T61 + R61 are out!

Message

runixd · #31 Post by **runixd** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:17 pm

darrenf wrote:FWIW, full drive encryption is now available on Seagate laptop drives (.FDE2 I think they call it), but right now I think they are only available to the OEM channel. I saw an announcement of their release about a month ago but have yet to see one available at sites like newegg.com.

-darren

I'm guessing most manufactures will join this as full hard drive encryption is a must for secure laptops.

Here are some new Hitachi drives:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13115 ... ticle.html

147 Gb @ 10 000 rpm.

roberts5 · #32 Post by **roberts5** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:48 pm

Link to IBM's Announcement Letter

darrenf · #33 Post by **darrenf** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:53 pm

From that article on Hitachi:

The product trio released by Hitachi includes the new Ultrastar C10K147, the company's first foray into the fast-growing 2.5-in. small form-factor drive business.

Is there a 2.5" drive that isn't a GO drive? If so, I've not seen it but that's all I can imagine that they are talking about because Hitachi has certainly been releasing laptop (GO) drives for some time.

I doubt that they have a 10K RPM laptop drive, but I certainly wouldn't complain.

-darren

runixd · #34 Post by **runixd** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:43 am

darrenf wrote:From that article on Hitachi:

The product trio released by Hitachi includes the new Ultrastar C10K147, the company's first foray into the fast-growing 2.5-in. small form-factor drive business.
Is there a 2.5" drive that isn't a GO drive? If so, I've not seen it but that's all I can imagine that they are talking about because Hitachi has certainly been releasing laptop (GO) drives for some time.

I doubt that they have a 10K RPM laptop drive, but I certainly wouldn't complain.

-darren

Huh ? That says that Hitachi is coming out with three drives, one of which is c10k147. C10k147 is primarily targeting server market and it is indeed 10k as you can find on Hitachi press release. Anyway, we are way off-topic. T61 is nice

darrenf · #35 Post by **darrenf** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:51 am

runixd wrote:Huh ? That says that Hitachi is coming out with three drives, one of which is c10k147. C10k147 is primarily targeting server market and it is indeed 10k as you can find on Hitachi press release. Anyway, we are way off-topic. T61 is nice

My bad. I thought you were referring to new laptop drives from Hitachi. Not to put too fine a point on it, but since the article didn't mention laptop drives or full drive encryption, what was the point you were making?

-darren

Temetka · #36 Post by **Temetka** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:56 am

So what is this Intel Turbo / Robson technology?

#37 Post by **ryengineer** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:59 am

Temetka wrote:So what is this Intel Turbo / Robson technology?

Straight from Intel:

http://www.intel.com/technology/magazin ... n-1206.htm

nxman · #38 Post by **nxman** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:07 am

I want the IBM logo!

Temetka · #39 Post by **Temetka** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:08 am

So it's some kind of large cache on the motherboard then from what I gather. Interesting....

thj · #40 Post by **thj** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:37 am

Hello. First post here :-)

I'm about to order a new laptop and considering waiting for the T61 but I'm very concerned about the temperature. What do you think about the official numbers from Lenovo, compared to the current T60 (which I couldn't find any temperature details about).

Acoustic noise level: Category 3D (office environment)

Low cooling fan speed:
Sound power level: 3.7 bels (idling), 4.0 bels (HDD seeking)
Sound pressure level at the operator position: 31 dB (idling), 34 dB (HDD seeking)
Middle cooling fan speed:
Sound power level: 3.9 bels (idling), 4.0 bels (HDD seeking)
Sound pressure level at the operator position: 33 dB (idling), 34 dB (HDD seeking)
High cooling fan speed:
Sound power level: 4.0 bels (idling), 4.1 bels (HDD seeking)
Sound pressure level at the operator position: 36 dB (idling), 37 dB (HDD seeking)

Thanks in advance.

#41 Post by **ryengineer** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:39 am

Temetka wrote:So it's some kind of large cache on the motherboard then from what I gather. Interesting....

Indeed, that makes multi-tasking faster and helps in extending the battery life.

darrenf · #42 Post by **darrenf** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:41 am

Temetka wrote:So it's some kind of large cache on the motherboard then from what I gather. Interesting....

I believe the distinction from normal cache is that it's non-volatile.

-darren

runixd · #43 Post by **runixd** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:42 am

darrenf, Even though the drive is targeted at server market, it is 2.5 inch, hence fits into a laptop. Seagates recent drive is 160 gb @ 7200 rpm, though both drives are capable of 3 gb/sec transfers.
Neither says anything about encryption, so I think it is safe to assume that what Lenovo really wanted to say is that encryption will be provided by Vistas BitLocker, which optionally makes use of TPM.
Therefore, it doesn't matter which drive you have, encryption will be identical, but faster is better

runixd · #44 Post by **runixd** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:05 am

Cache is non-volatile

What Robson really is , is a flash drive integrated into the motherboard. The primary advantage is that it wouldn't stick out of your laptop, as usb stick would. Of course there is a bus speed factor and an arguable power saving. If you want Robson in your current laptop, get something like "SxS memory card" and buy Vista. As a bonus you'll also get a full drive encryption.
All I hope for myself is a nvidia graphics card in p series, so I don't feel bullied on linux and a high resolution screen, so I wouldn't have to adjust my head position every time I sneeze. Otherwise, there isn't really much gain.

Puppy · #45 Post by **Puppy** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:49 am

And where are 15" models ? No longer 4:3 (at least 14" SXGA+) at any resolution ? This is complete loss ...

The frame around display (especially at the top) looks awfully thicker than on classic ThinkPads. The design is getting closer to Lenovo 3000 models

runixd · #46 Post by **runixd** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:03 am

Puppy wrote:And where are 15" models ? No longer 4:3 (at least 14" SXGA+) at any resolution ? This is complete loss ...

The frame around display (especially at the top) looks awfully thicker than on older models

It does look thicker, maybe because the display is now shorter, but they had to keep the keyboard height and a touch pad ?

Dimensions are
(Width) (Depth) (Height)
T61: 335 x 237 x 27.6-31.9 mm
T60: 311 x 255 x 26.6-31mm
+24 x -18 x +1

so it is a little bigger overall, but almost 2 cm shorter with screen up.

Puppy · #47 Post by **Puppy** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:19 am

But Z are also widescreens and it does not look that bad there. I still hope the poor list of display resolutions is not final. Lack of W/SXGA+ and W/UXGA availability would be the last nail.

gunston · #48 Post by **gunston** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:59 am

ok,
first thing first,
1. Nvidia chipset, maybe Lenovo realized the Heat Dissipation from ATI chipset across all the model from T43 to T60. Trying to find alternative ways to cope with this issue. Can Nvidia chipset do that???
2. Our Legendary IBM logo is faded/gone ... forever?
perhaps it would re-appear when the Legend (IBM) take back the business.

darrenf · #49 Post by **darrenf** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:00 am

runixd wrote:darrenf, Even though the drive is targeted at server market, it is 2.5 inch, hence fits into a laptop.

No, it wont. This is a SAS drive not a SATA so the bus isn't compliant and my guess is that it is not 9mm thin since it's targeted at servers. That was the point of my original post.

runixd wrote:Neither says anything about encryption, so I think it is safe to assume that what Lenovo really wanted to say is that encryption will be provided by Vistas BitLocker, which optionally makes use of TPM.

Good call. I forgot that this was standard in some versions of Vista (Ultimate only I think). That would be a shame though since on-the-drive FDE is now available and has the added advantage of portability between systems (as long as the BIOS supports an IDE power-on hard drive password).

runixd wrote:Cache is non-volatile

I think you mean that flash is non-volatile. Cache can take many forms but hard drive caching has typically been done with volatile RAM. It is my understanding that this is one of the things that makes Robson different -- it can be used to speed up suspend/restore and reduce power consumption because the laptop can be dropped to a lower power state.

I am very skeptical of some of the speed claims, however, given the speed of flash RAM.

-darren

Dead1nside · #50 Post by **Dead1nside** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:03 am

It really is missing something, My T41p looks elegant. This looks like it's eaten too many burgers.

What is actually physically wrong with having the mic/headphone jacks at the front? The cord sticking into your stomach?

Why is it alright for a 15.4'' widescreen to have the speakers on the side and not for the 14.1''?

I too will have to wait for the T61p WSXGA+. I'm not buying a laptop with a lower res screen.

I applaud the addition of a webcam, as long as they keep the Thinklight, novelty but very useful.

FDE drives as an option is great.

64-bit as an option is also quite good.

Would have to wait and see what graphics cards they put in, apart from the Quadros.

Very sad to see the IBM logo go. I didn't mind the lenovo logo below the screen, but to remove it from the palmrest is blasphemy.

FRiC · #51 Post by **FRiC** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:40 am

It seems like there's less and less difference between the R and T series. The weight difference is minimal, and I actually like the R series design better, without the stupid audio jacks on the front.

The R series also appears to have the card reader built-in by default, while the T series you get either the card reader or ExpressCard.

Hmm, the spec pages on the IBM site is gone now.

Sloba · #52 Post by **Sloba** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:41 am

Ugliness, ugliness, and more ugliness. More generic look and almost no distinction compared to something that we call mainstream.
I do not like this chubby design.

iatacs19 · #53 Post by **iatacs19** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:43 am

any mention of glossy screens?

propellen · #54 Post by **propellen** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:11 am

:\

I dont like the way Lenovo takes the design on the Thinkpad.

liquidous · #55 Post by **liquidous** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:24 am

my t60p fully loaded was just stolen from my rental car in San Fran during the Sakura festival in Japan town.

im utterly heart broken. my data was backed up so i only lost a few weeks of emails, and some very personal pictures of a trip i took, but hoping i can recover from my sd card with some basic software, if not, then i guess i have to accept the loss and move on.

in short. im looking for another laptop now, the t60p was the best laptop ive ever owned, EVER! and ive had a lot of laptops. im interested in waiting for the T61,. i do wish they kept the IBM logo as well, and i think its starting to look , agreed, pretty clubby and ugly. i don't like all that plastic around the screen. why is it there, is the new roll cage behind it.

addition of webcam and the card reader is genius and much needed. thanks.

now all im wondering is how happy am i going to be with a 14" wide screen. i fell inlove with my 15 inch IPS Flexview, now i guess im back to getting a wide screen which was one of the reasons i went to IBM in the first place because they were one of the only makers with 4:3 screens.

im also assuming that the t61 is going to have just as much "ooomph" in the video sector as the t60 did if not more.

are people indicating that the 14inch t61 will be better screen than the purported T61 15inch? if that 15inch fills in the plastic gap more, i would prefer that, .. id love to see them side by side.

i wonder if there exists such a wish list / poll type site that lenovo could take real opinions from (loyal thinkpad users) to integrate into their upcoming models.

i figured i could always go out and find what t60p 15 inch IPS thinkpads are still hanging out there in inventory to replace the model i had, but with santa rosa coming up, and all the latest goodies, im considering waiting now. the webcam is enticing, and the gf wants me to get it , carrying an extra cam is burden.

im definitely configuring in the lojack now as well. wish i did it before , then the cops would have busted down the door of the theif who took it.

Regards everyone

Puppy · #56 Post by **Puppy** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:33 am

Sloba wrote:Ugliness, ugliness, and more ugliness. More generic look and almost no distinction compared to something that we call mainstream.

I agree. The transition from classic T4x to T60 was still acceptable (although we lost those gray colored F keys) but the cheap T61 design is simple end

I don't have anything against Lenovo 3000 series but this seems as the first attempt to merge them with former ThinkPads. The worse part is the display frame. It is too thick and those knurled parts expresses the cheap look.

Time to remind some photos to compare:
http://www.widter.com/foto/lenovo/T60Arche2.jpg
http://www.widter.com/foto/lenovo/T60LaDefense5.jpg

Actually reverting to T60 widescreen design would be still much better.

dsalyers · #57 Post by **dsalyers** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:14 pm

Puppy wrote: The transition from classic T4x to T60 was still acceptable (although we lost those gray colored F keys) but the cheap T61 design is simple end I don't have anything against Lenovo 3000 series but this seems as the first attempt to merge them with former ThinkPads. The worse part is the display frame. It is too thick and those knurled parts expresses the cheap look.

It looks to me like they really did replace the Z-series with the T-series. Although that pic is not neccessarily diefinitive, the casing looks very close to the Z61p I own. The style everything.

I have aways thought the T series was pretty slim (about as slim as you could get before you had to sacrifice significant features). But, the T61 looks pretty thick. So, I wonder since the Z series has been canned, if the T61 is the multimedia desktop replacement (read: heavy).

Basicially, I wonder if they are trying to make a more extreme difference between the T series and the X series. I just hope they kept the CFRP and didn't use ABS on the T61p. I really like my Z61p, but I really do wish that it had the casing material of the T series (rubberized paint included).....

aaaaaakash · #58 Post by **aaaaaakash** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:25 pm

boy, i am so glad I didnt hold out for the T61 and i went ahead and bought my T60 last month. The design has really lost its professional, sleek look and i agree, the placement of audio ports on the front is just horrible.

and no 4:3?!?..that makes no sense to me. I hope they plan on releasing 4:3's very near in the future.

*Note: are the IBM.com links working for anyone?

Dead1nside · #59 Post by **Dead1nside** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:44 pm

I feel almost like waiting until Lenovo falls on it's backside and the Thinkpad rights are passed on, before getting another. You're right, it looks just like the ugly, chunky Lenovo 3000 series.

Maybe I'll move to HP.

dsalyers · #60 Post by **dsalyers** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:53 pm

Dead1nside wrote: Maybe I'll move to HP.

I use a laptop every day for my work, I haul it around with me whereever I go. I hate dealing with multiple machines to do my work, so really my laptop has to be a desktop replacement.

This is the reason I bought the Z61p (I like WUXGA), instead of a T60p. I was dissapointed when I opened up the box and found a laptop that look relatively cheap when compared to a T60p. The frame is noticably thicker (and I found out a cheaper material -- ABS), and it didn't have the rubberized paint that I think makes a TP a TP.

However, after using the Z61p for a bit and comparing it to other laptops I have owned/used. The ThinkPad line is still the choice for me. As I mentioned before, the Z61p uses a cheaper plastic for the cases, and definatly has a similar look as to what is shown in those pictures of the T61. But, it is sturdy -- I have been really impressed with it -- I have had no issues with the system -- and even after four months of pretty heavy wear It still looks new.

I can't say this is the same for other laptops I have recently used/own:

Mac Book Pro - New machine -- I like it, but for numerous personal preferences I will stick with the ThinkPad

5 HP nc5000 - Just over a year, and 2 had their LCD backlights replaced under warrenty, another LCD backlight died recently, but we are not getting it fixed as it is out of warrenty, and the machine has other problems.

Compaq Presario V2000
Held it for about five minutes by the right corner for the base for about 10 minutes -- the flex damaged the trackpad and it never worked correctly again -- I owned this one for just over a year.

Gateway Tablet -- I know three people who use this laptop -- all of them have had a stress fracture appear on the LCD side of the hinge that connects it to a base.

--- -------------------------------------

So, overall I am not really sure there is a price effective equal to the ThinkPads. I mean, the sad truth seems to be that even if the quality of things have gone down to the ThinkPads, they are still seem better then the competition.

What do people around here recommend as a replacement, that acutally surpass the Thinkpads quality?

T61 + R61 are out!

Who is online