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Fixed: ANOTHER Dead T23? Motherboard/Video issues (PICS)

T20-T23 Series and T30 specific matters only. NOT for T25-Retro.
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dsigma6
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Fixed: ANOTHER Dead T23? Motherboard/Video issues (PICS)

#1 Post by dsigma6 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:10 am

I used to love these things...

Symptoms:

-Unlike the usual deal with the inductors, my T23 would blink the standby light when it was turned on, and the fan would pulse.

-The HD would "pulse" in a similar fashion, turning on and off every second or two.

-Also, other times only the power light would be on, and the fan would pulse. I had a couple times where no lights came on, but the fan pulsed.

-Seems like the screen comes on 50/50.

-Sometimes the machine would boot into Windows, but would freeze a minute later.

-After disassembling the T23 last night to check inductors, I found nothing suspicious. I'm not an EE major, so what do I know anyway. Everything was tightly secured to the motherboard.

-After booting again, I got into Windows, only to have the screen randomly turn into horizontal, shaky blue lines, then the machine shut down. Video chip dying?

My first reaction was to annihilate, but I'm going to at least try to troubleshoot this further. Otherwise, I think I'm just dealing with a lemon.

Any insight?
Last edited by dsigma6 on Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#2 Post by bobgarty » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:15 am

Have you swapped out the CPU? I had a pulsing fan issue with a T23 with a bad cpu - I didn't install a harddrive, so not sure if that pulsed too. Changing the CPU resolved it (that CPU caused pulsing fan in another known good system too) . Worth a try .....
Bob
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#3 Post by dsigma6 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:23 am

I did read that in another thread. I guess that's the only viable alternative...to taking a hammer to it.

In a bit of frustration, I just smashed the keyboard...it bent, but the computer is up and running, installing Vista. I bet it'll freeze in 1 minut exactly.

I'll look for a CPU. Thanks!
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#4 Post by bobgarty » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:25 am

maybe smashing the keyboard re-seated the cpu ... haven't seen that method in the HMM ... lol
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#5 Post by dsigma6 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:29 am

lol...Actually, I hit right on the CPU, inadvertently. I did at least remove and re-seat it yesterday, not that it made a difference.

The Vista install has been running for about 5 minutes, so that's a good sign- for what I don't know, but it's a good sign.

It still probably won't boot after the install is finished.
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#6 Post by dorronto » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:35 am

Dan,


KEEP US POSTED.. :D

This seems to be getting interesting with the hammer thing and all that...................................


Ron
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#7 Post by dsigma6 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:48 am

Here's some pics:

This just happened ten minutes into installing vista-

Image

This was last night-

Image

Aren't they pretty? Tell them they're pretty, they get self conscious.

Oh, and Ron- Don't worry, there is plenty more destruction on the way if this thing doesn't start working (well, after I remove the LCD, HD and RAM!) :lol:
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#8 Post by tfflivemb2 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:37 am

dsigma6 wrote:Aren't they pretty? Tell them they're pretty, they get self conscious.
Yes, Dan...it they are VERY pretty....pretty bad. What are you doing to that poor thing???? :wink:

I'll see if I have a spare 1.13GHz CPU that I can send you.

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#9 Post by dsigma6 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:44 am

Steve, that'd be awesome!! I guess that's the last resort, but the video concerns me. I didn't think the CPU would cause that.
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#10 Post by rkawakami » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:10 am

Dan,

Couple of things to try after you pull the hard drive and have loaded a PC Doctor CD....

If the system has trouble powering up, torque the front left corner of the case (i.e., around the hard drive) by pushing UP under the PCMCIA area with four fingers of the left hand and DOWN with the left thumb at the top left corner of the case. Use only about 2 or 3 pounds of pressure (gauge it by pressing down on a bathroom scale). You may have to hold it until the system has finished POST.

When the system has booted normally and PC Doctor is loaded, start running some of the diags. Start with CPU/coprocesser, system board and then memory.
Ray Kawakami
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#11 Post by dsigma6 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:18 am

I do remember reading about your technique, Ray, and now I finally get to try it!!? What would that indicate, the motherboard having a flexing problem?

I forgot to mention I did run PC Doctor, when I first started having problems. It completed every test, no errors.

Then yesterday I tried to run it- It would get to step 2 of loading the .iso CD, then stop. Once I got into it again, it froze and went to the second scrambled screen posted above.

I'll try your method and report back.

edit: It started after pressing down on the HD area on top with my right hand, and used the left hand to push up on the bottom left corner next to the LCD. I can't really say whether that caused it to start, or if it was going to anyway.

Then I got this:

http://home.comcast.net/~dsigma6/0_VIDEO_004.wmv

It's now just sitting in the BIOS, but that isn't really proving anything. I also broke the CMOS plastic clip, so the battery isn't really connected. That's not my issue though.
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#12 Post by rkawakami » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:31 am

Not really a "flexing problem"; it's more like there's something detached from the motherboard. If the push up under the PCMCIA cage and down at the front left corner doesn't work for powering up, try the opposite: four fingers of the left hand on top left of the keyboard bezel just below the CTRL and ALT keys pushing DOWN and the left thumb under the front corner lifting UP. From my (limited) experience it seems like the problem can be isolated to the bottom of the motherboard (my first technique) or the top (this last suggestion). This can help you narrow the search for the elusive problem.
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#13 Post by dsigma6 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:53 am

Been running PC Doctor now for a while, of course passing every test. I don't know if the flexing fixed it, but it has rebooted successfully a few times. Of course, that's mixed in with failed boots/pulsing fan garbage.
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#14 Post by dsigma6 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:57 pm

Three miracles have occurred:

1) The machine has been running for 3 hours straight.

2) Vista installed completely, and the system didn't freeze or otherwise sputter (And it scored a 1 on the Windows performance scale!).

3) The system was restarted numerous times with no pulsing fan.

I get the feeling it's just because the system feels the need to get my hopes up, urge me on, etc...Then it will laugh at me in a pulsing manner. Once I pack 'er up, it'll flex a bit and I'll try again later.
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#15 Post by rkawakami » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:39 pm

Three words...

DON'T TOUCH IT!! :)

There's probably a hairline crack in a solder joint somewhere that is giving you fits (or soon will be; how's that for being optimistic :) ).
Ray Kawakami
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#16 Post by dsigma6 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:38 pm

Ray- This doesn't really help, but here's exactly what I have to do for it to work:

Left hand underneath, directly between the rows starting with Tab and Fn. Left thumb to the left of the Esc key. Push up on the underside, down on the top.

edit: Looking at your instructions, it looks like I did the same thing.. :)

Then I leaned my right arm across the keyboard with some pressure to hold it down/power it on. About 2 seconds after I release the pressure, the screen goes absolutely mad. The screenshots above look normal compared to now. So it's probably trash then, right?

I always told my fiance to handle it properly, now I get to pay for it!!
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#17 Post by dorronto » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:50 pm

Doesn't sound good Dan. Sorry. BTW..............pm me if you're looking for another T23 P3-1.2 with wifi.............I might be selling soon...

Good luck and hopefully, maybe, somehow..........this laptop will live. :)


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#18 Post by Kaervak » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:57 pm

Man that is so weird. My T23 had broken solder joints on the inductors under the PCMCIA cage and I got it to turn on using the exact same method as you've described. So weird that it isn't the inductors. Maybe one of the surface mount resistors? If you do decide to trash the laptop, I'm looking for a keyboard bezel. *Hint hint, wink wink* :D

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#19 Post by rkawakami » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:09 pm

Kaervak wrote:*Hint hint, wink wink* :D
You forgot the "nudge nudge, say nooo moooorrre!" :lol:
dsigma6 wrote:So it's probably trash then, right?
Probably not total trash. It still may be salvageable. And your technique is a little different than mine. I bend the front left corner (keyboard bezel area), not the left rear near the ESC key.
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#20 Post by Kaervak » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:44 pm

rkawakami wrote:
Kaervak wrote:*Hint hint, wink wink* :D
You forgot the "nudge nudge, say nooo moooorrre!" :lol:
Does your wife "go" eh? Is she a "goer?" :D

Ah Monty Python, some of the best Brittish humor ever.

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#21 Post by rkawakami » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:07 am

Kaervak wrote:Does your wife "go" eh? Is she a "goer?" :D
Well, she sometimes "goes", yes :) .

Let's hope that Dan's system has not "joined the choir invisible".

What do you say, Dan? How's it looking?
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#22 Post by dsigma6 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:10 am

Ron, you shyster! I'll keep you in mind, but I'm probably only looking for a motherboard, if anything. I don't even use this thing anymore, except to clean up the mess my fiance puts on it. Other than that, she said she's fine with just using our desktop.

Ray- I brought the T23 to work today to disassemble again. I'll let one of my worker bees look at it, see if they spot anything.

Then I'll cram it down IT's throat and demand answers.

You've been very helpful, as always.
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#23 Post by dsigma6 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:09 am

UPDATE!

This time I looked at the motherboard under better lighting than I did last night. The inductor closest to the RAM had a hairline crack in the soldering. I barely tapped it and it fell off. I suppose when I was tugging last night I made it worse, but I hope this is the answer.

Look at me demanding all this attention and I've probably got the same issue as everyone else. :lol:

Now it's time to probably destroy the board with sloppy soldering technique.

Wish me luck.

Questions: Is scrambled video a direct result of the inductor being loose? It seems as though everyone else has just had a non-booting, pulsing fan situation, whereas I could boot sometimes but the video was distorted. I just don't want to get my hopes up with a successful soldering job, then still have a problem with the video chip!

Does anyone know if a 30 watt soldering iron would suffice? I imagine so..
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#24 Post by rkawakami » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:06 am

Refer to my T23 "map":

http://www.rkawakami.net/ibm_t2x/mobo_b ... legend.jpg

Would that be the one at E8?

A 30 watt solder iron will suffice. Just be sure to use the thinnest tip possible since it may be a tight fit to get the iron in among the other components.

While distorted video is not what I have typically seen for these loose parts, you could still have other problems. :( .
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#25 Post by dsigma6 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:24 am

Yea, it's at E8. I have a bad feeling, but it's worth $6 to try.
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#26 Post by tfflivemb2 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:38 am

The inductor at E8 is the same one that came off on two of mine.

As for the video...I don't think that the should cause that problem, but who knows.

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#27 Post by dsigma6 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:45 am

Fingers crossed. I'm picking up a soldering iron in a few, I'll report back later this evening.
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#28 Post by Kaervak » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:20 pm

tfflivemb2 wrote:The inductor at E8 is the same one that came off on two of mine.

As for the video...I don't think that the should cause that problem, but who knows.
Same here on the E8 inductor, D9 too. A quick couple minutes of soldering work and my T23 was back up and running. Another thing about the inductors, they don't have a polarity like a resistor or capacitor, you can resolder them in any orientation.

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#29 Post by rkawakami » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:42 pm

Kaervak wrote:<snip>... they don't have a polarity like a resistor or capacitor, you can resolder them in any orientation.
Some capacitors are polarized.
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X22 X24 X31 X41 X41T X60 X60s X61 X61s X200 X200s X300 X301 Z60m Z61t Z61p 560 560Z 600 600E 600X T21 T22 T23 T41 T60p T410 T420 T520 W500 W520 R50 A21p A22p A31 A31p
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#30 Post by Kaervak » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:12 pm

rkawakami wrote:
Kaervak wrote:<snip>... they don't have a polarity like a resistor or capacitor, you can resolder them in any orientation.
Some capacitors are polarized.
I stand corrected. :)

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