Why are computer's so difficult?????????????

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kingman99 · #1 Post by **kingman99** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:41 am

Hi

This morning l was thinking about my dealings with the simple computer for simple tasks and came to the following conclusions.

The computer as we know it today is still in the age of the Caveman, case in point why are there so many help sites and forums dealing with every computer problem known to man.
How many computers come with detailed user guides today except for the basic's? There is a reason for this and the reason is because they don't want you to know.
They want this "Mystic" about the computer that has spawned many company's most of them that are not even really needed but
by making everything so confusing force's people to second guess themselves.

I am sure you realize that all of this is not necessary but designed to be this way. Look at the simple TV we turn it on and change channels, adjust the colors, sound and whatnot. We get a user's guide and that's it no further problems. A computer should be this way and probably could be if the maker's wanted it to be.

When something on the computer has to be altered you have to go into sub layer after sub layer of nonsense when all you should have to do is hit one button period and if not then it shouldn't be sold to the general public.

As far as the different virisis, trojans and whatever, this is a problem but if it was solved then it could cause massive layoffs and company's that would have to close. So think about it who is spending money on the cure? It's like the drug company's, they lose if they find a cure.
The people that send all of the virisis and trojans should be arrested and shot or at least put away for 20 years at least. These people that do it are nothing but cowards hiding behind a computer, loser's at best.
If the industry spent enough money to find these cowards l'm sure they could make a difference.

Sorry for my rantings but this whole computer business doesn't make any sense to me.

Alan

Purcy · #2 Post by **Purcy** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:58 am

The human mind is quite more complex and superior to any computer, yet look how little most people use of its capacities; plus no one really knows how the human mind works. To me a computer is a wondrous thing made by a human mind, sort of like the microcosmic equivalent to the macrocosmic brain that created it. I don't think that sort of complexity could be turned on and understood with one button. That is the marvel and passion of owning a computer, for me; to try to unpeel and understand all the layers. Heck, I've been trying to understand my own mind for over half a century - haven't done it yet.

I really don't think anything is held back from consumers, there are just different levels of consumers. Those who want to understand and those who just want to push a button. I love this forum for those of us who want to understand.

Welcome!

pianowizard · #3 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:00 am

kingman99 wrote:When something on the computer has to be altered you have to go into sub layer after sub layer of nonsense when all you should have to do is hit one button period and if not then it shouldn't be sold to the general public.

But that most likely would result in computers with thousands of buttons, which most people wouldn't like.

Back in the early '90s, computers did come with full manuals for all preinstalled software. I bought two 80486 Packard Bell desktops back then and got ~10 thick manuals for each. But computers and software have become much more complex and today's computers would require many more much thicker manuals. So, manuals are now available online instead.

But it would be nice to include some sort of quick guide to basic terms, proper ways to maintain the machine, tips for using Windows, etc. Since 2002, I have bought three new Dells and two new Thinkpads and none of them had any of these.

#4 Post by **jdhurst** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:32 am

I have several broad thoughts on such an issue:

1. I agree - computers and people are like oil and water.
2. That is why many people like me can make a living.
3. It is fairly positive proof that "artificial intelligence" remains an oxymoron.
4. Computers are not much different than Accounting - people mostly hate Accounting as well.

(I happen to like Computers and Accounting)

... JD Hurst

anthean · #5 Post by **anthean** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:58 am

kingman99--I agree with you in principle--especially, the industry practice of releasing buggy (but possibly ground-breaking) software, only to have it replaced by a newer version (with another learning cuve associated with it) a couple years later.

kingman99 wrote:When something on the computer has to be altered you have to go into sub layer after sub layer of nonsense when all you should have to do is hit one button period and if not then it shouldn't be sold to the general public.

Agree here that Microsoft tends to group its settings in a manner that seem logical to them, rather than by frequency of use. Since this would vary by user, some adaptive method would be needed.

However:

kingman99 wrote:As far as the different virisis, trojans and whatever, this is a problem but if it was solved then it could cause massive layoffs and company's that would have to close. So think about it who is spending money on the cure? It's like the drug company's, they lose if they find a cure.

Despite the money made by anti-virus companies, the whole PC ecosystem is driven by Microsoft, and if anything, the proliferation of Windows viruses is a threat to them. I really don't see a conspiracy here.

kingman99 wrote:If the industry spent enough money to find these cowards l'm sure they could make a difference.

I'd really prefer not to have Microsoft involved in law enforcement.

Purcy wrote:I really don't think anything is held back from consumers, there are just different levels of consumers.

I'll beg to differ with you on this one. Back when I began my programming life in the early 80s, I remember a CDC Fortran manual including the actual algorithms used to calculate various mathematical functions, such as cosine, and the error in this algorithm. I dare anyone to show me the algorithm Microsoft uses to calculate cosine in Excel or their Visual Studio environment. My point is that all sorts of what is now considered "lower level" stuff is held back. And most of the time, that is good--life is complex enough just with the stuff that is revealed to users.

Purcy · #6 Post by **Purcy** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:10 pm

Anthean I agree with your reply to me; I continue to try to learn the logical workings of my computer, but from being formerly married to a computer analyst back in the 80's - I am happy to leave some of those layers unexplored. Sometimes for me, ignorance is bliss!

#7 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:17 pm

Some things such as publishing require a variety of menu items to create a unique and eye-catching piece. One just has to spend the time learning what options are available and how to use them. Another example is spreadsheets and databases. There are many mathematical formulas that are used in their creation. One has to learn what formulas exist and how to use them. Then there are macros and merges which can greatly speed up a process, somewhat like what a production line did for building automobiles. All of the above, as well as other software, requires a certain amount of learning to be able to effectively put it to use. I agree that much software is not as intuitive as it should be and could be. Hopefully we will see more gains in this area instead of just the addition of more bells and whistles.

I believe the trick is to use software that only has the features that you need. Many people do not have the time, inclination, or need, to learn how to use a program like Word. Wordpad would be good enough for them.

Hardware is another matter. Installing hardware and drivers should be "plug and play". Instead it is often "plug and pray". There is a lot of room for improvement in this area.

dsvochak · #8 Post by **dsvochak** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:06 pm

Look at the simple TV we turn it on and change channels, adjust the colors, sound and whatnot. We get a user's guide and that's it no further problems.

Until it breaks. Then the average person either calls a repairman or throws it away and buys another one. As jdhurst pointed out, the same is often true when a computer "breaks".

I think there are significant differences between the "average user" and the "average thinkpads.com forum member". The average forum member may be the local "expert" on computers.

The average user goes to a big box store, buys a machine, brings it home and uses it. When it "breaks" he treats it like his tv: he calls a repairman (or his friend/relative "expert") or he buys another one.

All in all, not that difficult for the average user.

kingman99 · #9 Post by **kingman99** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:45 pm

Right now l was going to deep six my 600x even though l really enjoyed it and served me well and replace it with another Thinkpad but!

After looking on Ebay l realized that it was cheap enough to fix it and if it works great and if not l will buy another one.

The hard drive is under $50, and if l need a new O/S which l might it will also cost under $50 (wind 2000). All that l need is an O/S that will allow me to search the internet and send and receive e-mails.

For this kind of money it doesn't pay to make myself crazy because l don't store anything on my laptop, l store everything on other sites like snapfish, kodak and AOL.

Alan

PS If l have to buy an operatind system which one would be the cheapest?

Thanks

#10 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:51 pm

kingman99 wrote:PS If l have to buy an operatind system which one would be the cheapest?

I would not go with the "cheapest". Windows 2000 is very good, and this is what I would recommend for you. Windows XP is even better, but it will be more expensive. I never did like Windows 98SE. Windows 98SE would work, but it is just too out-of-date IMO. Any other version of Windows should be out of the question.

If you want to go cheap, Linux and it's varients work well, but they are not really for computer n00bs.

kingman99 · #11 Post by **kingman99** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:18 pm

I will order the hard drive and then pick up a windows 2000 which l already had on it. But l believe it was windows pro 2000 nt.

I liked it and really didn;t have a problem running anything.

Alan

PS the Lunex is going for $2 and $7 to ship it but the price scares me more then anything.

#12 Post by **Kyocera** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:57 pm

This forum and many others are here because of what you mention in your original post. Patience and tenacity are required to do anything on a computer, never give up, just keep plugging away and eventually you'll get it, and learn a lot in the process.

Paranoid_TP_User · #13 Post by **Paranoid_TP_User** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:22 pm

Computer OSs like cars are complicated beasts and need regular maintenace. On the other hand almost every video game and dvd ever made comes with a simple OS, so I suppose it could be possible to make a simple intuitive computer OS, say, that could only browse internet and email, but the more you want the computer to be able to do the more complicated the OS must become, and there needs to be a demand for these simple OSs, which there doesn't seem to be.

Turbo Audi · #14 Post by **Turbo Audi** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:03 pm

My new PC build shuts down every 2 minutes, unless when I am in BIOS, then it takes about 5. Not good.

Software? Hardware, PSU?

Im outta guesses. Prob going to RMA the PSU this week.

Temetka · #15 Post by **Temetka** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:07 pm

Purcy wrote:The human mind is quite more complex and superior to any computer, yet look how little most people use of its capacities; plus no one really knows how the human mind works. To me a computer is a wondrous thing made by a human mind, sort of like the microcosmic equivalent to the macrocosmic brain that created it. I don't think that sort of complexity could be turned on and understood with one button.

That was an excellent piece and very well written. It would appear then, that you my friend have visited the Hallowed Halls of Acadamia.

Now that we are going multi-core this analogy becomes even more true. Each core is a neuron. Once you have thousands of them interconnecting; well then something wonderful happens.

I would love to be around when mankind has such a creation which contains the perfect balance of form, function and thought as to be truly sentient. To pass on a piece of who we are as a whole, to something born from rock and dirt (as are we) would be a truly momentous occasions.

Until Skynet comes online.

Either way I just wanted to say your post was excellent.

kingman99 · #16 Post by **kingman99** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:12 pm

That was from the movie " The Terminator"

And yes they do sell E machines but they are still complicated and still have their share of problems.

And yes every time l have a problem l learn something but it's still so frustrating.

Alan

Temetka · #17 Post by **Temetka** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:28 pm

kingman99 wrote:That was from the movie " The Terminator"

Yes it was.

Purcy · #18 Post by **Purcy** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:33 am

Temetka wrote:
Either way I just wanted to say your post was excellent.

I appreciate everyone on this forum so much, for what I have learned; and thank you Temetka; hey, I just noticed that you joined this forum on my birthday.

Fusion · #19 Post by **Fusion** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:54 pm

I think that if a new ThinkPad came with 2 thick books, it might scare the **** out of regular users.
For example my dad - he uses his notebook for basic stuff like Word, email, browsing the net and Skype.
I show him how to do it once or twice and that's it. All he needs.
On the contrary, I really like to get deep inside of my Thinkpads, and I'm not frustrated that I don't have a manual to help me.
I frequently visit a car forum, where people help each other solve car problems. Of course the manufacturers aren't very happy considering that I learned how to fix the fuel pump etc. But I'm just that DIY kind of person. I love getting inside and the joy of fixing something is awesome.
Back in the day when I was repairing ThinkPad 760CDs and the like, IBM repair manuals were a great help, but I only needed it once and I'd remember it the next time.
One of my favorite systems though is trial and error.

#20 Post by **bill bolton** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:49 pm

kingman99 wrote:this whole computer business doesn't make any sense to me.

Just step well away from the keyboard and keep your hands in plain sight. Do not make any sudden moves!

Remain calm..... the cool Mac guy will be along soon to pack up your PC and ship it away, so it wont trouble you anymore.

bigtiger · #21 Post by **bigtiger** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:31 pm

Kingman99, you make my day. I was laughing all along while reading your piece.

yes, I agree, the whole computer business does not make any sense to me. So do many other businesses! The whole world is not perfect at all. We just have to tolerate it.

Paranoid_TP_User · #22 Post by **Paranoid_TP_User** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:16 am

Fusion wrote:I frequently visit a car forum, where people help each other solve car problems.

Can I ask the name of the forum you visit? Sounds like something I would like to do myself!

kingman99 · #23 Post by **kingman99** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:15 am

Corvetteactioncenter

corvetteforum

Fusion · #24 Post by **Fusion** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:39 pm

Paranoid_TP_User wrote:
Fusion wrote:I frequently visit a car forum, where people help each other solve car problems.
Can I ask the name of the forum you visit? Sounds like something I would like to do myself!

Probably wouldn't be much use since its in Czech

Search Google looking for clubs of the car brand. Most clubs have forums and most people are willing to help.

ronbo613 · #25 Post by **ronbo613** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:58 pm

I think computer hardware is pretty straightforward, I enjoy building and upgrading computers.
In my view, 99.99999% of computer frustration has to do with software.

Why are computer's so difficult?????????????

Why are computer's so difficult?????????????

Re: Why are computer's so difficult?????????????

Windows 2000 it is

Skynet ??????????

Re: Skynet ??????????

Re: Why are computer's so difficult?????????????

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