T60p w/ IPS UXGA on Lenovo Outlet!

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2 Bricks Short · #61 Post by **2 Bricks Short** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:14 pm

Is there any reason to believe that they will all have the same screen?

Is it reasonable to assume that if mine has an IDtech screen, I will want to send it back? I'd like to know if, as with my WS, I shouldn't bother opening the box.

Troels · #62 Post by **Troels** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:42 pm

DenTP4rm,
Good find... google didn't show that page for me for some reason

Also, well - the BOE Hydis certainly has been a troublesome screen too just aswell as the IDtech has been. Search for 2623DDU on the forums, and there are quite a few threads with problems with the displays. It's all about luck sometimes.

2 Bricks Short,
What I fear is that this is what Lenovo meant with no shipping to governmental organisations in NY or CA, due to the fact that the LCD isn't RoHS compatible. That reminds the that i owe someone an appology for saying that the problem wasn't with the LCD. It also is.

As to sending it back or not - i can't decide for you. What i know, is that i'm still not conviced of the superiosity of the BOE-Hydis at all. It's certainly miles better than the WS. (Or the T42p was compared to a T60p WS)

evforme · #63 Post by **evforme** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:55 pm

Does anyone here have any comparison screenshots/reviews of the Boe Hydis vs. IDTech panels? I was hoping to get a Boe Hydis panel due to all the good reviews and recommendations. Now I'm not so sure about this purchase.

2 Bricks Short · #64 Post by **2 Bricks Short** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:59 pm

I guess that my hope would be that what I ordered (DDU), is better than what I sent back (WS), no matter who made the screen.

evforme · #65 Post by **evforme** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:02 pm

I'm sure any of Lenovo's IPS offerings are much superior to their WS panels. I just feel a bit scammed with what I feel was a bit of a "bait-and-switch" as the assumption was that 2623DDU => Boe Hydis panel.

okashira · #66 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:46 pm

I'm pretty [censored] off about it. IDTECH is OLD and only in the t43's they are giving us old [censored] screens. They are not even a company anymore I dont think.

What are the specs on the sceen? I know I can goto boe's website and look up the exact specs of that screen. what about the IDtech?

Did someone say DDU's have in the past shipped with IDTECHS?

evforme · #67 Post by **evforme** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:15 pm

Are these the right links?

http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/index.html

http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/pdf ... U3-L06.pdf

Also, how does the IDTech compare with the panel in the 15.4' WSXGA+ WS? Could anyone have experience with both comment on the pros/cons?

Edit: Wow, the response time looks terrible. Is it really as bad as I think it might be (60 ms)?

ahaile · #68 Post by **ahaile** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:21 pm

I just got my shipment notification, but still no serial, so I can't check on my unit's parts.

I did a little web searching to find the specs on the two screens. I'm not sure if these are the exact models used by Lenovo or not, but here's what I came up with.

IDTECH: http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/pdf ... U3-L06.pdf
BOE Hydis: http://www.boehydis.com/eng/03_products ... e=Notebook

Some comparisons (sorry for the text table):
IDTECH HYDIS
Contrast 400:1 500:1
Response 60ms* 30ms
Power 7.2w 6.1w
View angle 85* 90*
Weight 575g 540g

* - the IDTECH's specs say 60ms for "rise and fall." Is that twice what the HYDIS specs are for, or is it the same thing?

Solely based on the numbers, it looks like the IDTECH is an inferior screen.

okashira · #69 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:24 pm

evforme wrote:Are these the right links?

http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/index.html

http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/pdf ... U3-L06.pdf

Also, how does the IDTech compare with the panel in the 15.4' WSXGA+ WS? Could anyone have experience with both comment on the pros/cons?

yep, the specs are not good.
all signs point ot he IDTECH being about as bad as IPS can be.

'worse colors then lg/boe'
'smearing'
'darkening'

it has lesser brightness then the BOE

contrast ratio (very important IMO) is not good at all, 20% worse then the BOE.

and the respnose times are simply horrible. i was planning on playing games on the system and heard reports that the BOE was good on ghosting - the IDTECH quoted response times are thru the roof.

The IDTECH was a panel for the t42's. the t42 panel is not interchangable with the t60... what has lenovo done?!? Does this mean I will not even be able to swap for a BOE myself??

...what to do?

maximus_ · #70 Post by **maximus_** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:25 pm

This is what i found on the IDTech panel

http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/pdf ... U3-L06.pdf

http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/index.html

Is this the model in the ThinkPads?
Ack sorry for the double post!!

okashira · #71 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:33 pm

that's 60 Typ., 120 Max - 120 ms is astronomical! very ugly!

the idtech has/is
-lesser contrast
-heaver
-uses more power
-less bright
-less view angle (not affs like the boe)
-MUCH slower, 60-120ms would destroy movies/games.

all this in a system that we were led to belive had the boe screen (all ddu's are boe prior to this, right?)

again, how has lenovo put this t42 screen in the t60? with modification? does this mean no upgrading to the BOE?

ahaile, please post what screen you get as soon as it shows your serial no.

man, its one thing after another.

maximus_ · #72 Post by **maximus_** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:35 pm

I ordered one yesterday hoping I was getting a real DDU. I totally feel scammed if this is the case

#73 Post by **ryengineer** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:43 pm

Well, you guys should've done those research before.

But just hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Apparently, there was a guy selling this machine in market place, go ask him about the lcd.

ahaile · #74 Post by **ahaile** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:44 pm

okashira wrote: ahaile, please post what screen you get as soon as it shows your serial no.

Will do. I'm going to be using this machine for graphic work, which is why I've been jumping through hoops to get one with a UXGA Flexview screen. And now this? I'm steamed as well.

okashira · #75 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:45 pm

ryengineer wrote:Well, you guys should've done those research before.

But just hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Apparently, there was a guy selling this machine in market place, go ask him about the lcd.

...and what research would you be referring to? that DDU's previousy came with BOE screens?

evforme · #76 Post by **evforme** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:50 pm

ryengineer wrote:Well, you guys should've done those research before.

I actually did call two sales reps about the panel used. They couldn't give me any information on the exact panel (and they sounded clueless as to what I was exactly asking for, so not much help there). I don't think any of us would believe that they would ship a different panel since the assumption was that 2623DDU is going to be the same as any previously made 2623DDU in the past few months. I kind of see this as getting an overclocked processor from a major OEM when originally the chip was rated at a previously lower clockspeed (but they're still the same clockspeed!).

evforme · #77 Post by **evforme** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:54 pm

ahaile wrote:
okashira wrote: ahaile, please post what screen you get as soon as it shows your serial no.
Will do. I'm going to be using this machine for graphic work, which is why I've been jumping through hoops to get one with a UXGA Flexview screen. And now this? I'm steamed as well.

Do a parts lookup with your serial # that should be up on the order page. You should be able to figure out ahead of time what panel you're getting.

okashira · #78 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:54 pm

evforme wrote:
ryengineer wrote:Well, you guys should've done those research before.
I actually did call two sales reps about the panel used. They couldn't give me any information on the exact panel (and they sounded clueless as to what I was exactly asking for, so not much help there). I don't think any of us would believe that they would ship a different panel since the assumption was that 2623DDU is going to be the same as any previously made 2623DDU in the past few months. I kind of see this as getting an overclocked processor from a major OEM when originally the chip was rated at a previously lower clockspeed (but they're still the same clockspeed!).

I feel the same way. We have been misled. I have a small hope that ahaile's system will show up different...but not likely.
Not sure what to do....

#79 Post by **ryengineer** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:57 pm

okashira wrote:
ryengineer wrote:Well, you guys should've done those research before.

But just hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Apparently, there was a guy selling this machine in market place, go ask him about the lcd.
...and what research would you be referring to? that DDU's previousy came with BOE screens?

No, should've researched about which LCD you're gonna get, Exactly!

okashira · #80 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:59 pm

ryengineer wrote:
okashira wrote: ...and what research would you be referring to? that DDU's previousy came with BOE screens?
No, should've researched about which LCD you're gonna get, Exactly!

Uh, I (we) DID research on what screen we were going to get. BOE screens. THis is why many of us ordered.

But they're sending IDTECH screens instead.

okashira · #81 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:02 pm

Mmmmm... well.

Anyone intersted in trying to setup a group buy in BOE screens (from the ebay seller?) mabye we can get a good price. I would be willing to set it up. This is all assuming a bunch of us end up with IDTECHS.

pianowizard · #82 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:08 pm

Has anyone used a T42p with this display? If you have, please tell us whether it's really that bad. Oh, did the A31p also have this exact same screen? If it did, A31p users please also share your experience.

Also, isn't it possible to cancel the order?

okashira · #83 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:10 pm

pianowizard wrote:Has anyone used a T42p with this display? If you have, please tell us whether it's really that bad.

Also, isn't it possible to cancel the order?

Yes it is. I am still deciding.. I may buy a BOE, swap and resell the IDTECH on ebay...

okashira · #84 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:11 pm

I know there has been a direct comparison done somewhere on the web between the IDTECH, BOE & LG. I cannot find it. the only thing I remember is the IDTECH stood out as worse then the other two (washed out poor contrast) while the BOE and LG looked fairly close. ayone have this link?

ahaile · #85 Post by **ahaile** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:16 pm

okashira wrote:anyone have this link?

I was just looking at it. From hoya: http://home.att.net/~murphj/wsb/html/vi ... html-.html

The Hydis isn't IPS or UXGA, though, so it's not exactly this comparison.

evforme · #86 Post by **evforme** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:19 pm

I guess I'll be looking to cancel my order tomorrow morning. I really expected better than this from a major OEM. This kind of shady stuff you only really see in smaller shops.

okashira wrote:
pianowizard wrote:Has anyone used a T42p with this display? If you have, please tell us whether it's really that bad.
Also, isn't it possible to cancel the order?
Yes it is. I am still deciding.. I may buy a BOE, swap and resell the IDTECH on ebay...

Where would you plan on reselling the panel? I'm not sure if there's even an available market for this panel.

darrenf · #87 Post by **darrenf** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:22 pm

It is often difficult or impossible to cancel an order that is "in process" (which an order becomes just about the moment you place it). Given that, along with the no-returns EPP policy, I doubt that many of us are able to cancel the order or return the unit.

While that is the letter of the law, if the screen doesn't live up to one's expectations based on prior experience with the same identical model, I would be very disappointed in Lenovo if they didn't make the situation right by replacing the display or taking the laptop back.

Also bear in mind that we only have confirmation of one unit that shipped with an ID Tech display. Based on that sample alone, there's no way to know if some, most or all of the other units will ship with the same display.

Also, ID Tech posted specs of a "new" IPS 15" display whose specs seem a little better than the ones quoted here (in particular, a 170 H/V viewing angle). The literature was dated 2004, so it's entirely possible that the ID Tech displays are better than reflected in the above specs (see "N150U3" here: http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/index_full.html )

My unit shipped about a half hour ago but I don't have a SN yet. It looks like they are rolling out so check your orders people and see if we can run component lists on other units.

-darren

okashira · #88 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:25 pm

ahaile wrote:
okashira wrote:anyone have this link?
I was just looking at it. From hoya: http://home.att.net/~murphj/wsb/html/vi ... html-.html

The Hydis isn't IPS or UXGA, though, so it's not exactly this comparison.

Thanks. The LG SXGA+ FV is clearly better then the IDTECH in those pics. Look at the autumn scene, it's almost as bad as the hydis TN screen.

theres this review: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.a ... nkPad+T60p where he compares the UXGA hydis to the 14" TN hydis... while it's difficult to make such cross-comparison... the review did say the UXGA hydis was the 'best laptop screen ive ever seen.'

here;s another comparison with LG sxga+ 15" IPS to hydis 14" TN...
and the LG wipes the floor with the TN

but no direct comparison hydis to idtech IPS...

the specs do speak for themselves, though.

okashira · #89 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:35 pm

darrenf wrote:It is often difficult or impossible to cancel an order that is "in process" (which an order becomes just about the moment you place it). Given that, along with the no-returns EPP policy, I doubt that many of us are able to cancel the order or return the unit.

While that is the letter of the law, if the screen doesn't live up to one's expectations based on prior experience with the same identical model, I would be very disappointed in Lenovo if they didn't make the situation right by replacing the display or taking the laptop back.

Also bear in mind that we only have confirmation of one unit that shipped with an ID Tech display. Based on that sample alone, there's no way to know if some, most or all of the other units will ship with the same display.

Also, ID Tech posted specs of a "new" IPS 15" display whose specs seem a little better than the ones quoted here (in particular, a 170 H/V viewing angle). The literature was dated 2004, so it's entirely possible that the ID Tech displays are better than reflected in the above specs (see "N150U3" here: http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/index_full.html )

My unit shipped about a half hour ago but I don't have a SN yet. It looks like they are rolling out so check your orders people and see if we can run component lists on other units.

-darren

you are absolutly right. I am waiting on furthur confirmation. I have my doublts on a 'better screen' though, the one you pointed to has the same poor specs.

looking again at one comparison, the LG FV kills the IDTECH FV

evforme wrote: guess I'll be looking to cancel my order tomorrow morning. I really expected better than this from a major OEM. This kind of shady stuff you only really see in smaller shops.

Why not keep and consider a GB on the hydis screens? should be an easy swap.

Where would you plan on reselling the panel? I'm not sure if there's even an available market for this panel.

i'll just throw it up for auction, even getting $100 would help.

okashira · #90 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:37 pm

darrenf wrote: While that is the letter of the law, if the screen doesn't live up to one's expectations based on prior experience with the same identical model, I would be very disappointed in Lenovo if they didn't make the situation right by replacing the display or taking the laptop back.

I didn't think about this. I did get a 2yr onsite on the system I ordered. if the IDTECH sucks, I will rave and rant and see if I can get a Hydis. anyone in this thread in the houston area?

T60p w/ IPS UXGA on Lenovo Outlet!

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