USB only 1.1 on T40p

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dcouzin · #31 Post by **dcouzin** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:11 am

cmarti knows a lot more about computers than I do, but I am leery of his acceptance of BOTH unproved causes of the motherboard USB 2.0 problem. When he says to handle the computer with two hands AND to use external power for USB devices, he is buying into two theories: that solder disconnections cause the mb USB 2.0 problem AND that excessive amp drains cause the mb USB 2.0 problem. I've seen another theory in http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/piper ... 26884.html. Maybe one of cmarti's theories is true, but probably not both.

Incidentally, before I flexed or drew power from my T42 with new mb it already showed the USB 2.0 failure. Lenovo must have tested it before returning it to me, but they might have tested it with one of the USB 2.0 devices that it works with -- some it does, others it doesn't.

Coreman's recent experience with a new mb seems like mine: symptoms got a little worse! Coreman on the one hand believes the USB 2.0 problem is a software or firmware problem and on the other hand intends to return his TP for warranty mb's until USB 2.0 works. Don't these contradict? (The fact that USB 1.1 works but not USB 2.0 doesn't itself point to software/firmware, when you consider that devices recognized as USB 2.0 are routed to different parts of the circuit.)

I'm trying to get used to the PCMCIA barnacle protruding nearly 3 cm from the side of my T42 -- its black plastic and the styling match the T42 pretty well. It's either this or else another (and another ...)warranty mb.

The T4x USB 2.0 problem should be stickied here and Lenovo should be pressed for an explanation. Does Lenovo have a clue?

nietsloh · #32 Post by **nietsloh** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:28 am

dcouzin wrote:I'm trying to get used to the PCMCIA barnacle protruding nearly 3 cm from the side of my T42 -- its black plastic and the styling match the T42 pretty well.

What brand/model did you get? I'd like to have one that matches the computer, too.

cmarti · #33 Post by **cmarti** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:57 am

dcouzin wrote:Maybe one of cmarti's theories is true, but probably not both.

You are right, but do a search for usb failure in the forum and you will find just the same.

I too also had a T40 in the past.

dcouzin · #34 Post by **dcouzin** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:31 am

nietsloh, I'm in Germany where I bought the (retail) cheapest brandless USB 2.0 cardbus. Really, on the front it just says: "highspeed USB2.0 cardbus" and on the rear it boasts "design in Taiwan". Windows XP recognizes it as having an NEC USB2.0 chipset. The point is, unlike the Thinkpad's, this USB2.0 works. Hopefully your bootable rescue CD also provides drivers enough for it to work at USB2.0 speed. I've tested that a "BartPE" CD does, but I'm unable to test whether Rescue and Recovery's bootable rescue CD does, because my R&R refuses to make a rescue CD.

My cardbus came with a 1000 mA external power supply which I think is prudent.

Concerning style, I was lucky that this cardbus has a black plastic shell with texture similar to the T42's palmrest's and lines harmonious with the T42's. However its 28 mm protrusion is excessive. It only needs 17 mm to receive the USB plug. The other 11 mm is unnecessary, and a smaller barnacle would be nicer. Good luck shopping.

coreman · #35 Post by **coreman** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:49 am

dcouzin wrote:Coreman's recent experience with a new mb seems like mine: symptoms got a little worse! Coreman the one hand believes the USB 2.0 problem is a software or firmware problem and on the other hand intends to return his TP for warranty mb's until USB 2.0 works. Don't these contradict? (The fact that USB 1.1 works but not USB 2.0 doesn't itself point to software/firmware, when you consider that devices recognized as USB 2.0 are routed to different parts of the circuit.)

You misunderstood what I was saying...I returned the machine to Lenovo for them to fix the USB 2.0 problem...personally I don't think they can fix with motherboard, I think they are going to have to roll back the BIOS or find another firmware that works. But I don't care how they fix it, as long as it is fixed.

However I suspect, perhaps naively, that IBM/Lenovo Tech centers have unpublished solutions for this problem. I have no doubt that the new mobo is worse than the old one and reinforced my original decision to continue the "driver dance" until I had other reason to change out mobo.

As I understand, the USB transceiver chips are designed to throttle down to 1.1 when they encounter problems. Their behavior is controlled by the firmware instruction sets which sit in memory...I think the problem results from a driver-BIOS-hardware incompatibility...

PCMCIA USB ports use entirely different hardware/drivers so I am not surprised that they work and work well.

But since my machine is still under warranty, I am going to force Lenovo service center to come up with a solution...I'm betting they have a fix for the problem already. However I am completely willing to "wait them out" for an acceptable resolution...

We'll know in a few days....

dcouzin · #36 Post by **dcouzin** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:05 pm

coreman, sorry I misunderstood you. You plan to return your computer to Lenovo to do whatever they must do to repair the USB 2.0 problem. But it seems they don't know what to do except to replace motherboards. This must cost them $100 each time. If they had a software solution they would make it available for download, wouldn't they?

Please keep us informed.

My warranty expires in November, and having no spare computer I'm in a poor position to press the case.

coreman · #37 Post by **coreman** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:27 pm

Okay...here's the latest (I think I'm just going to keep using this thread for new posts)...Lenove notified my IT Tech that my T41 was ready yesterday afternoon. The tech went to the repair center, plugged in his USB flash, and got the "This device can run faster if..." message.

So Lenovo kept the notebook for more diagnostics. Today I followed up with the tech and he told me that Lenovo called this morning and said it was a "software" problem but didn't detail exactly which software was the problem...driver, BIOS, Win XP, etc...

Notebook is supposed to be ready this afternoon but no one is available to pick it up (even me) until Monday...so I'll post back Monday on the situation. I just hope it is repaired...I am more than a little hacked that Lenovo declared the notebook repaired when it actually wasn't.

That tells me they probably changed the motherboard again and didn't test the port or it is certainly possible that they couldn't replicate the failure after they did their "repair" (mobo replacement??) using their in-house tools.

At any rate, I am accumulating some strong evidence that my problem isn't solely a hardware problem...otherwise simple mobo replacement should have fixed. Lenovo is having to do a lot of work on my behalf...

lautamas · #38 Post by **lautamas** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:42 pm

Coreman...keep us updated. One thing for sure, it's hardware problem...not merely software...

PhilS · #39 Post by **PhilS** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:10 am

My T40 had the same USB 1.1 speed issue which suddenly became much worse. No USB 2.0 device would work when attached to the machine. Only my old USB 1.1 camera would work in any of the ports. This problem occurred with Windows and two versions of Linux, which eliminates an operating system's drivers as a cause. A device had to be plugged into the USB port to enable testing of the port. A plugged in, working, USB storage device, when tested using the BIOS diagnostic routines, showed up as failing.

EasyServ replaced the motherboard (under warranty) and the USB ports have been functioning normally since then. Fortunately, I have another six months of warranty left if it fails again.

Phil Sherman

Rose · #40 Post by **Rose** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:12 pm

Ive worked with numerous T4x-machines at work, and i have one that experiences this USB1.1 issue. This mashine is updated to latest bios, just like a whole bunch of the others. Still I can say that in my case this is not software related because i cant boot this mashine with devices in its USB ports while this is no problem with any other machine.

coreman · #41 Post by **coreman** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:41 am

Here's the latest...got back the T41 today and everything is working properly. Lenovo changed the motherboard again and did some software updating. So this is repair mobo #2...first mobo fixed the problem with turning off whenever I moved it (cracked solder on GPU??) but didn't fix the USB problem and mobo #2 has fixed the USB problem. There may have been another mobo replacement between the first and this one but Lenovo wasn't real clear on this point so I dropped it.

They definitely did software work because I have a new Drivers folder on my desktop and inside are the Bios/EmBed chip/Access Connections and ACPI.exe. But this may have been because replacement mobo didn't have updated BIOS/embed chip firmware.

I had removed Access Connections before because of a wireless problem so I am going to wait until I get home, check my connection to home network, before I remove again. I prefer the Windows WiFi controller...

So based on the Lenovo repair log, it does look like a hardware issue.

But I temper this statement with my original claim and that is the USB problem occurred concurrent with upgrade from SP1->SP2 and the Lenovo upgrades available in Aug of 2006. If a hardware failure occurred during the upgrades, it was extremely bad timing...

At any rate, everything seems to be working fine now...got full USB 2 speed and a brand new keyboard to boot (which I'm loving!, got back that nice 'click'ing sound and firm response when typing)...

But I did forget to ask them to replace the broken palmrest (cracked just below the "right click" button under touchpad...apparently another common failure with T4xx series.)

lautamas · #42 Post by **lautamas** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:00 am

Coreman,thank you for your update. Unfortunately, this, after all, is a hardware problem. I have concluded this after my 3rd MB replacement.

From now on, I dont dare to plug in my external HD (without power adaptor) more than 3 minutes. I always tried to use external USB hub with external power (adaptor) to plug in USB devices.

coreman · #43 Post by **coreman** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:45 am

Two days later, everything is still running great...love having my USB 2.0 back!! However I did have to uninstall IBM Access Connections again...just too unstable for connections, Windows Controller works much better and I don't get dropped connections.

Just a minor complaint, had to activate Automatic Updates so I could download latest patches and the [censored] AU took over my CPU...it started running at 100% and I couldn't do a thing.

Disabled AU...life is good again...

hhmcsv · #44 Post by **hhmcsv** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:13 am

Hi group,
I'm having the same problems with my T40 usb-ports. Does anybody know if the problems are the same using a docking station?

Ruudjah · #45 Post by **Ruudjah** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:16 pm

I bought a cheap docking on ebay, which seems to work totally (the docking). The thing that does not work is USB 2.0. Bummer. So I am still stuck with my USB 2.0/FireWire PCMCIA card.

hhmcsv · #46 Post by **hhmcsv** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:45 pm

I have also yesterday bougth such a port-replicator-II on Ebay at a very reasonable price. (UKL 16). Also because I will get a COM1-port on that, which I can then use for my GPS navigation. Then I do not have to use the USB-port for that function. I'll return with news about the 2.0 functionality at the dock, but probably the function of the dock is just a wire-through.

Souza L'Novo · #47 Post by **Souza L'Novo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:36 pm

cmarti wrote:I too also had a T40 in the past.

laughs

http://www.montclair.k12.nj.us/district ... 900-lg.jpg

huntzer · #48 Post by **huntzer** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:31 am

I also faced the same issue using my T42. But this morning, the issue just disappeared.

What i did:
1) I plugged in a SanDisk Thumb and it detected it as a USB2.0 device.
2) Then i plugged in my hdd that always been recongised as a USB 1.1 device.
3) Then the 2 usb ports just started to recongised all my device as US2.0.

To me, it is not a hardware issue. It is more than a nasty bug.

huntzer · #49 Post by **huntzer** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:07 am

huntzer wrote:I also faced the same issue using my T42. But this morning, the issue just disappeared.

What i did:
1) I plugged in a SanDisk Thumb and it detected it as a USB2.0 device.
2) Then i plugged in my hdd that always been recongised as a USB 1.1 device.
3) Then the 2 usb ports just started to recongised all my device as US2.0.

To me, it is not a hardware issue. It is more than a nasty bug.

Okie. The issue came back again. This time i am [censored]. Again back to the net for solution. I came across a suggestion by a guy who suggested that oxidation could be the reason that resulted in the problem.

As the gap for the USB is pretty small, there is no way to clean it with the tools surround me.

I just plug in and out using my thumbdrive fast and hard. So now, it is back to USB2 now. I dunno how long it will long. But so far so good.

I will report back if the problem came back...

Of cos, if u decided that your usb port may need a good hard screw, and if it resulted in a faulty port. Please do not bill your repair fee to me.

FYI, i gave it a good screw of more than 30 times. In and out,in and Out....hahha...

dcouzin · #50 Post by **dcouzin** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:54 pm

huntzer, it's not contact oxidation. Consider: why would both ports go out at the same time from this?
Fighting the T4x USB 2.0 problem makes us desperate. I did once clean the contacts with alcohol. (Pull most of the cotton from a plastic swab and pinch the swab flat.) Amazingly I then got USB 2.0 speed. Exactly once. I now think the liquid had shorted two contacts.
The T4x USB 2.0 problem is extremely subtle, and long discussions in this forum haven't resolved whether it is a software or a hardware problem. Even the distinction between software and hardware problem has come into question. Nevertheless Coreman after months of certainty that it was a software problem is enjoying the USB 2.0 (apparently) afforded by a new motherboard.
I have two good USB 2.0 memory sticks. One does and the other doesn't give USB 2.0 speed with my T42.
I have a USB 2.0 hard drive that behaves differently via the upper and lower USB ports on the T42, but using a longer USB cable to the drive both ports fail USB 2.0 alike
These strange symptoms are after a motherboard replacement.
No one has given a convincing explanation of the T4x USB 2.0 problem, and Lenovo service is in the dark. If they knew a software fix, they'd tell us. If they had a (surefire) hardware fix, why was their first replacement of my motherboard a failure?
My T42 is back in the shop. This time I sent along the USB 2.0 stick that showed up the problem.

Pennstate · #51 Post by **Pennstate** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:11 pm

I think I was one of the first T40 users to report the USB 2-->1.1 problem. It started to happen ~ 9-10months of my T40 ownership. I had a T40 with Radeon 9000. Does yours have that graphics chip?

I went through the whole MB replacement ordeal. But here is the flaw in the RMA process: the MB that they used to replace your bad MB probably came from the same batch as your original. IBM/Lenovo stockpile parts for the purpose of servicing its products. THey do not manufacture T40 motherboards in 2007 anymore.

Lenovo engineering actually ended up having me send in my T40 and USB 2.0 hard drive to one of their engineering labs in California. They determined that it was a hardware problem. For my trouble, they got me a brand new top of the (at the time) line T42p .

BTW, this was not limited to just IBM thinkpads. Many other early centrino machines experienced the same thing.

I believe it's Intel's fault. One of their earlier steppings of the North Bridge chipset was defective.

In terms of prevalence, the problem happens to T40s, especially T40p and those with Radeon 9000 chips the most often. Less often with the later T4x series.

Interestingly, my problem also started manifesting right after the XP sp1 to sp2 upgrade. Another theory was that SP2 changed how the USB controller "pings" the USB device to negotiate an optimal speed. This is where the hardware vs software issue classification breaks down

My advice to you is to escalate this to corporate or customer relations. Or at least try to get them to replace it with a T41/T42 motherboard.

coreman · #52 Post by **coreman** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:09 pm

Just an update...I am still enjoying USB 2 speed but in all fairness, I connect USB devices to this PC less than 5 times per week...many weeks zero connections.

PennState's reasoning closely mirrors my own...since I also noticed the problem concurrent with upgrade to SP2 and was able to (for 6 months) get USB 2 speeds by doing the Driver Dance although that wasn't a permanent fix.

Since my hardware ran for (2) years without issue and I have a very clear and precise time of failure (concurrent with upgrades) I remain of the opinion that this is a software triggered issue that can sometimes be "fixed" with new motherboards (but seems this isn't a guaranteed fix either).

BTW...I am also a Nittany Lion...

huntzer · #53 Post by **huntzer** » Thu May 10, 2007 1:30 am

i will bring my T42 back to the service center and i will update again. Thank guys for your advice... I got too much crappy stuff inside that is why i am very reluctant to send it back.

It is strange that this issue is not a major problem in Singapore.There is a forum named hardwarezone. There is no case of reporting on this yet...

dcouzin · #54 Post by **dcouzin** » Sun May 13, 2007 5:21 pm

Pennstate's idea that SP2 changed how the USB controller "pings" the USB device to negotiate an optimal speed concurs with Coreman's experience. I had SP2 from day 1, and on day 500 I lost my USB 2.0 speed. So there may be a common hardware partial breakdown that does not show up with SP1 but does show up with SP2.
Can Lenovo study why it doesn't show up with SP1 and rewrite the SP2 driver accordingly? Would this be cheaper for them than replacing motherboard after motherboard?
I got my T42 back yesterday after the second motherboard replacement, and USB 2.0 works! I hope this ends my four month saga and the purchased USB 2.0 cardbus can stay in my 600x.

huntzer · #55 Post by **huntzer** » Tue May 15, 2007 10:27 pm

huntzer wrote:i will bring my T42 back to the service center and i will update again. Thank guys for your advice... I got too much crappy stuff inside that is why i am very reluctant to send it back.

It is strange that this issue is not a major problem in Singapore.There is a forum named hardwarezone. There is no case of reporting on this yet...

Just a update..

My T42 just had the motherboard replaced and the USB issue is solved.

I asked the service guy over at the service center for what could be the possible causes for the issue? The answer i got is...they are not sure...

Pennstate · #56 Post by **Pennstate** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:06 am

The best test to see if your USB 2.0 is "good" is to do a 30-40gb transfer. I copy my 40gb itunes library to a USB 2.0 bus powered HD. My old T40 fails at ~8gb point. I am glad people have finally solved their USB 2.0 issues.

USB only 1.1 on T40p

Docking station?

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