T61 / 14" WS

Message

newskin · #91 Post by **newskin** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:04 pm

I've recently pulled the trigger on a t60p from Lenovo then I heard that the t61 are coming out soon. Now I don't know if I should cancel the order. I got a decent deal with the AMEX 15% along with whatever Lenovo was offering. That's why I am hesistant to cancel. Anyone's suggestions or knowledge of how much of an improvement the t61 or the santa rosa will be over the current models and whether or not it is worth waiting for would be much appreciated. Oh yea and I guess the price is a major concern. Are the new models going to be more expensive than the current ones?

aviography · #92 Post by **aviography** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:12 pm

If we knew all that, we'd probably be buying winning lottery tickets!

I bought my T60 WS last week, and have been happily using it, I do have an older T23, but this T60 is just so much faster.

To be realistic, the T60 I bought is such a good deal compared to the 2 previous ThinkPads, that I wouldn't feel bad at all if I end up buying a T61 just a couple of years down the road.

If you can and want to wait, then cancel the exisitng order, the electronics will always, always get better and cheaper the longer you wait, but if you need it now, then just keep the order.

pianowizard · #93 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:15 pm

newskin, welcome to the forum. Whether or not you should cancel the order depends on what specs you're looking for. Besides Santa Rosa, T61 will have many other new features, as summarized in this article. For example, if you need Flexview, you should stick with what you ordered because it won't be an option for the T61. On the other hand, if you prefer a 14.1" widescreen, you should get the T61 instead.

The prices will probably be higher than the current T60/T60p's, but only for a short while.

With Santa Rosa, the front-side bus frequency will increase from 667MHz to 800MHz, so that alone will be a 20% increase.

yus9 · #94 Post by **yus9** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:37 pm

Just found this info. (my first post on thinkpads.com, BTW)

From slashgear.com... Tuesday, Apr 3rd 2007
Intel Santa Rosa platform to ship in May?

According to DRAMeXchange, Intel’s next generation mobile platform called Santa Rosa will ship in first half of May. The new platform will uses 965 Express series chipset (Crestline), and equipped with 802.11 a/b/g/n (Intel Wi-Fi Link 4965AGN Kedron wireless module).

Santa Rosa optional features include Intel Turbo Memory (Robson), WWAN and WiMAX (Echo Peak) modules. If everything follows the timetable, ODMs will be focusing the shipments of full system and barebone notebooks by the end April.

Santa Rosa platform to hit shelves in 1H May, says DRAMeXchange.

At http://www.slashgear.com/intel-santa-ro ... 034617.php

sparta.rising · #95 Post by **sparta.rising** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:20 pm

I want a 13" widescreen T61 (macbook size). Same width as the 14" standard but shorter. I'd lose real estate but keep portability. My 2 cents.

pianowizard · #96 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:34 pm

sparta.rising wrote:I want a 13" widescreen T61 (macbook size)....I'd lose real estate but keep portability. My 2 cents.

I agree that's a sweet spot for widescreen laptops, and that's why I was slightly tempted to buy the MacBook when it came out, but decided not to due to its low resolution (1280x800) and heavy weight (5.2 lbs). If there was a 13" widescreen T61 that's as light as an X-series and has a resolution of 1440x900, I would seriously consider getting one.

boyAfraid · #97 Post by **boyAfraid** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:49 am

just in case you haven't seen it, matt kohut of lenovo explains the reasons behind dropping ips/flexview. in the comments, he hints at other technologies being in the pipeline, provided the economics allow for their eventual implementation.

-bA

sokos · #98 Post by **sokos** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:17 pm

Really good article by Matt, thanks for the link boyAfraid.

I have been an owner of a T21, T40 and T41.
This week I was about to order the T60ws, but i decided to wait since i discovered this awesome forum for Thinkpad freaks such as my self.

My "i-want-it" list for the T61 is:

- A top quality and bright, gloss 14.1ws
- 2.3 kgs maximum with 6 cell battery that lasts 3hrs (depends on how good the 965 will be)
- At least a X1600 256MB VGA (a DX10 would be great, but it's too soon i m afraid)
- one piece 1GB, 800Mhz RAM chip
- Hi-Res Webcam, CCD for dark enviroment, next to the the marvelous ThinkLight
- Decent speakers, a place were no TP has ever gone
- DVI or HDMI output for use with modern projectors and monitors
- keep the IBM Logo

I really hope somebody in the decision/design-making team reads our posts, they all come from people who want what's best for all of us. These words come from a guy whose both of parents worked for IBM since the 70's and I myself worked on IBM software products for the past 6 years. Keep up the good work.

SpaRood · #99 Post by **SpaRood** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:37 pm

sokos wrote: - keep the IBM Logo

I second that!

dr_st · #100 Post by **dr_st** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:00 pm

sokos wrote:A top quality and bright, gloss 14.1ws

Gloss should be optional.

sokos wrote:2.3 kgs maximum with 6 cell battery that lasts 3hrs (depends on how good the 965 will be)
At least a X1600 256MB VGA (a DX10 would be great, but it's too soon i m afraid)

Achieving these two at the same time would be hard, though. A high-end video adapter eats lots of battery.

sokos wrote:Hi-Res Webcam, CCD for dark enviroment, next to the the marvelous ThinkLight
Decent speakers, a place were no TP has ever gone

Would love to have that too.

sokos wrote:keep the IBM Logo

I think it might be too late for that, but I would like that too.

Daniel · #101 Post by **Daniel** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:47 pm

sokos wrote:Really good article by Matt, thanks for the link boyAfraid.

I have been an owner of a T21, T40 and T41.
This week I was about to order the T60ws, but i decided to wait since i discovered this awesome forum for Thinkpad freaks such as my self.

My "i-want-it" list for the T61 is:

- A top quality and bright, gloss 14.1ws
- 2.3 kgs maximum with 6 cell battery that lasts 3hrs (depends on how good the 965 will be)
- At least a X1600 256MB VGA (a DX10 would be great, but it's too soon i m afraid)
- one piece 1GB, 800Mhz RAM chip
- Hi-Res Webcam, CCD for dark enviroment, next to the the marvelous ThinkLight
- Decent speakers, a place were no TP has ever gone
- DVI or HDMI output for use with modern projectors and monitors
- keep the IBM Logo

I really hope somebody in the decision/design-making team reads our posts, they all come from people who want what's best for all of us. These words come from a guy whose both of parents worked for IBM since the 70's and I myself worked on IBM software products for the past 6 years. Keep up the good work.

That sounds exactly like my next computer.. It's down to either this or one of HPs business models. The 965 chipset should be great for power consumption. I'm assuming the bus underclocking along with a die shrunk manufacturing process will make it enough of a difference to save some battery life.

RasStarMan · #102 Post by **RasStarMan** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:56 am

Hey Daniel,
The HP models are solid but they are no substitute for the T60ps. I use a NC6400 t2500 1.83 GHz, 2GB, 60Gb HD. The speakers are poor and there is some latent lag to it. Of note the integrated sd card slot in the front and the smart card (if you need it) on the side are great additions. I also use an older D610 and though its a bump up I wish my company would have gone with the T60s instead.

ally0801 · #103 Post by **ally0801** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:31 pm

I have been waiting for this exact laptop since last summer. 14inch widescreen t. Finally!! Does anyone have any idea what the price will be when it is released? Does Lenovo typically have like a new release sale when they come out with new models?

sokos · #104 Post by **sokos** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:38 pm

great minds (thinkpaders) think alike

Another thing, i really hope they don't place the exhaust fan at the bottom! it's really annoying plus it makes the machine's life shorter, coz there are times i love to take it on my lap at home.

I m typing this post from a brand new R60 I got for some work today. It's keyboard rulez, in contrary with a Toshiba Satellite i bought til my dream T61ws comes out

Mike5966 · #105 Post by **Mike5966** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:15 pm

Hi everyone, I am new to the forums... I am waiting for this 14-inch widescreen to replace my 9 pound Thinkpad A31. I will say the primary reason for sticking with Thinkpads is because I am so used to this trackpoint button that I can't imagine going back to using the trackpad.

I ordered a 15 inch widescreen t60p three weeks ago (2.0 GHz, 100 MB 7200 rpm, 2 GB, Vista) but then canceled it when I actually saw the thing at Circuit City later that week. It just looked so huge and had those ugly empty bars on the side of the keyboard. For some reason it doesn't look so bad on a mac or a Z61t where that space is used for speakers, but just completely empty like that, it just bothered me.

I'm still debating between the Z61t and the upcoming t61... I know the t61 will have better graphics processing for Vista and will be thinner in general, but the z61t has the built-in webcam (which I highly doubt the t61 will have), and nicer speakers which are important to me. Decisions, decisions... The z61t looks much thicker and heavier than the current t60 even though Lenovo says it's only 1.2 inches thick compared to 1.1 inches for the t60. Other than that, my only qualms about the z61t are the slanted front and back of the case itself... does anyone else find this ugly?

My perfect laptop would be a 14-inch WS t61 with the glossy screen, built-in webcam, nice speakers built into the empty bars on the side of the keyboard like a z61t, thin like a real t-series, no slanted front and back, and yes, that nice Thinkpad logo.

I don't know why I care so much about how it looks, but I do!

3nigma · #106 Post by **3nigma** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:38 am

Mike5966 wrote:My perfect laptop would be a 14-inch WS t61 with the glossy screen, built-in webcam, nice speakers built into the empty bars on the side of the keyboard like a z61t, thin like a real t-series, no slanted front and back, and yes, that nice Thinkpad logo.

We're all in perfect agreement, I have seen this same list many times from many posters now!

I hope that it happens...

-3nigma

jvarszegi · #107 Post by **jvarszegi** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:20 pm

3nigma wrote:
tomh009 wrote:No. For any given diagonal measurement, a square has the most surface area, and 4:3 is closer to a square than 8:5 is. So for a 14.1" display, the conventional 4:3 is 97 sq in, while 8:5 is 95.2 sq in.

That said, the widescreens often have higher dpi (pixel density) than the conventional screens.
And as a result of the higher pixel density, have better resolution and therefore: more screen space (more data visible on the same space).

Widescreen TVs are 16:9 aspect ratio. For computers they have changed it to 16:10, because at this ratio setting, you can have two open windows side-by-side for perfect viewing. Makes for a fantastic setup.

-3nigma

It is not a fantastic setup for a normal-sized laptop. Even with a 15.4" screen it is not possible to usefully read two side-by-side documents; the type is too small. 14" would be far too small. I've heard lots of arguments for widescreen aspect ratios in laptop, but this isn't the best of them.

pianowizard · #108 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:15 pm

jvarszegi wrote:It is not a fantastic setup for a normal-sized laptop. Even with a 15.4" screen it is not possible to usefully read two side-by-side documents; the type is too small.

But for peope with good eyes, the type is still big enough.

jvarszegi · #109 Post by **jvarszegi** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:57 pm

pianowizard wrote:
jvarszegi wrote:It is not a fantastic setup for a normal-sized laptop. Even with a 15.4" screen it is not possible to usefully read two side-by-side documents; the type is too small.
But for peope with good eyes, the type is still big enough.

No. I have better than 20/20 vision, and even with ClearType turned off the text is simply not usable. That's why you never see people with 15.4" widescreens actually viewing documents side-by-side.

At a 16:10 ratio, the height of a 15.4" screen is just over 8". Half the width of the screen is around 6.5". If you think someone can actually do work under those conditions... you don't do work on your laptop, you play games. I, with my better-than-average eyesight, have tried extensively to use side-by-side documents on a 15.4" screen. It doesn't work.

If you want to demonstrate this for yourself, even if you don't have a 15.4" screen available, try scaling a Word document using a standard font, such as 12 pt. Times New Roman, to these dimensions and printing it. Heck, throw in a few footnotes while you're at it. Once you've done this you will be forced to agree with me, even if you don't admit it here.

EDIT: Just wanted to mention that on a 14" screen, in side-by-side mode, each Word document or what have you would be displayed at the humongous size of around 5.9" X 7.4".

#110 Post by **JaneL** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:28 pm

jvarszegi wrote:If you think someone can actually do work under those conditions... you don't do work on your laptop, you play games.

Tone it down.

jvarszegi · #111 Post by **jvarszegi** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:32 pm

nonny wrote:
jvarszegi wrote:If you think someone can actually do work under those conditions... you don't do work on your laptop, you play games.
Tone it down.

Okay, I am sorry. This is hopefully better:

If you think that someone can actually do work under these conditions, you've never tried. It's completely impossible. In addition, you may badly mislead someone by posting something of that nature here, just based on your wishful thinking or guess. Keep in mind we're really debating the merits of 14" widescreens. You're advocating the use of a screen space a little bigger than a 4 X 6 card for viewing a document.

pianowizard · #112 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:18 pm

jvarszegi wrote:If you think that someone can actually do work under these conditions, you've never tried. It's completely impossible. In addition, you may badly mislead someone by posting something of that nature here, just based on your wishful thinking or guess. Keep in mind we're really debating the merits of 14" widescreens. You're advocating the use of a screen space a little bigger than a 4 X 6 card for viewing a document.

I view two documents side by side EVERYDAY on my 15.4" WUXGA Dell laptop. That's a pixel density of 147 DPI. For a 14.1" WSXGA+ screen, the pixel density is 140.5, so the text will appear quite a bit bigger.

dr_st · #113 Post by **dr_st** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:57 pm

pianowizard wrote:I view two documents side by side EVERYDAY on my 15.4" WUXGA Dell laptop. That's a pixel density of 147 DPI. For a 14.1" WSXGA+ screen, the pixel density is 140.5, so the text will appear quite a bit bigger.

Leaving the comfort argument aside for a second, what is it that you do that requires you to view two documents side-by-side EVERYDAY on your laptop?

P.S., I just switched my CRT to QXGA (2048x1536) resolution. As Zangief from Street Fighter would say: "My screen real-estate is much greater than yours."

yus9 · #114 Post by **yus9** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:56 pm

Speaking of the UXGA FlexView display...

Lenovo's employee purchase plan has the following machine on its outlet (usually last chance closeouts) page.
Nice price, but I'm waiting for the WSXGA 14" T61.

Description ThinkPad T60 2623DDU
EPP Outlet price $XXXXXXXXX

Intel® Core Duo processor T2500 (2GHz, 2MBL2, 667MHzFSB)
Windows XP Pro
Display 15.0 inches UXGA IPS TFT FlexView display with wide viewing angle and high density (1600x1200)
Memory 1GB PC2-5300DDR2 SDRAM
Hard drive 100GB, 7200rpm Serial ATA
Optical device 4x Max DVD Recordable EIDE Ultrabay Slim drive
Wireless cards Verizon Sierra CDMA2000, Bluetooth Version 2.0 + EDR, Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
Graphics 256MB ATI Mobility FireGL V5200
Client Security Solution and Integrated fingerprint reader
Weight 5.82lbs
Dimensions Width 13.0" x Depth 10.5" x Height 1.2"
Battery 9 Cell Lithium-Ion Battery

Note from Moderator: No EPP price discussions in the forum.

3nigma · #115 Post by **3nigma** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:57 pm

Deleted all the posts?

pianowizard · #116 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:00 pm

3nigma wrote:Deleted all the posts?

Nope. They were moved to this thread. Thanks for doing that, Mike.

iatacs19 · #117 Post by **iatacs19** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:33 pm

Any updates on the T61 WS notebooks?

I hope they offer glossy screens.

pianowizard · #118 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:41 pm

iatacs19 wrote:Any updates on the T61 WS notebooks?

Have you seen this thread? Yeah, I too hope they will have glossy screens. The Dell Inspiron 700m that I owned for almost two years had a glossy screen and I loved it.

taob · #119 Post by **taob** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:30 pm

iatacs19 wrote:I hope they offer glossy screens.

I don't understand the fascination with glossy screens... reflections and glare everywhere! I love the matte finish on my T60's 15" Flexview... deep blacks and rich colours, and I don't have to sit in the dark to avoid reflections that wash out the display.

larsv · #120 Post by **larsv** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:51 pm

taob,

Some glossy screens have better coatings than others. In theory a glossy surface should have denser blacks than a matte surface, but it depends on the lighting conditions and how good the scren coating is.

If you often work in brightly lit conditions where you can not position the screen to minimize the reflections then glossy might be a problem.

Personally I prefer glossy screens for evaluating photographs, as I get a higher density (darker) in the dark areas. But it depends on the particular display being used. My current laptops were selected based on screen quality - the new T60p I ordered will be an exception as I was too late to order an IPS screen.

Lars

T61 / 14" WS

T61 / Intel Santa Rosa platform to ship

from the horse's mouth

t61 question price?

z61t versus t61 (14 inch WS)

Re: z61t versus t61 (14 inch WS)

Glossy screens

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