Is it even worth getting a T30 these days?

[Pyroraptor]

Hi,
Recently I decided that I need a mobile machine with more oomph than my 333MHz Powerbook, and a friend suggested that I look on ebay at some thinkpads. After poking around for a while, I decided that the T30 would be a perfect machine for me; nice and fast and not too exepnsive. Then I found out about the RAM slot failure issue...

So I wonder- how common is this? Is it like something that is eventually going to happen to all of them, even those that have been repaired by IBM, or is it something that only happens to a precentage of them, and the chance that one I would buy on ebay would not have said problem. Then of course is the issue that I could buy one on ebay, only for it to fail later on.

I've also looked a bit at the T23s and the T40s, but the T23s have two downsides, they're PIIIs and they use expensive PC133 sodimms, and the T40s are just overall too expensive.

So, what do yout think? Is it worth risking a T30 or should I step down to the T23 or shell out the extra cash for a T40? Maybe I should look at another series as well?

Any and all input is appreciated

John

[pianowizard]

You understand that at the same clock speed, the T30's Pentium 4 is slower than the T23's Pentium III and the T40's Pentium M, right? For this reason and the memory slot problem, the T30 is the least popular T-series model on this forum.

[dorronto]

You understand that at the same clock speed, the T30's Pentium 4 is slower than the T23's Pentium III and the T40's Pentium M, right? For this reason and the memory slot problem, the T30 is the least popular T-series model on this forum.

I can't disagree with the facts, but I'm on my second T30, now with a P4-2.0ghz cpu and it works fine. I didn't pay too much for it so I consider it a good buy. You just have to know prices and be patient when looking for a laptop. That's the bottom line. Good luck.

Ron

[Pyroraptor]

You understand that at the same clock speed, the T30's Pentium 4 is slower than the T23's Pentium III and the T40's Pentium M, right? For this reason and the memory slot problem, the T30 is the least popular T-series model on this forum.

Oh wow, I was misinformed then. I was told that the P4M was much better than the P3. I can get a T23 for about $100 less than a T30 too, so I think I'll just go for that, but I'll also keep my eye out for anything else that looks good.

If I have any more questions, I know where to ask!

[pianowizard]

Oh wow, I was misinformed then. I was told that the P4M was much better than the P3.

Actually, the T30's are faster than the T23's. But because 1.7GHz P4 is equivalent to 1.4GHz PIII, the difference between T30 and T23 isn't as big as the clock speeds suggest. If you find a cheap T30 that costs about the same amount of money as the T23's, and if you're sure that this particular T30 doesn't have memory slot problems, then you should still buy it.

[Pyroraptor]

Oh wow, I was misinformed then. I was told that the P4M was much better than the P3.

Actually, the T30's are faster than the T23's. But because 1.7GHz P4 is equivalent to 1.4GHz PIII, the difference between T30 and T23 isn't as big as the clock speeds suggest. If you find a cheap T30 that costs about the same amount of money as the T23's, and if you're sure that this particular T30 doesn't have memory slot problems, then you should still buy it.

But what if it generates the slot problem later in life? I think I'll just go with a T23 and play it safe.

[pianowizard]

Oh, another thing is that the T30 is slightly heavier than most other T-series models. On the other hand, the T40 is the lightest of the T-series. If you have patience, you should be able to get a nice T40 for under $350 shipped on eBay.

[RealBlackStuff]

The fastest CPU in the T23 is 1.2GHz, and is rather rare.
More common are the 1.13 and 1.00. It takes a max. of 1GB memory, and is rarely wifi-prepared.
The most common T30 is probably 2.00GHz. They range from 1.6 to 2.4GHz. For heat reasons you should not go over the 2.0GHz. If both slots work, and with the latest BIOS you can stick 2GB memory in it. If one fails, you can still put 1GB in it!
They are also nearly all wifi-prepared, and have a bluetooth option.
The T23 has an S-VGA port, but the T30 has not.
The T23 has no UltraNav pad, whereas most T30s do have it.
For sturdiness and expansion I'd say the T30 is much better.

[Temetka]

The T23 uses the SvageIX GPU which is subpar for anything but basic tasks.

I would highly suggest the T40 over both the T23 and the T30.

If I had to choose only between the t23 and T30, it would be a T23. They seem to have been built very well and are very serviceable. I owned one for about 2 years and it was great (minus the craptacular video card).

If it were me and my money I would ignore the T30 line entirely.

[spriggan]

the T30 actually dont have regular pentium 4's. Its a P4-m which is a pentium 4 mobile = the same processor that was used in the centrino platform.

and the p4-m is based on the p3. ... and now the new intel core and core 2 duo are based on the p4-m.

so ...........

[ambientscape]

I would suggest on T23 over the the 30's as well. The extra juice on the 30's is not worth it compared to the T23 if you are going to use it for basic purpose. However, IBM does repaired faulty T30's memory slot for FREE during those days and had since stopped. Those who get their memory slot fixed, shouldn't be any problem.

Well, looking for the 1.2Ghz T23 would be easy, as they are plenty of them in eBay. I would suggest getting the built in wireless and the SXGA+ T23 which is a rare gem.

[Temetka]

the T30 actually dont have regular pentium 4's. Its a P4-m which is a pentium 4 mobile = the same processor that was used in the centrino platform.

and the p4-m is based on the p3. ... and now the new intel core and core 2 duo are based on the p4-m.

so ...........

I think you might be confused.

The Centrino platform is based on the Pentium M architecture which was a complete redesign for Intel in terms of mobile power / speed requirements. True Centrino also utilizes the Intel chipset and wifi options. Centrino is an entirely new (now old) platform which required various hardware components to be working together in order to wear the Centrino badge.

The Pentium 4M was merely a mobile version of the Pentium 4. Fast, but hot and very power hungry. Hence the short battery times on machines with 3.2GHz HT CPU's.

[tomh009]

the T30 actually dont have regular pentium 4's. Its a P4-m which is a pentium 4 mobile = the same processor that was used in the centrino platform.

and the p4-m is based on the p3. ... and now the new intel core and core 2 duo are based on the p4-m.

As Temetka pointed out, P4M is really a P4 -- both use the same Northwood core design. On the other hand, the Pentium M chips (Banias & Dothan) in the later ThinkPads are an evolution of the Pentium III (Tualatin); the easy way to tell is the relatively low clock speed on those systems.

The Core processors continued the evolution of the Pentium III - Pentium M line as well; the Pentium 4 approach of high clock speeds (and high heat!) was proven to be less scalable than the original Pentium II architecture that Pentium III and Pentium M used.

All that said, for a portable system, Pentium III M or Pentium M is the way to go.

[pianowizard]

All that said, for a portable system, Pentium III M or Pentium M is the way to go.

Speaking of "portable", I don't know of any P4 laptop that's lighter than 5 lbs (correct me if I'm wrong though). Is that because they need bigger fans, heat sinks and batteries?

[WarMachine]

Hello,

I second what everyone says here.

T40s are the best choice, but can be still expensive.
If you don't need too much juice, T23 is better than the T30, because of the memory slot failure, on the T30, and the fact that it's an hot machine, heavier, and not so powerful...

I've bought my T23 on february, 350€ shipped from laptopservice.fr (a french site).

The Savage video card is not the better graphics card, absolutely not, but I can run Quake III w/ medium options, XGA resolution. It comes w/ 512 MB RAM (PC133), expandable to 1 GB. 512 MB is just perfect for every day basic use (mainly DVD watching, music listening, and surf with Firefox, for me).

Even if it's not as well built as the 600 series, it remains a [censored] solid laptop, with a [censored] nice screen and a very good keyboard. It's also a quiet machine. The fan doesn't runs very often (sometime when I use Firefox during a long time, or when I load a *.PDF while surfing - I use Adobe Reader 8, so, you understand why ! )...

The only thing that prevented me to buy the T40 is the price of the machine (more than 450€, too expensive for me).



W.

[underclocker]

I'd take an R50, R51 or R52 over a T23 or T30 any day.

Well actually I do every day, as I have a T40, R50, R51 and R52!

A 14" R5x is within ounces of a T30.

T23's & T30's only have USB 1.1 - have you heard of iPods or digital cameras!? The R-series had USB 2.0 since the R40's, case closed. (Unless you can swing a $300-$350 T40, they do exist.)

[pianowizard]

The R-series had USB 2.0 since the R40's, case closed.

Except the R40e, which has 1.1.

[RealBlackStuff]

The fan doesn't run very often (sometime when I load a *.PDF while surfing - I use Adobe Reader 8, so, you understand why !

Get rid of that Adobe Reader and install the (free) tiny-footprint Foxit Reader instead.
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php

[pianowizard]

Get rid of that Adobe Reader and install the (free) tiny-footprint Foxit Reader instead.
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php

Wow, it seems amazing! Perfect for older computers.

[underclocker]

The R-series had USB 2.0 since the R40's, case closed.

Except the R40e, which has 1.1.

Pathetic, but true! Stay away from R40e's!

[WarMachine]

The fan doesn't run very often (sometime when I load a *.PDF while surfing - I use Adobe Reader 8, so, you understand why !

Get rid of that Adobe Reader and install the (free) tiny-footprint Foxit Reader instead.
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php

Yeah, I know that Foxit is better. I used to use it before, but it's not fully compatible, and, if I'm not mistaken, you can't open an online document in the navigator wit Foxit...

However, I totally agree, it's really lighter than Adobe Reader !

W.

[agarza]

I agree with most of the people here to either get a T23 or a T40. However you should be careful with the T40 if you go that route, because If you one-hand pick the laptop it could damage the motherboard requiring to replace it.
It also have a problem (not in all cases) where the USB ports stops working at USB2.0 speed (480Mbps) to 12Mbps (1.1 version).

And yes, keep away of the T30, I had one, and it developed the memory slot problem just when I was about to sell it

[WarMachine]

However you should be careful with the T40 if you go that route, because If you one-hand pick the laptop it could damage the motherboard requiring to replace it

I haven't owned (yet ?) a T40, but I know you must be careful too, if you take the T23 with one hand.

It's, effectively, more flexible than, for example, the 600 Series, and you could damage the mobo.

Too lazy to do a search now, but you can find pics of the problem that can occur on this very forum. However, it seems that the problem can be sometimes fixed with the T23, as it's "just" a soldering problem.

When you carry the laptop, prefer to take it by both sides simultaneously.



The USB problem on the T40 seems to be relatively common too. I second XTR on that point.

W.

[truk]

With all the problems of the similar priced laptops, I'm loving my T30. It's fast enough to do almost everything I do (except the video card, but the 23 is worse and the 40 isn't enough better to even help.) It's not a power hungry laptop on battery mode, and even the memory issue is rather easy to fix on your own. I'd go T30 unless I was gonna go up to T60. The only real grief I've ever had with my T30 is the need to have a PC card in to have USB 2.0, but it even has 2 pc card slots to accommodate (I don't know about the other T series laptops, but most laptops I've seen only have one.)

[helmet4000]

I have owned now a T23, T30, and T42.

The T30 was my first Thinkpad, loved it. Was able to increase memory up to 2GB. I also upgraded to a 2.4ghz P4 from 2.0ghz P4.

I just recently picked up a T23 inexpensively ($150) off Ebay. I spent some money upgrading the memory to 2 x 512mb PC133 modules. It has Windows 2000. Works like a charm. The laptop is thinner in comparison to the T30 and lighter.

The T30 is a great machine, but it is a bit bulky and now that I have a T42 with a 1.7ghz centrino I really notice that it does clock faster than the 2.4ghz ( I do statistical stuff with large datasets and I can get things computed quicker on the T42 than I was able with the T30 even though the clockspeeds would suggest otherwise). Sitting the T30 on my lap

The memory slot failure thing is a real issue and I would suggest avoiding the T30 unless you can get one from a very reputable seller, make sure they will guarantee against it, and get some kind of square trade warranty.

The T42 that I have is definitely thinner and I am aware of the "one-handed" carrying issue (could damage motherboard).

The T30 is is thicker and it certainly is built like a tank. I found a good deal on a T30 for my wife and she loves the machine (especially the keyboard). It has a 1.8ghz CPU and I have 512mb of ram.

In terms of portability however, I enjoy having both a T23 and T42 because I can fit both into my trusty Thinkpad laptop carrying bag.

[Temetka]

the T30 actually dont have regular pentium 4's. Its a P4-m which is a pentium 4 mobile = the same processor that was used in the centrino platform.

and the p4-m is based on the p3. ... and now the new intel core and core 2 duo are based on the p4-m.

As Temetka pointed out, P4M is really a P4 -- both use the same Northwood core design. On the other hand, the Pentium M chips (Banias & Dothan) in the later ThinkPads are an evolution of the Pentium III (Tualatin); the easy way to tell is the relatively low clock speed on those systems.

The Core processors continued the evolution of the Pentium III - Pentium M line as well; the Pentium 4 approach of high clock speeds (and high heat!) was proven to be less scalable than the original Pentium II architecture that Pentium III and Pentium M used.

All that said, for a portable system, Pentium III M or Pentium M is the way to go.

Ah the P3 Tualatin core. Arguably some of Intel's finest work...ever. That core was the culmination of everything they learned with the P6 core. Tweaked, peaked and ready to rumble. That really explains my love for the Pentium M. A highly efficient, relatively cool chip. One must have respect for the engineering talent that went into this chip. The Tualatin was the best of breed for the PII/PIII era, and I am glad to know that it evolved into to something even better, the Pentium M.

I never was, and never will be a fan of desktop / desktop style CPU's in laptops. Sure a 3.2GHz HT P4 15" laptop sounds good on paper, the implementation was subpar and under-whelming to say the least. Hot, heavy, and short lived in terms of battery life.

[ronbo613]

I've been on the road for nearly a month now, my T30 gets banged around quite a bit despite my efforts to take care of it so I'm glad it's has a little beef to it. My batteries last about 75 to 90 minutes, depending on what I'm doing and it's worked flawlessly.
No doubt there are better laptops out there these days, but for "field-type" use, this T30 seems to work out pretty well. I've got to use a wireless and USB2.0 card at times, but it's not a major issue.

[cparker]

I picked up a t30 last year and am very happy with it. At the time I got it the price was very good. It would have cost 50 percent more to get an equivalent t40. I haven't had any memory slot problems, it runs cool and reliably. It is heavier/bulkier than my 560 and other thin/light thinkpads. But it's solid, the keyboard is excellent, the touchpad works perfectly, and it mates with this great docking station (that someone had lying around and gave to me!) which, among other things, allows you to use it with a dvi cable to a large lcd monitor. The docking station seems to have a better graphics card/chip built in, for what it's worth. For windows XP it's fast enough with the 512 ram that mine came with. We use it mostly for web browsing and office type apps. In my case, I got the t30 because I came across someone selling it for a price that was significantly cheaper than any used t40 I could find, at the time. It's worked out fine for me.

[NorrisCell]

My T30 is my third laptop, first Thinkpad. Picked it up for $100 about 9 months ago. Had no HD, no caddy, and a busted AC adapter. I upgraded the components one by one to what's listed in my signature now, and I have a P4 2.2 GHz coming in the mail any day now. It's pretty much maxed out besides the CPU, and the few processor upgrades available are costly and rumored to cause heat problems.

This puts me in a tough situation. I think this is an amazing laptop for its' size ( had a Toshiba Satellite prior to this. Great laptop, but it was a tank), but I'm finding myself wanting more. Faster processor mainly. USB 2.0 is another big one.

With the money I've spent on upgrades, I'd like a chassis that I can reuse a lot of parts from my current laptop. At the bare minimum, my hard drive (Easy). Reusing my RAM and Bluetooth card would be very nice options too.

My question for all those who have owned multiple Thinkpads: Is there a TP that will satisfy all, or at least most of the above wants without breaking me? Cost is a big factor, but I don't mind buying a stripped chassis and piecing it together as I did before. I'd like a faster FSB speed, which will pave the road to less expensive CPU upgrades. Any insight is welcome.

Now that I've gone WAY off course... The T30 has been an awesome compact laptop for me. I haven't had to deal with the RAM slot issue, nor have I had any issues adding a wireless or Bluetooth cards. If the price is right, I don't see a reason why not.

[cparker]

What's "breaking me"? In other words how much could you afford to spend in addition to what you might get for your current t30? If you could, say get 200 dollars for your current t30, then if you could afford another 200 or so I'm pretty sure you could pick up something in the t4x group based on what I've seen in the marketplace/fs forum here. But wait! There were some postings there by people not too happy with there t4x machines and planning on replacing them with -- guess what? A T30 model! So maybe you could arrange a trade and pay even less. In any case, the answer is "yes", assuming you can afford another few hundred dollars to get a new model.