T42p 2373 KTU screen looks just awful. Is this normal?

[MommyT]

Hi- New member here with longish question and pressing need for advice, assistance. As brief as possible, story is my old A30p was stolen from my house (shame on me for not bringing it along to work that day). Replacing, decided I'd be more apt to bring a lighter model, and thus settled on T42p with best resolution screen available in 14" model, ordered the 2373 KTU model from an on-line guy with good prices. Machine arrived and the screen looked just terrible. A big white blob on the Windows startup screen in the upper lt. hand corner, less obvious blobs elsewhere on that screen, a white line down the middle of that screen. Text boxes fade out from dark on lt to lighter on rt. on many windows screens (for example, user log-in), color fades dramatically from top to bottom of screen in most applications where single color is used, type on NY Times home page and other places appears variably dense, and when I scroll, type blurs and becomes blue instead of black until I stop scrolling. PC doctor screen test had 3 color bars looking much darker on lt of screen progressively lighter toward the right. IBM world screen looks silver-grey except late at night, not blue as i'm used to. This is definitely the worst looking screen i've ever seen.

OK, so the on-line guy immediately agreed to send me another and take this one back. Except the second machine arrived looking exactly like the first. IBM in Atlanta told me they had no idea what this might be, urged me to send second machine back to on-line guy too. but he refused it and after receiving 1st machine back, claimed it was normal for this model! Even claimed he'd had it looked at by IBM who also said it was normal! Tried to assess me 15% restocking. I finally agreed to send machine #2 to IBM and said I'd keep it if they could fix it. Solectron facility returned it 1 day later with the ubiquitous "replaced system board" comment and missing the nice bag and the little bar code lables i'd sent the computer in with, but the screen looks just as rotten as it did before. So here are my questions
HAS anyone ever seen/heard a description like this before?
DOES it sound normal for this machine?
WHAT should I do?
Thank You
Mommy Telegen

[sktn77a]

Don't quite know how to interpret your descriptions without seeing pictures posted (can you do this?) but if you didn't see the white blobs and the color streaks on your old computer, there's something wrong with the new one.

Try to post some pics.

[Conmee]

In particular, if you could run the PC Doctor test for your screen and take pictures of those... run the Video Device|Default Display tests--red, green, blue, luminance, geometry and focus tests. Take pictures of each of these so we can see what you are talking about.

But from your description, sounds defective. Of course, it's rare that you'd receive to different machines display the same serious problems with the screen like that. Getting dead/stuck pixels is one thing, but blemishes and significant variation in backlighting is another.

Daniel.

[MommyT]

I have photos on my computer, but dont know how to get them somewhere so that i can attach them to this post. If anyone can give me instructions, I could do it.

[Kenn]

I have photos on my computer, but dont know how to get them somewhere so that i can attach them to this post. If anyone can give me instructions, I could do it.

If you want to email them to me, I'll post them up for everyone to see.

[Kenn]

Got the images, the OP can link to them whenever they wish.

Editorial: I believe most of the issues are just a misunderstanding with Microsoft, just to calm anyone thinking that IBM or their retailers may be shipping out grossly defective screens, but I'll let the OP present the issue in their own words.

[MommyT]

Here's the link to pictures with description of my problems: [http://www.pbase.com/kenn/telegen_pics]

Kenn feels most of these observations are not evidence of screen malfunction. I'll copy the core of our conversation below, including my residual questions. I appreciate all information, advice. Thanks

This is what I wrote:

Sometimes I see the same "blob" coming up from the lower rt. hand corner. Also design element?

>>0520 - I can see the fade, but I'm not sure if it's a defect. Does it
go away at 90 degree viewing angle? Does it move to the top at <90
degrees? Some people have mentioned they can see the backlight through
the edge of the screen bevel, this might be a case of that. Is it
noticeable during regular use?<<

Fade does NOT go away at 90 degrees, in fact top stays darker than light throughout range of lid opening. When screen flush with keyboard, bottom of screen looks about normal and top looks way dark. Yes it is noticeable during normal use, as washed out appearance of all images at bottom of screen, and as "blotchy" letters on things like NY Times Home Page, Intuit home page, etc. Also, is it normal that letters on NY Times Home Page look blue when I'm scrolling, and black when they come to rest? Blotchy and blue letters really are distracting and not at all what I'd expected for a machine that costs upwards of 3K.

I am not surprised to think these may represent normal, acceptable screen function for T42p-- that's why I am asking this question in this forum rather than return right away to IBM, but still disappointed that this machine doesn't come close to the A30p screen. Is this really as good as it gets?

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[RaysMD]

umm, did you check to make sure your in 32-bit display properties?

[MommyT]

yep, also updated all relevant drivers, etc........

[Kenn]

Hey MommyT,

Here's a cleaner image, and one that shows the "washing out" on selection as well as the other screen elements:

http://www.exhardware.com/reviews/windo ... ndows3.jpg

Note that these images are screendumps taken off the framebuffer, which means it's what the video chipset is outputting and is independent of whether your monitor is working, broken, on, or even off.

I'm not quite sure what you're describing with the NYTimes/Intuit pages. It could be "ghosting" from the LCD, but if you upgraded from an older laptop I highly doubt it would be any worse. My first-off guess is that you have anti-aliasing or cleartype enabled on your fonts, which make them look smoother but less "sharp" (you can't see the sawtooth pixel edges). They're at "Display Properties -> Appearance -> Effects -> "Use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts" -> Unclick this box, hit OK, and then OK again, and see if the resulting text is more to your liking.

I just reread your original post re: PC Doctor, where you say " PC doctor screen test had 3 color bars looking much darker on lt of screen progressively lighter toward the right. " I assume you're talking about image 514. Rest happy knowing that the test image is very much SUPPOSED to start black and move towards 100% red/green/blue towards the right - that's what the test is about

Hopefully someone can answer the backlight/bevel question, I don't have the 14" available on hand to do a test, though from the image 0520 I'd hazard that it's normal.

Overall, it may be that your biggest problem is the narrower vertical viewing angle of the 14" screen - it does tend to wash out if you're not looking at it from an optimal angle. If you decide the screen isn't defective but you you still really can't stand it, you can always check out the 15" t42's which come with Flexview screens, which have vastly improved vertical viewing angles, or Sony's XBrite, which is the same but with a glossy, glass-like screen that makes everyone go speechless when they first see it

Best,
Kenn

[Conmee]

MommyT,

Those look like normal T42p 14" screen shots to me. Even captures the fact that you hadn't set your color depth to 32-bit yet (hence the visible gradients on the light source for the startup screen in the upper left due to 16-bit color), and the higher intensity backlighting coming from the bottom up, which is the case with pretty much all non-Flexview screens.

And herein lies your problem. Most likely, your A30p had not only the 1600x1200 resolution, but also the Flexview LCD technology, which when you compare Flexview LCDs and standard LCDs (like the ones in 14" T42p's), the difference is significant. The 15" Flexview screens on the A30p and 15" T42p are superior to the 14" screens in terms of brightness, uniformity of the backlighting, color contrast (black v. white, light v. dark colors), and color saturation. Normally, I can't tell much difference when using my 14" T42p, but I had to work on a 15" T42p with Flexview screen at home this weekend, and the striking difference between the two LCDs had me wishing there was a 14" Flexview option from IBM.

At any rate, if you want a screen as nice as the A30p, you'll have to get a 15" T42p. There's no other way to come close to the resolution and screen image quality.

You'll always get somewhat conflicting opinions and reports on to which screen is better, the 14" LCDs or 15" Flexview LCDs, but if you like your A30p screen better than your current 14" T42p, that's all you need to know: you prefer Flexview and you need to get a 15" T42p.

I've had and worked with both types of screens, and although I prefer Flexviews immensely, the form factor of the 14" T42p's keeps me from getting the larger screen, hence my wish for a 14" Flexview which would be the best of both worlds to me, and many others on this board.

Daniel.

[Kenn]

MommyT,

And herein lies your problem. Most likely, your A30p had not only the 1600x1200 resolution, but also the Flexview LCD technology

Daniel.

Nice call, Daniel. I had no idea what an A30p was, so I assumed it was a several-years-old-XGA clunker Obviously that's not the case.

MommyT, if you were working on a UXGA flexview (like I am now), I can easily see your disappointment when encountering a non-flexview screen. I love all the advantages of the 14" t42 myself, but even still I wouldn't give up the 15" high-res display!

[MommyT]

thanks so much to all. This is so helpful. Now why couldn't IBM give me these answers when I called them and told them the exact same things and offered to send THEM photos (they didn't want them)?

Yes, changing "effects" helped a little with mottled letter appearance.

I'm still troubled by the idea that the screen color seems so sensitive to changes in ambient lighting (IBM world map was grey-blue this afternoon, almost midnight now), and top of the screen remains so much darker, such that it's impossible to get an image that is consistently acceptable across the entire screen. Is this really what the rest of the non-flexview world has lived with all these years? Interestingly, I don't see the problem on my husband's pretty old 12" screen TP 240. I do like the smaller form factor though, and besides, I can't think of a way to get the online guy to take it back so i could buy the 15" screen even if I wanted to, so i guess i'll have to get used to it. Too bad IBM has no local showrooms; I'm pretty clear if I'd seen the screen beforehand, I might have opted for a different machine.

Any advice on minimizing the problem of backlight making bottom of screen too bright, if that's what i'm seeing?

Abigail

[Conmee]

MommyT,

I think a good portion of the color saturation and washout problem in larger screens v. say a 12" screen is that the larger viewing area and viewing angles of a >=14" screen make these differences all the more perceptible. I've got an older 12" ThinkPad and even a 7.5" TP510 with a DUAL SCAN LCD which look fairly good still, and at smaller screen sizes the limited viewing angles are less pronounced, would be my guess.

Again, most people haven't seen a Flexview screen (although folks on this site are the exception), so they don't know any better. lol But for most folks who see the Flexview LCDs, the superiority of the Flexview is self-evident.

Even this site looks considerably better on a Flexview. Take a look at T Series forum listing all the threads/topics, and you'll see that on the T42p 14" LCD, the white line dividing the light blue topic rows pretty much washes out and blend into each other, but on the Flexview screens, you can see a clear difference.

If there is no way to return the unit, and you really really really want Flexview, you should be able to get 80-90% of your purchase price by selling it on eBay. Just mention that there are no dead/stuck pixels, brand new, all original packaging, etc, etc. Someone will pick it up most likely. In the end, you'll probably be happier with Flexview than getting used to your current machine, even if you have to take a loss on it. Also try posting in the For Sale forum on this site as well. Likely to run into a reputable buyer here.

Daniel.

[mr_mbuna]

Are you sure that's now how its supposed to look? Did your old computer have Win XP Pro? That looks like the proper Win XP Pro startup screen to me... the background isn't supposed to be monotone. Is it still uneven like that even when you're doing something like browsing the net or typing a Word document?