T60 widescreen shipped, but serial number indicates samsung

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jonnylaw · #1 Post by **jonnylaw** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:06 pm

So I just got my shipping details on my ordered T60 and did a FR lookup and its a Samsung. Are the the LG and Samsung really different in contrast ratio? What should I do? Return it and order another and hope for the best? When I called, the service rep was upset and told me that all these people ranting on the message board are full of bull and that the screens are exactly the same w/ exact same performance and build quality. He said there was no way to specifically request an LG panel over a Samsung. What should I do?

Also, I do no autocad or maya, but am a casual gamer and use powerpoint. Is the radeon x1400 a better GPU than the firegl5200 for my needs?

Thanx for your imput!

pianowizard · #2 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:19 pm

My feeling is that only people who are very picky about LCDs would notice a big difference between the two kinds of LCDs. If you aren't one of these people, you shouldn't worry about it.

I haven't compared LG and Samsung monitors side by side, but I have compared Flexview versus non, and DVI versus VGA, and couldn't tell the difference between them, so I am pretty sure that I wouldn't find the Samsung LCDs inferior to the LG ones.

#3 Post by **BillMorrow** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:04 pm

when i was researching flat panel TV's a year ago or so, the samsung displays (TV sets) were just a little better than the LG TV sets..

your mileage will vary, of course, since i was looking at TV's and there might be a difference in laptop displays..

re. flexview, aka IPS..
these are superior and the reason, AFAIK, that the 1200x1600 panels are not offered is the maker went bankrupt..

sad because it was a super display..

jonnylaw · #4 Post by **jonnylaw** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:08 pm

hmmm. So the consensus is the Samsung/LG are clearly inferior to displays w/ flexview technology. But the samsung is still inferior to to the LG? So would the best thing to do is to not open and return. Wait a month and reorder the T60 or order the upcoming T61?

jonnylaw · #5 Post by **jonnylaw** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:22 pm

Does anyone have proof on paper that the Samsung display is a subpar lcd compared to the LG/phillips (i.e. lower contast ratio/brightness) and not just subjective opinion? If indeed, the Samsung display has a smaller contrast ration/brightness in terms of specification, that's enough for me to return my configured system and shop with another brand.

Sorry Lenovo, but buying a $3000 laptop should not include a coin flipping context/crapshoot to get what you pay for (a proper lcd display worth the price tag). That's [censored].

#6 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:04 pm

jonnylaw wrote:Does anyone have proof on paper that the Samsung display is a subpar lcd compared to the LG/phillips (i.e. lower contast ratio/brightness) and not just subjective opinion? If indeed, the Samsung display has a smaller contrast ration/brightness in terms of specification, that's enough for me to return my configured system and shop with another brand.

Sorry Lenovo, but buying a $3000 laptop should not include a coin flipping context/crapshoot to get what you pay for (a proper lcd display worth the price tag). That's [censored].

You start off asking the question if the Samsung display is a subpar lcd compared to the LG/phillips. Then you go on to accuse Lenovo of not using a proper lcd display worth the price tag. How can you make that accusation without having even seen it yourself? Pure hearsay and speculation. I venture to guess that 95% of T60 purchasers are perfectly happy with their displays. It is that other perhaps 5% that are super critical. Yes, if the display used is what makes or breaks a system for you, then by all means buy what will make you a satisfied customer - whether that be a ThinkPad, Dell, HP, or whatever.

Lenovo does not manufacture LCD panels themselves. As such, they purchase panels from several LCD panel manufacturers. If you go to Lenovo's blog, you will see that they have had some significant shipping delays as a result of LCD panel shortages. Perhaps what is more important to some customers is receiving a ThinkPad in a timely manner once it is ordered. It has already been pointed out that the original flexview LCD manafacturer went out of business. If Lenovo had relied solely upon them for LCD's they would be up the creek without the proverbial paddle. Lenovo has chosen not to put all their eggs in one basket, and this is not necessarily a bad business decision on their part.

My 2 cents on this topic...
[I do not work for, nor am I affiliated with Lenovo or any display manufacturers in any way]

jonnylaw · #7 Post by **jonnylaw** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:24 pm

^^Good points. Thank you for your perspective and suggestions. I understand the importance of getting ordered products to customers on time, so multiple manufacturers of parts helps supply reach the demand of customers.
Am I wrong to expect that If a company chooses to have multiple sources (Samsung/ LG/Phillips) of a partiucular part (LCD screen), then all products should be realtively equal in performance and quality?
Granted, they are both the same resolution, but if one display is superior to the other by more than 1% in anything (like contrast ratio or brightness or reliability or expected life), then I believe this should be dislcosed to the customer, instead of having to do a friggin part number search after paying and keeping my fingers crossed.

If the Samsung and LG screen are exactly identical in all important spec's (which, although hearsay, does not seem to be the case--please someone prove me wrong if that's the case). then I really have nothing to complain about, unless I open up the system and see for myself and am dissapointed. But, with a 15% restocking fee I'd rather make sure I have the best system that my money can buy. If the T60 widescreen can't do that for me because of the way Lenovo chooses to do business, then I guess I'll just have to wait until these lcd issues get resolved in the future or opt for another manufacturer.

Am I the only one who is uncomfortable spending $3000 on a "premier performance" machine that involves a 50/50 crapshoot on the display?!? I was also told, that when I ordered my t60 wodescreen that the firegl gpu was not available and will never be available for the T60 widescreen. Then, 2 days later, the T60p widescreen w/ firegl gpu is made available to order. Granted reps may not get such information that advanced in time, but 2 days later--you mean the reps don't know that a configuration is going to come out in 2 days. Come on!! That's reason enough for met to return the system.

jonnylaw · #8 Post by **jonnylaw** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:42 pm

Here's the link that seems to indicate the Samsung displays have a 300:1 ration while the LG's have a 500:1 ratio:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/TFT_display

ibm meister · #9 Post by **ibm meister** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:58 am

I am considering T60 WS. Am concerned as my current 2623-D6u had issues. Took 3 tries to get a good one. At one point, had 2 identical machines together, one with a screen washed out and two bars dimmer than the other, I did not check the manufacturere at that ime, but it was obvious that they will indeed use VERY different lcds in same units. Thats why I am so leary about ordering.

So much for the idea that they are "all the same quality"....

npish · #10 Post by **npish** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:44 am

I would imagine that this has to be an issue with all major laptop manufaturers (i.e. Dell, HP, etc.), no? Seems to be an inevitable result of using different suppliers for the same parts; I suppose, in the interest of consistency and product integrity, the goal must be to minimize the qualitative variation among suppliers; I agree that it is UNACCEPTABLE to feel as if ordering a premium grade laptop constitutes some sort of a crapshoot, especially with regard to a component as crucial to the user experience as the LCD;

nevertheless, it is certainly true that only a fraction of the consumer base would really notice the difference--*ahem*--even though that's not a sound justification for using sub-par components;

#11 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:02 am

I will concede that the difference in contrast ratios between the Samsung (300:1) and the LG/Phillips (500:1) displays as posted in the ThinkWiki link is somewhat of a surprise to me. I feel the best solution would be for Lenovo to offer the LG/Phillips panel at a premium price as an upgrade over the standard configuration. That way the purchaser who demands the best display will be able to pay the premium and know what he or she is getting.

#12 Post by **ryengineer** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:43 am

It has been said before and is being again, LG-Philips panel is better than Samsung only if you compare them otherwise if you don't have anything to compare with; Samsung is not a bad choice.

I had a T60 with Samsung panel and never knew it was inferior in anyway, until I got one with LG-Philips panel.

pianowizard · #13 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:39 pm

GomJabbar wrote:I feel the best solution would be for Lenovo to offer the LG/Phillips panel at a premium price as an upgrade over the standard configuration.

I totally agree. I mentioned something similar perhaps a year ago regarding the different kinds of keyboards.

jonnylaw · #14 Post by **jonnylaw** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:17 pm

As an update--I am returning the unopened thinkpad (after difficulty receving the correct amount of ups shipping labels). Also, my original sales representative refuses to answer any of my e-mails of calls regarding my concern over the samsung/LG issue.

All another rep had to say was both screens are up to Lenovo's standard for wsxga screens. I say that the screens perfrom differently w/ different spec's and the rep tells me that is no concern to her or Lenovo. This makes me want to write a letter to someone higher up on the Lenovo foodchain but I don't speak Chinese. Anyone have suggestions?

As of now, I am very dissapointed in Lenovo's choice of how they do businesss and I'm not sure I will buy another thinkpad.

primedude · #15 Post by **primedude** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:23 pm

This makes me want to write a letter to someone higher up on the Lenovo foodchain but I don't speak Chinese.

I don't know how facetious you were being, but Lenovo is headquartered in Raleigh.

#16 Post by **ryengineer** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:23 pm

Well, I never had any major issue with anything so far but one has to agree there has been some quality concerns since Lenovo took over.

jonnylaw · #17 Post by **jonnylaw** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:24 pm

Returned unopened widescreen t60 today w/ prepaiid shipping labels sent from Lenovo. Awaiting refund to credit card. I Will not order again until lcd issues are resolved.

primedude · #18 Post by **primedude** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:00 pm

"I will concede that the difference in contrast ratios between the Samsung (300:1) and the LG/Phillips (500:1) displays as posted in the ThinkWiki link is somewhat of a surprise to me."

Looking at that link, it occurs to me that those contrast ratios are only given for the WXGA 15.4" screens. Do we know those same ratios apply to the WSXGA screens on the T60s?

Also, I thought contrast ratios were one of those metrics that are notoriously "fudge-able" and not particularly helpful when comparing one manufacturer's measurement to another. I'd be interested to see what a side-by-side comparison looks like, but personally, I wouldn't be too upset if my Thinkpad comes with the "inferior" screen.

Jonnylaw, obviously this is a dealbreaker for you and I of course respect that, but it sounds to me like the screen problem has been resolved as far as they're concerned. Lenovo doesn't think any difference between the two screens particularly matters, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a revision in policy. I hope you didn't have your heart set on a Thinkpad.

ThinkTay · #19 Post by **ThinkTay** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:30 pm

jonnylaw wrote:^^Good points. Thank you for your perspective and suggestions. I understand the importance of getting ordered products to customers on time, so multiple manufacturers of parts helps supply reach the demand of customers.
Am I wrong to expect that If a company chooses to have multiple sources (Samsung/ LG/Phillips) of a partiucular part (LCD screen), then all products should be realtively equal in performance and quality?
Granted, they are both the same resolution, but if one display is superior to the other by more than 1% in anything (like contrast ratio or brightness or reliability or expected life), then I believe this should be dislcosed to the customer, instead of having to do a friggin part number search after paying and keeping my fingers crossed.

If the Samsung and LG screen are exactly identical in all important spec's (which, although hearsay, does not seem to be the case--please someone prove me wrong if that's the case). then I really have nothing to complain about, unless I open up the system and see for myself and am dissapointed. But, with a 15% restocking fee I'd rather make sure I have the best system that my money can buy. If the T60 widescreen can't do that for me because of the way Lenovo chooses to do business, then I guess I'll just have to wait until these lcd issues get resolved in the future or opt for another manufacturer.

Am I the only one who is uncomfortable spending $3000 on a "premier performance" machine that involves a 50/50 crapshoot on the display?!? I was also told, that when I ordered my t60 wodescreen that the firegl gpu was not available and will never be available for the T60 widescreen. Then, 2 days later, the T60p widescreen w/ firegl gpu is made available to order. Granted reps may not get such information that advanced in time, but 2 days later--you mean the reps don't know that a configuration is going to come out in 2 days. Come on!! That's reason enough for met to return the system.

1) This is not a "Lenovo" problem but a characteristic of laptop manufacturers in general. Every laptop company I know uses multiple screens, heck, they use whatever hardware they want. they sell specs, not hardware. I had the same problem with my Acer 8204 (I have a T60WS now).

2) Dell uses the EXACT samsung screen you speak of, as do other manufactuers.

3) I suspect Lenovo has contracts with Samsung that are specified years in advance, and has zero say in the screens they are shipped.

ThinkTay · #20 Post by **ThinkTay** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:31 pm

jonnylaw wrote:Returned unopened widescreen t60 today w/ prepaiid shipping labels sent from Lenovo. Awaiting refund to credit card. I Will not order again until lcd issues are resolved.

Is this your first laptop? That would explain a lot. These issues aren't going to go away.

jonnylaw · #21 Post by **jonnylaw** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:47 pm

ThinkTay wrote:
jonnylaw wrote:

No. This would have been my fourth. I currently am working on a Dell latitude d600. And Lenovo is having big shortages on lcd's right now and has lost a key manufacturer recently. You think this kind of issue won't go away?

jonnylaw · #22 Post by **jonnylaw** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:53 pm

ThinkTay wrote:
jonnylaw wrote:

1) So you're saying that other manufactures use multiple panel sources for the same part that have differnt spec's (different contrast ratios?). At least when you buy from Dell you know you're getting a Samsung screen and not a coinflip for "premier performing display". AND it is a Lenovo problem b/c the company touts IBM performance and reliability, but imho, such practices by Lenovo without disclsoure to customers are not good for goodwill in the IBM marked products it has been licensed to sell.

2) So what? Do other manufacturers also have a 50/50 chance of getting a 300:1 contrast ratio screen (samsung) vs. a 500:1 contrast ratio screen (e.g. LG/Philips)?!?

ThinkTay · #23 Post by **ThinkTay** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:40 pm

jonnylaw wrote:
ThinkTay wrote:
1) So you're saying that other manufactures use multiple panel sources for the same part that have differnt spec's (different contrast ratios?). At least when you buy from Dell you know you're getting a Samsung screen and not a coinflip for "premier performing display". AND it is a Lenovo problem b/c the company touts IBM performance and reliability, but imho, such practices by Lenovo without disclsoure to customers are not good for goodwill in the IBM marked products it has been licensed to sell.

2) So what? Do other manufacturers also have a 50/50 chance of getting a 300:1 contrast ratio screen (samsung) vs. a 500:1 contrast ratio screen (e.g. LG/Philips)?!?

1) No, it is not a Lenovo problem, and yes, they correctly tout IBM reliability. First of all, IBM was plagued by these same problems. There is a quite prevalent graininess issue on the T4x screen, just pop over to those forums and read all about it. These LCD issues plague the entire industry, and happen to hit one company or another at various times. I doubt Lenovo hand selected the screens they are putting in their machines. mayhaps you have a quarrel with that procedure. however, IBM didn't hand select theirs either then

2) Yes, many other companies give you % chance, Dell included. My acer 8200 had 3 different screens (ironically, Samsung was the worst again). That laptop cost me 2200, and I sold it a year later for 1100. This whole concept of 50/50 is silly as well, no one really knows the percent. Just leave off the number. But in the Acer, the MAJORITY of screens were a crappy Samsung one, with a few sprinkled quality screens. Be happy there is a largish percentage of a VERY high quality screen and a mediocre screen, not a ton of a crappy screen

It sounds to me like your beef ought to be with Samsung for creating subpar products, not Lenovo who is practices sound/standard business procedures

T60 widescreen shipped, but serial number indicates samsung

T60 widescreen shipped, but serial number indicates samsung

Do it side by side

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