Advice on buying an IBM Thinkpad T43 2668-WMZ

[earthgoosens]

Hello,

I'm planning to buy a Thinkpad T43, type 2668 WMZ as a replacement for my 570.

I would like to have some advice on what I should pay special attention to. I am able to test it before buying it.

The specs of the T43 are:
Pentium Mobile 760(2.0GHz)
1GB RAM
80GB HD
14.1in 1400x1050 LCD
64MB ATI Radeon X300
CDRW/DVD
Intel 802.11abg wireless(MPCI)
Bluetooth/Modem(CDC)
1Gb Ethernet(LOM)
UltraNav
Secure Chip
Fingerprint Reader
9c Li-Ion batt
WinXP Pro

Are there general or specific T43-problems that I should be aware of?
On this forum I read about fan and cooling problems with certain T43-series. Is this relevant for 2668-WMZ too?

Is 450 euro (just over 600 dollar) a fair price for this Thinkpad?

Thanks in advance,

A.

[Temetka]

That price seems fair to me.

[pianowizard]

Is 450 euro (just over 600 dollar) a fair price for this Thinkpad?

That price would be pretty good in the States, but it's very good in Europe.

The T43 that I used to have, 2669-C8U, had the same graphics card and a slower CPU (1.86GHz), and it had a noisy fan. The one you're considering might have that problem too, but it's really not a huge problem.

[EOMtp]

All T43/p units suffer from the problem of too much heat and the fan running almost continuously. Even if you have a "quiet" fan, the noise becomes insufferable. Do yourself a big favor and consider getting a T42 or a T42p unit.

There is nothing of advantage on a T43/p over a T42/p, and the intolerable heat build-up on the bottom of all T43/p units is a non-issue for T42/p units. Further, T42/p units can be upgraded with "non-IBM" hard drives or other components of your choice without encountering the ever-present and annoying "Error 1802" or "Error 2010" problems of all T43/p units.
Good luck!

[agarza]

I agree with EOMtp, however my T42p really get hot in the bottom just below the GPU & the Wi-Fi Card. However the heat can be lowered via Software and thermal paste.
I should say that maybe the FireGL V3200 is faster than the FireGL T2 since it has PCI Express architecture vs AGP.

But for sure, a T42p is the way to go

[pianowizard]

There is nothing of advantage on a T43/p over a T42/p

The T43/p is slightly faster, and much cheaper 1GB RAM modules are available for the T43/p.

[Brad]

Was just going to say the T43/p uses DDR2 memory at 533mhz instead of DDR memory at 400mhz. I guess that would make it faster and the memory right now is cheaper. A worldwide memory glut is making memory very cheap right now. Buy now if you can. I know my T43p is faster than my desktop. I guess I have a slow desktop.

Brad

[EOMtp]

The T43/p is slightly faster, and much cheaper 1GB RAM modules are available for the T43/p.

Yes, but that is not relevant to the question asked by the original poster, who is new to this forum. If we are trying to help him rather than debate amongst ourselves, then he should know that the price difference today is $20 for 1GB modules, and even if one bought two of them, that $40 difference is more than offset by the lower price of a T42 over a comparably-configured T43.

As for the speed difference, why would anyone considering a T4x platform today be concerned about what is essentially an unmeasurable performance difference between T42 and T43 units? If that person were concerned about such marginal speed differences, that person would consider a different platform, such as the T6x series.

To the original poster: Ask around and then make your decision. You will discover that if you ask people who have owned both T43 and T42 units, you won't find a single individual who thinks that the T43 is preferable overall to a T42. (It is likely that someone here will challenge that statement, but the consensus opinion is as I stated.)

Perhaps I can get the point across if I state it in reverse:
You will NEVER regret owning a T42/p instead of a T43/p, and if you have a T42/p you will NEVER have the multiple headaches and annoyances that come bundled with T43/p units.

[agarza]

You will NEVER regret owning a T42/p instead of a T43/p, and if you have a T42/p you will NEVER have the multiple headaches and annoyances that come bundled with T43/p units.

Straight to the point. Get a T42/p (T42 or T42p) you'll not have any hassles with the machine. I can recommend it personally!

[earthgoosens]

Thanks for all advices!

Can anyone tell me what that heat problem is exactly? Is it noticeable when surfing or typing?

As for the speed difference, why would anyone considering a T4x platform today be concerned about what is essentially an unmeasurable performance difference between T42 and T43 units? If that person were concerned about such marginal speed differences, that person would consider a different platform, such as the T6x series.

I do believe the speed difference between the T42 and T43 is unmeasurable (and I'm indeed not concerned about that difference), but in the Netherlands it's very difficult to buy a well-equiped T42 (> 512MB; > 1.5GHz) for 450 euro or less, especially when you want a 14.1inch display.

That's why I thought of buying the T43 mentioned in my startpost and why I was willing to have to deal with these T43-specific problems.

Or are these problems too significant to make it worth buying a (probably) more expensive and slower T42?

A.

[gunston]

wow,
A good deal,
Fairly the same spec as my lovely T43 2668-B97.
Well, just go for it if this is within your budget. and you will enjoy the last classical designed look of IBM laptop; if the Duo Core technology is unnecessarily to you

[pianowizard]

in the Netherlands it's very difficult to buy a well-equiped T42 (> 512MB; > 1.5GHz) for 450 euro or less, especially when you want a 14.1inch display.

Not only 14.1", but one with SXGA+ resolution! 450 Euros for the T43 is a very good price. The heat and 2010 issues are minor. You should go ahead buy it.

[agarza]

Considering the price, it's a very good deal. However, first test drive the laptop and see if it suits for you. Ultimately you're saving some bucks

[EOMtp]

Can anyone tell me what that heat problem is exactly? Is it noticeable when surfing or typing?

No matter what you are doing or not doing with the notebook, the bottom of the T43 gets too hot to be comfortable on your leg. If you were wearing short pants, the heat would burn you.

This heat "problem" is not a performance issue nor is it a durability issue -- it is a comfort issue. If you are not going to hold the unit in your lap, then the heat "problem" is irrelevant and it will not affect you at all.

[GnatGoSplat]

I would buy it. I think it's a good price. I paid US$544 for mine and it only has a 1.86 CPU, 40GB HD, no fingerprint reader, no Bluetooth, only bg wireless, etc. That one has a lot more features for only $56 more.

Probably the hardest thing to get used to coming from a 570 is how much smaller all the text and images are. However, I'm getting used to it and am glad I got SXGA+ instead of XGA.

My thoughts on the problems:
1. The fan does run near full speed a lot, especially after prolonged usage. Sure, it's probably louder than a T42 fan, but it's much quieter than my desktop PC fans. I can't hear it over my TV anyway!

2. 2010 error only occurs if you want to swap out the HD with a "non approved" HD, which I did... and I get the error. It is nothing more than a simple nuisance. However, it pops up for only a second at POST and goes away automatically. It's really no big deal at all. In fact, I hardly ever see it because I just put mine to sleep instead of shutting it off completely. It's a non-issue if you are happy with the HD that comes in it.

3. 1802 error will prevent you from using other wireless network cards, but you have an abg card already so what other wireless network card could anyone possibly want to replace it with? If you want Atheros for some reason to get Super G 108Mbps or something like that, Atheros cards usually have a programmable EEPROM so there are relatively easy ways to make them work. IMO, also no big deal.

3. DDR2 is definitely an advantage if you want to upgrade the memory. The 1GB T43 probably has 2x512MB DIMMs so to upgrade to 2GB requires replacing both. When I checked last week, the price difference between DDR and DDR2 was nearly $60 each ($85 vs $25 after rebate) making DDR2 $120 less to upgrade to 2GB.

Also, maybe this is not true, but I have seen no reports of the GPU coming loose on the T43s and have seen a couple reports of the GPU coming loose on the T42s. Maybe this is just because T43s are a year newer, but if the T43 is really immune to that problem, I would say that is a huge plus on the side of the T43.

[nutjobox]

it seems as if my thinkpad days are over. when they say lenovo's are business laptops, they mean it. those secure chips in there are nice, but since IBM does not include a workaround and charges too much to unlock them out of warranty, you basically end up with an expensive doorstop. fine for people who buy them new and only run them under warranties (businesses) but for "fix it even if it aint broke" people like me they really are not ideal. i hear toshiba laptops are readily hacked/accessed/repaired without much issue, and they are far far cheaper.

my t40 was good though, it was nice while it lasted. i mean until it locked itself out of commission

[GnatGoSplat]

my t40 was good though, it was nice while it lasted. i mean until it locked itself out of commission

How did it do that? Don't you have to choose to use it for it to be a potential problem?

[earthgoosens]

Thanks for all the advice!

Although some of you warned me that I would have some problems with the T43 and should buy a T42 instead, I decided to buy the T43 mentioned in my startpost: the price was to good, and the specs too...

The heat problem is minor: surfing causes the T43 to run warm underneath the palmrest, but never warmer than my 570 did (570 had a (very) warm spot underneath the left side of the keyboard).

CPU-intensive tasks (Tuxracer with motion-sensor...) cause it to run very warm , but it never runs hot, although, in my opinion, it's to warm and so not comfortable to hold it on your lap for al long time (plus 15 minutes).
By the way, this heat is not at all mentionable on the upside of the palmrest.

I didn't have problems with a loud fan either. On startup, it's running loud for a few seconds, but after that, the fan runs relatively quiet, althoug the soud can be annoying in a quiet room. CPU-intensive tasks sometimes cause the fan to run loud for a maximum of about 10 seconds.

To be honest, I did have one problem: the optical drive didn't work. I had it starting one DVD, but I gues I was lucky that time...
The Lenovo's helpdesk sent me a new one.


Does anyone have an idea wether or not it's possible to place the WLAN-card on the place of the Modem-card (I don't need it). On my 570, my brother replaced the Modem-card with the WLAN-card from an old router. These two had exactly the same connection.

I'd like to do this because I think it'll give the GPU some more space (the WLAN-card is placed above the GPU, am I right?) and, as a consequence, cause the laptop to run less warm underneath the palmrest.

Thanks in advance! And thanks again for all the advice that's been given me so far.

[Senser]

Hi earthgoosens,

So you are running the T43 with a quiet fan without other software like TPFancontrol?

[GnatGoSplat]

No, I don't believe there are any WLAN cards that can fit in place of the modem. The modem is proprietary, not MiniPCI like the 570. The GPU is under the long CPU heatsink under keyboard. The chip under the WLAN card is the Southbridge. I don't think it gets all that hot.

[agarza]

No, I don't believe there are any WLAN cards that can fit in place of the modem. The modem is proprietary, not MiniPCI like the 570. The GPU is under the long CPU heatsink under keyboard. The chip under the WLAN card is the Southbridge. I don't think it gets all that hot.

My T42p bottom just below the Touchpad gets VERY HOT, I don't know the reason is the 2200bg card emitting heat. Have anyone heard of this

[Temetka]

WLAN cards can get warm, especially if running in full performance mode. That being said the one in my T41P never get's to the point of heating up so much that it draws my attention. It's in Intel 200BG and most of the time I am running in 'g' mode.

YMMV.

[earthgoosens]

@ Senser
Yes, I'm running it relatively quiet without TPFancontrol. Fan noise is hearable in a quiet room, but when there's some noise around you, it's hard to notice it.

@ GnatGoSplat

No, I don't believe there are any WLAN cards that can fit in place of the modem. The modem is proprietary, not MiniPCI like the 570.

You're right. This picture shows that it are two totally different cards:
http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/d/d6/T4 ... -above.jpg

I checked the type of my modem-card: apparently, it's a modemcard with integrated bluetooth.

So, unfortunately, interchanging the modem en WLAN-card can't be done.