560x EEPROM Problem

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SMurf · #1 Post by **SMurf** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:21 pm

Hello,

I've recently come into possession of a 560x. It looks v. nice and with a Compactflash card instead of a hard disk it's completely silent! The only problem I'm having with it is that when I try to boot it the screen simply displays "178" in the corner.

According to the HMM this means that the EEPROM is non-functional. Does this mean that this particular chip, out of all those purty chips on the system board, has died? Can I do anything to fix this or should I start looking for another system board?

whizkid · #2 Post by **whizkid** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:26 pm

You can replace that chip. You have to get one pre-programmed, and they are expensive, and take a lot of skill to properly remove the old one and install the new one without damaging your board.

Or you can replace the system board.

SMurf · #3 Post by **SMurf** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:34 pm

Mmph. Easier to replace the system board I guess. Surely if IBM knew that there was a possibility that this particular chip could fail they would have mounted it in a socket?

Or is this one of those "Your IBM laptop is too old. Let us sell you a new one" type issues?

#4 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:34 pm

Given the age of the system you might want to try checking the CMOS (backup) battery and replacing it if it is weak. Full details are in the Hardware Maintenance Manual which can be found here.

In the "real old days" it might have made sense to socket some components in desktop computers but with laptops that's not too practical. The added cost and space required to put in sockets for most of the smaller ICs vs. the chance of failure would not be beneficial.

SMurf · #5 Post by **SMurf** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:47 am

I checked the CMOS battery, it's giving 2.9V which is within reason. What strikes me as odd is that the laptop won't start without the battery connected. How is the system going to give you the codes for "battery is dead" if it doesn't start at all?

And I'm not saying you should socket every little thing on the board, just that given IBM had given it an error code they knew it might happen and really a ~20c chip shouldn't make a $x00 board useless.

WON'T SOMEBODY PLZ THINK OF THE ENVIRONMENT!!11!!

#6 Post by **rkawakami** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:54 am

Not completely clear on which battery you say needs to be connected in order to start the system. The CMOS battery? If so, my understanding is that you can boot up a system with a dead/removed CMOS battery and all you will get is an error code saying that the date and time need to be reset (163) AND another code for a dead backup battery (161). If you are referring to the main battery being removed and you have a known good AC adapter connected, and the laptop does not power on, then there's some other issue (blown fuse, bad DC jack, etc.).

You have checked the backup battery and it reports near the 3V that it should. It's possible that under load it may drop way below the 2.9V you are reading. If at all possible, install the battery in the laptop and then measure the voltage it is providing (scratch/cut through the plastic wrap around the battery).

As you are getting the 178 error code and not the more common 175 (CRC#1 error), I would imagine that there could be something physically wrong with the EEPROM. You would have to disassemble the system and locate that particular chip and ascertain if someone before you has tried playing around with it or if it has come loose naturally. However, before going through that exercise I'd suggest double-checking the CMOS battery first. From reading many posts here about strange problems, some of them appeared to have been solved by replacing the backup battery.

SMurf · #7 Post by **SMurf** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:05 pm

I was referring to the CMOS battery, disconnect it = no lights, nothing. Connect it = 178.

I've taken the whole thing apart and had a look at the whole system board, they really do cram it on. Is there a way of identifying the EEPROM? There's a couple chips with FRUs stickered onto them but Google says no.

Anyways, I'm getting a couple more of these off eBay, were demonstrated working (displays graphical "ERROR" 161/163 bad backup battery), so I'll be able to sort this out shortly. Luckily we're not being taxed for throwing out circuit boards. Yet.

#8 Post by **rkawakami** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:21 pm

EEPROM most likely is from Atmel and is probaby a 24C01 in an 8-pin SOIC (small outline IC; aka "gull-wing" leads) package.

ref: http://www.atmel.com/atmel/acrobat/doc0180.pdf (page 19 for SOIC outline)

It's strange (to me at least) that the system won't even power up with the backup battery removed. Not sure if this is standard operating procedure with the 560X. All of my 600E, 600X and T2x systems will power on fine without the backup battery in place.

phool@round · #9 Post by **phool@round** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:09 am

I think your on to something Ray. I'm thinking there is a voltage issue to the EEPROM's vcc leg upstream of the CMOS battery. Maybe a cap, oxidation or solder issue. I believe the power should be 3.3 volts powered on. 2.9 off the battery is above the 2.7 minimum so the powered on voltage might be less but not zero otherwise the CMOS battery wouldn't last long.

If it where my laptop I'd be touching up the solder connections to the nearby caps and EEPROM's corner legs - one of the four corners would be vcc. If the EEPROM is socketed I'd lift it out and put it back in to refresh the physical contacts incase of oxidation.

Maybe a shunt component is used to bypass the CMOS battery's + voltage versus the bricks voltage to the EEPROM. I'd be looking for a switching issue too.

In any case the EEPROM is fine since the laptop will boot up, I think the error is not specific to the EEPROM but an issue that effects it.

SMurf · #10 Post by **SMurf** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:03 pm

Well I did have a look at the board after, located the Atmel EEPROM a couple centimetres to the right of the CPU, where I found a big blob of... something over two of its pins. Scraped it off with a screwdriver, but still no dice.

Comparing it with the other 560x's I've just gotten (including one that I've confirmed working), one side of pins seems to be dull as opposed to shiny like the other side. As I have no soldering experience I'm going to try and get my brother to remount it.

P.S. Also exploring CMOS battery issues by comparing with the one from working 560x.

phool@round · #11 Post by **phool@round** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:23 pm

A blob, hmmm. Could just be excess solder flux which is inert or it could be that component overheated and melted which which isn't good. At least you have two that you can compare to. Any chance of displaying a pic?

Dull can mean oxidation or a cold solder joint. If something overheats it can cause oxidation at a rapid rate, cause the solder to become brittle and eventually crack.

gadiyar · #12 Post by **gadiyar** » Fri May 04, 2007 7:05 am

The 560x will not boot off the main battery if the CMOS battery is dead or is not connected. But, once you boot off the AC adaptor, it will happily run off the main battery.

Regards,
Anand

560x EEPROM Problem

560x EEPROM Problem

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