, the only halfway stylish and better looking Dell notebook I personally know of is the Dell X1 subnotebook, which is based on Samsungs Q30 model and thus can be seen more as a Samsung design. - Almost all other Dell notebooks I know (the Latitude and XPS line) are always somehow bigger, heavier and in contrast to Thinkpads from a quality point of view not this sturdy build. However, many people seem to like Dell notebooks usually more for price and performance reasons and since Dell offers also a quite good business and end user support.

Related to dim TFT panels, most business notebooks, no matter if from Lenovo/IBM, HP Compaq, FUS or Dell etc. have not very luminant displays. Also most matte none-glare TFTs are often dimmer since they have sand blasted surfaces and dimmed backlights in favor of longer battery runtimes.

Sad to say, but there are also only just very few Thinkpad models with better or more luminant LCD panels. In contrast to let's say the majority of Sony X-black design LCD panels (with two, one or even LED based backlights) or some other FUS and Toshiba consumer oriented notebooks, Thinkpads are always dim too.

#87 Post by **gator** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:46 pm

Dell inspiron 700m was also designed by Samsung, and it is a great 12" that I have seen from Dell. I am not a huge fan of Dell, but of late they have been making some nice machines. The e1405 inspiron (14" widescreen) is a nice machine and has a very good keyboard, compared to the ugly 600m flexboard.

pianowizard · #88 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:46 pm

vkyr wrote:Related to dim TFT panels, most business notebooks, no matter if from Lenovo/IBM, HP Compaq, FUS or Dell etc. have not very luminant displays.

Right, but I have owned about 40 laptops (>20 Thinkpads, 4 Dell Inspirons, 3 Toshibas, etc.) and this coworker's C610 display is much dimmer than all of them.

pianowizard · #89 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:59 pm

gator wrote:Dell inspiron 700m was also designed by Samsung

Are you sure about that???? I owned one and it's one of my favorite laptops of all time. When it was released (mid 2004), it was one of the lightest (4.1 lbs) widescreen laptops with an internal optical drive. The 700m looks a lot like my current Inspiron 6000 albeit much smaller, so if the 700m really was designed by Samsung, then the 6000 would probably also be a Samsung design! That's why I am skeptical.

EDIT: Here are my all-time favorites in random order:

Dell Inspiron 6000 with WUXGA
Dell Inspiron 700m
Lenovo Thinkpad T60
IBM Thinkpad 240X
IBM Thinkpad X22
Toshiba Portege R100

#90 Post by **gator** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:48 pm

I am not 100% sure, but the 700m was atleast based on a samsung design for sure. I can't find the link where I read it, but I did read it somewhere (am not confusing with X1, which is also nice). It is one of the nicest dell I have seen, something I did not hate at first site and after using.

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