Ignorance is bliss w/IPS Display?

[Patrick_Bateman]

I have never actually seen with my own eyes an IPS Flexview display.

That said, would getting a T60p widescreen really be that much of an eyesore for frequent use of Adobe Photoshop?

The reason I am looking for an IPS t60p is for my two most frequently used programs Photoshop and Solidworks.

The way I see it so far.

Advantages of WS T60p: space for PS windows, ws movies, "more" space.

Advantages of IPS T60p: apparently better viewing angles, overall better display for viewing photos.


Or I could try and get a T60 with IPS w/o the workstation card...but then running solidworks might become a tough task...


Any insight is appriciated.

[SkiBunny]

I have access to virtually every TP available via IBM. And I've tried looking at many screens side-by-side. Ignorance is not bliss.. the flexview screen is far better than standard screens, in contrast, color accuracy & richness, viewing agles, and sharpness. The WS screens on TP are, in my testing , the worst quality, tho only a little worse than the non-flexview standard displays. Not bad, but not good. Of course, there a re different manufacturers for the regular TP screens, which you cannot choose, and that can have a small affect on the quality

But the flexview is only available in the big, heavy 15" form factor.

[Patrick_Bateman]

great. you could have just lied to me

Is there a difference (quality-wise, diff. manufacturer) between the Flexview screens availble on the T60 currently and the one one the T60p?

[asiafish]

I have access to virtually every TP available via IBM. And I've tried looking at many screens side-by-side. Ignorance is not bliss.. the flexview screen is far better than standard screens, in contrast, color accuracy & richness, viewing agles, and sharpness. The WS screens on TP are, in my testing , the worst quality, tho only a little worse than the non-flexview standard displays. Not bad, but not good. Of course, there a re different manufacturers for the regular TP screens, which you cannot choose, and that can have a small affect on the quality

But the flexview is only available in the big, heavy 15" form factor.

Flexview is also available in the small X-series tablet.

[SkiBunny]

great. you could have just lied to me

Is there a difference (quality-wise, diff. manufacturer) between the Flexview screens availble on the T60 currently and the one one the T60p?

I dont think so, because I believe that now there's only one remaining supplier tho in the past there were 3.
Every flexview screen was great. especially compared to the non-flexviews
Exspecially for you as you're doing a lot of photo work.

[cxls]

I have a BOE-Hydis UXGA FlexView screen, and one of my coworkers has one of the new WS T60s. I've never actually looked at them side-by-side, but having seen both I maintain that they're of identical quality.

Even if by seeing them side-by-side I'd be able to say the FlexView is better, I can still say completely confidently that the WS screens are beautiful.

[SkiBunny]

I respectfully suggest you look at some of the T-series reviews (with pictures) over at notebookreview.com ... see for yourself how washed-out the WS is compared to the Flexview.
Some testimonials on this forum corroborate that view too, but the pics over at that site will show you.

I've used flexview, non-flexview and WS side-by-side at IBM, and there's a huge difference.

For photo/imaging work, the flexview is the way to go.

[turnerpr]

Beauty is in the eye.... seriously, for many users I think the widescreens would be just fine, especially as I've heard they've improved the viewing angles significantly. Where the IPS panel has a unique advantage is in color reproduction. Yes, other screens can look very pretty and some of the ultrabright glossy screens are almost surreal in their vivid color. Which is exactly the point -- the IPS screens are best at reproducing color that is "true." Not necc. the brightest (they are not) or the most vivid, but accurate. So when you open that photo and begin manipulating it in Photoshop, you can be confident that what you see is what you will print. Moreover, unlike most TN screens, you can calibrate the IPS panel to finetune its color reproduction. For someone who works with color graphics professionally this IS your screen.

p.s. I believe the UXGA flexviews are no longer available, and that all the IPS 15" SVGA+ panels are being manufactured by IDTech.

[ducky2802]

I use solidworks all day on a thinkpad t60 with the x1400 card. I read that the other ati card is much better for 3d-renderings and stuff, but honestly, I dont know how much "better" it really is...for me, solidworks/cosmoworks is one of my main FE analysis programs (next to matlab), so usually, a faster processor and more memory seem to render solidworks better than a better graphics card. With that said, I ran solidworks 2007 on an X24 with an ATI 8mb radeon, and an old vaio fs with an nvidia card, just for testing, and other than the slow processor in the X24, all three laptops look just fine with the 200 or so component assemblies. Actually, the sony with the xbrite display and weaker graphics card looks better than my T60, but the T60 can run through a complex part analysis in less than 4 hours whereas the sony takes almost a day, and I dont even want to attempt it on the X24.

But portability is also critical, and I find the 14.1" T60 a fine combination of performance and size compared to the heavy vaio and ultralight X.

[Patrick_Bateman]

Beauty is in the eye.... seriously, for many users I think the widescreens would be just fine, especially as I've heard they've improved the viewing angles significantly. Where the IPS panel has a unique advantage is in color reproduction. Yes, other screens can look very pretty and some of the ultrabright glossy screens are almost surreal in their vivid color. Which is exactly the point -- the IPS screens are best at reproducing color that is "true." Not necc. the brightest (they are not) or the most vivid, but accurate. So when you open that photo and begin manipulating it in Photoshop, you can be confident that what you see is what you will print. Moreover, unlike most TN screens, you can calibrate the IPS panel to finetune its color reproduction. For someone who works with color graphics professionally this IS your screen.

p.s. I believe the UXGA flexviews are no longer available, and that all the IPS 15" SVGA+ panels are being manufactured by IDTech.

so the "15.0 SXGA+ TFT Flexview Display with Wide Viewing Angle" that is currently available through the lenovo website for the t60 isnt a "true" flexview and is manufactured by someone else?

[SkiBunny]

p.s. I believe the UXGA flexviews are no longer available, and that all the IPS 15" SVGA+ panels are being manufactured by IDTech.

yes i think so too... have you checked your parts? is yours an IDTech (the SXGA+ flexviews I've looked at are great screens too)

[turnerpr]

Patrick_Bateman --
The 15" flexview screens being offered now ARE true flexview IPS panels. (They have always only been available in 15") When they were originally offered several years ago, IPS screens were also unique in their (extremely) wide vertical and horizontal viewing angles. Lenovo still uses this as a selling point, although now TN panels have gotten much better in terms of viewing angles. But they still can't compare to the IPS panels re: color reproduction.

SkiBunny --

The parts list for my T60 was completely uninformative (no number given at all re: the screen. ) I deduce it is from IDTech because they are the only one of the three original manufacturers of IPS screens for IBM/Lenovo (Hydis, Phillips/SG, and IDTech) who still list a 15" svga+ IPS panel in their product lines. See http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/index.html

[Patrick_Bateman]

hmm well hearing that Solidworks can be ran decently without a v5200 I am considering a regular T60 with the Flexview screen.

Are there any differences between a the IPS display on the T60p and T60 besides the default res? And any significant differences between the notebooks themselves besides the video card?

[turnerpr]

The IPS screens in the T60 and T60p are exactly the same. I think the only significant difference between these laptops is the graphics card. I actually ordered a custom T60 via an edu contract which allowed me to choose the ATI firegl 5250. It says T60 on my invoice but the machine I received is clearly labeled "Lenovo T60p" just below the screen...

[Patrick_Bateman]

The IPS screens in the T60 and T60p are exactly the same. I think the only significant difference between these laptops is the graphics card. I actually ordered a custom T60 via an edu contract which allowed me to choose the ATI firegl 5250. It says T60 on my invoice but the machine I received is clearly labeled "Lenovo T60p" just below the screen...

Hmm well i am currently trying to configure one through lenovo but I don't seem to see anywhere on my description saying that it includes bluetooth...does that mean it doesn't come with BT? Did your come with BT?

I am configuring a T60, btw.

[pipspeak]

Patrick_Bateman --
The 15" flexview screens being offered now ARE true flexview IPS panels. (They have always only been available in 15") When they were originally offered several years ago, IPS screens were also unique in their (extremely) wide vertical and horizontal viewing angles. Lenovo still uses this as a selling point, although now TN panels have gotten much better in terms of viewing angles. But they still can't compare to the IPS panels re: color reproduction.

it's my understanding that TN panels can only display 16.2 million colors vs. 16.7 million for IPS or PVA/MVA screens. Is that still true? That's why TN panels have always beena big no-no for photo processing or other color-critical work.

[RonS]

Using Flexview is like flying in First Class (when it's done right). Unless you've been there, you won't miss a thing. Once you do, it's soooo hard to go back.

[pianowizard]

Unless you've been there, you won't miss a thing. Once you do, it's soooo hard to go back.

In light of the fact that Flexview won't be available for much longer, I think it's better to never use it. Otherwise, all future laptops will look terrible. A case in point: our friend Puppy.

[barrywohl]

I've used an R50p 1832-22U computer since December, 2003. This has a 1600 x 1200 UXGA IPS screen. I recently bought five more 1832-22U laptops to get the UXGA screen.

I prefer this screen to the 15.4" WUXGA not IPS screen but it was a SLIGHT difference for my work. Mainly you could notice it in viewing angle. I did some side by side comparisons and felt the brightness and color fidelity was only marginally different but the viewing angle was fine on the 15.4" WUXGA but better on the 15" UXGA IPS.

The 15.4" WUXGA was on a Z61p that I recently returned to Lenovo. I plan to replace it with a T61p with a 15.4" WUXGA screen as soon as Lenovo starts selling them.

[efrant]

Flexview is also available in the small X-series tablet.

Really? Since when?

[efrant]

Hmm well i am currently trying to configure one through lenovo but I don't seem to see anywhere on my description saying that it includes bluetooth...does that mean it doesn't come with BT? Did your come with BT?

I am configuring a T60, btw.

They are available with Bluetooth. Mine was.

[SkiBunny]

Flexview is also available in the small X-series tablet.

maybe in asia but not in north america.
all we have in the tablet is sxga+

[npish]

hm, I thought all of the x tablets were outfitted with IPS screens (regardless of resolution), no?

[pianowizard]

maybe in asia but not in north america.

Asiafish lives in the States.

[pianowizard]

I've used an R50p 1832-22U computer since December, 2003. This has a 1600 x 1200 UXGA IPS screen....
I prefer this screen to the 15.4" WUXGA not IPS screen but it was a SLIGHT difference for my work. Mainly you could notice it in viewing angle. I did some side by side comparisons and felt the brightness and color fidelity was only marginally different

Okay, I finally had a chance to compare. I just received a virtually identical R50p, the 1832-23U, and am comparing XP's "Autumn" desktop image on the R50p's 15.0" UXGA IPS with the same image on my T60's 14.1" SXGA+ TN screen. When viewed straight on, I agree with Barry that the difference isn't huge, though it's noticeable: The T60 may actually be slightly brighter, but the R50p has richer colors and the contrast seems higher. But their viewing angles are very different indeed.

But for what I do, TN screens are perfectly good enough. I won't have difficulty switching back and forth between Flexview LCDs and non.

[gator]

But for what I do, TN screens are perfectly good enough. I won't have difficulty switching back and forth between Flexview LCDs and non.

(emphasis mine).

I perfectly agree. I have an SXGA+ 15" flexview T60 and a SXGA+ 14" non-flexview T22 ... viewing straight on, there is not much difference in the panels - maybe the flexview is a tad brighter, and colors are a bit better. But no way will I call the TN panels bad - some people hate them, I really don't understand why.

I do like my flexview, but I bought my 15" for size and resolution - that fact that the panel is flexview is a bonus. I am perfectly happy with TN panels.

[BruisedQuasar]

As myy best friend and I have agreed for several years, visual and audio equipment quality are subjective topics in that if you cannot hear or see the difference, there isn't any except for cost.

If others see or hear a difference, then they should pay more but not you, just because you hear or read there is a marked difference.
--Bruised

[Puppy]

TN screens are (and will be) absolutely horrible in every aspect. Lack of contrast, uneven backlight, disturbing dead pixels, bad color resolution, problematic color uniformity ...

Yes, there are slight differences in various TN panels, some of them looks more ugly, some of them less ugly. Unfortunately it seems Lenovo using the lower quality ones. I've seen HP nc8430 (15" WSXGA+ TN screen) and the screen was quite ok, considering it is TN panel. On the other hand, the "thing" in my X31 I can't call a screen at all. It has no viewing angles because solid color on the display surface is not uniform from any viewing angle.

It should be pointed out that the IPS panels used in ThinkPads were 6bit only so they couldn't match IPS based LCD monitors. Still, they had delivered superior quality comparing to current crappy notebook displays ...

[gator]

Puppy, I'll agree with you about the X31 - I had one, and the screen it has awful. But this T22 SXGA+ is far better than that, and beleive me, if this is what T60's 14" SXGA+ panels look like, I would not mind getting them.

I have no idea what kind of panels IBM used earlier and what IBM uses now, but if the T22 is any indication, I think they are ok - you cannot compare them to flexview, of course, the contrast in the flexview screens are excellent. If you mostly work with a laptop on the desk, TN panels are ok for doing work, IMHO. Notice I don't say they are 'great' - TN is not the best panel there is, but you can't beat the price.

[efrant]

Probably another bad example, but I have a x60s with the UltraLight XGA panel, and it is absolutely awful. But when I need portability, I take the hit instead of lugging around my 15" t60p.