Problem getting user Orevin to complete deal

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DenTP4rm · #31 Post by **DenTP4rm** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:41 pm

BillMorrow wrote:no one hacks an account here..
its simply not worth the effort..
and the real orevin would come up for air and complain..

follow the money..
follow the delivery..

Bill,
I trust the forum and I trust you. In our dealings recently I could tell you run a tight ship. I'm sure that from your end all accounts are safe.

If though, by accounts we are referring to the user's login and password, that really wouldn't be too hard to hack from the user's end. A lot of people let their browser store their passwords and logins. Anybody with even passing access to their computer could get in and out and get the information necessary to pose as them.

Password crackers are free all over the Internet. Or an unscrupulous co-worker (or housemate) could install something like Spector Pro and in a day or two have all a user's passwords he needed.

I don't know what happened, but, it is still possible that the real Orevin may be on vacation or traveling on work and somebody who took advantage of his account info got in and posed as him to set up Harryc in this deal.

This might all serve as a "word to the wise" that, if you do deal in merchandise either on the forum or ebay or wherever, that you be careful about your user info. Having said that, I still think the Forum both for buy/sell and help with our Thinkpads is a tremendous benefit to us all. Let's not let one rotten orange spoil the crate.

Harryc, I really feel for you. Please keep us posted as I think all of us would like to see you get some justice out of this and also learn from your experience.

I agree with Bill, follow the money and the delivery. Let the police do their work. I sincerely hope you get your money back.

ajkula66 · #32 Post by **ajkula66** » Tue May 29, 2007 7:49 pm

The very fact that almost everyone on this forum has a hard time dealing with this episode speaks volumes in the respect of members' integrity. A few thoughts from me:

a) Given the fact that the number of registered users here equals population of a small town, by sheer law of probability you'll end up with a crook here or there. By saying this, I'm not implying Orevin-or anyone else in particular-is a crook. I like to believe in innocence until proven guilty.
b) The idea of requiring a positive ID is really up to buyer and seller. It would be sad if we had to put Mr. Morrow in the position to require identificantion from site users worldwide. And, in country with 12 million illegal immigrants, IDs come cheap.
c) There are places where you can cheat a lot easier than you can here. On the forum, one strike will get you out. Takes a lot more than that on eBay.
d) In the age of Internet, HarryC is most likely paying for trusting a fellow forum member one ounce too much. By this I mean sending both machine and the money in a non-retractable fashion. I'm always extremely weary when I have to send an MO for more than 30-40 bucks. Past experiences have taught me so. Nothing beats a purchase by credit card when it comes to security, period.
e) Kyocera might be right in saying that Orevin might be dead or in the hospital. But I somehow have a feeling that this might be a case of a good guy who made some bad choices which led to more bad choices and we're possibly looking at the end result (for now) of one of them.
f) HarryC, I don't know you-or Orevin-from Adam. I do hope that you get to see your money. And if you don't, I hope that you find it in your heart not to forgive, but to say to yourself that he needed it more than you...

Take this from someone who has lost a decade of his savings in a day.

From someone who was told one morning that he has until the end of the day to move out of the shop that he has occupied for five years...or else...

From someone who has come to this country with a bag of clothes and a shrapnel made of deplated uranium that ended up in the B-post of his classic car while he was in it and now celebrates two birthdays.

And way more than that, but this forum is NOT a place for my memoirs.

And who has, after a lot of soul searching, found in himself paths that prevented him from hating the people who have caused all of this.

All the best.

Temetka · #33 Post by **Temetka** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:13 am

I just read both pages of this thread and I find myself saddened by what I have read. I truly feel for harryc and can only hope that somewhere Orevin's better half will tell him to wisen up and come through on his end of the deal.

If I had a spare t4x laying around it would be in harryc's hands right now.

bigtiger · #34 Post by **bigtiger** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:02 am

Kyocera got a point. Orevin might have some problem now which prevents him from fulfilling the deal.

I like BillMorrow's point:

"it would take a whole lot of easy cash to make me dishonest".

Yes, I do think honesty has a price. BillMorow has mentioned that his honesty worths about 1B $. I do not want to claim that my honesty also worths 1B but it is certainly far more than $600 which Mr Orevin presumably sold his Honesty for. I believe a majority of the forum members are also like me.

Is there any Chicago members that help our poor HarryC? Like physically drive to the delivery address?

#35 Post by **Harryc** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:19 am

Temetka wrote:I just read both pages of this thread and I find myself saddened by what I have read.
If I had a spare t4x laying around it would be in harryc's hands right now.

Thanks for the sentiment and the offer, it is appreciated.

#36 Post by **Harryc** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:21 am

ajkula66 wrote: f) HarryC, I don't know you-or Orevin-from Adam. I do hope that you get to see your money. And if you don't, I hope that you find it in your heart not to forgive, but to say to yourself that he needed it more than you...

Could be, lets hope that it went to some good. Thanks.

#37 Post by **carbon_unit** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:21 am

Also if he was an illegal alien he could have been deported/detained on a moments notice with no communication.

asiafish · #38 Post by **asiafish** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:24 am

bigtiger wrote:Kyocera got a point. Orevin might have some problem now which prevents him from fulfilling the deal.

I like BillMorrow's point:
"it would take a whole lot of easy cash to make me dishonest".
Yes, I do think honesty has a price. BillMorow has mentioned that his honesty worths about 1B $. I do not want to claim that my honesty also worths 1B but it is certainly far more than $600 which Mr Orevin presumably sold his Honesty for. I believe a majority of the forum members are also like that.

Is there any Chicago members that help our poor HarryC? Like physically drive to the delivery address?

Reminds me of a story I heard about Abe Lincoln. President Lincoln was sitting in his office when a railroad executive came to see him. The executive kept offering Lincoln ever-increasing amounts of money to get an exclusive contract for building America's railroads. When the man reached a million dollars (a lot of money in the 1860s) Lincoln told the man to leave or be arrested.

After the man left, Lincoln's secretary asked him why he threw the man out, to which Lincoln replied "He was getting too close to my price".

#39 Post by **dorronto** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

Very good Andrew.................................

I guess we all have our price...............

Ron

asiafish · #40 Post by **asiafish** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:57 am

I know I sure do, but its far higher than will ever tempt me on this forum (unless we start dealing in megabuck real estate).

#41 Post by **Harryc** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:15 pm

Well, since it's been 2 weeks and no word from Orevin, and since a couple of folks asked for it, here is a transcript of the original transaction.

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Harryc wrote:
Hi,
I have a T21 in excellent condition. What would you be willing to do for a trade for your T41p?

Product: ThinkPad T21 2647-8AU

Original description: PIII 800MHz (256KB), 128MB RAM, 20.0GB HDD, 14.1 TFT 1024x768, 8x-2.3x DVD, Intel Combo (modem/ethernet), TV out, Li-Ion Batt, W2000

Upgrades - IBM battery (brand new), 1GHZ PIII (brand new), 512MB RAM (2x256, brand new), 40GB Hard drive (brand new)

Comes with a CD/RW and DVD drive (seperate Ultrabay 2000 drives), floppy drive, nice port replicator, AC power adapter. I do not have the product recovery CD's, and the hard drive would arrive blank.

I bought the base off of EBay some time ago, and it does not have a serial number on it, although the model is there and is also in BIOS. Overall I'd give it a 9 out of 10. For it's age it's a 9.5. No missing pixels, screen is nice and bright, keyboard keys look brand new, no obvious scratches or marks on the case. If you are interested I can email pics.

Harry

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Hi Harry,

Sounds like a nice machine. How much life is left in the original battery? I would be interested in 1GHz CPU, the extra memory and the CDRW drive. How does $250 sound for this combination? Please send me a link to the pictures or send them to my email kisedy@inbox.com.

Thanks,
-Ed-

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Harryc wrote:
Ed,
Thanks for the reply and the offer. I think I am going to pass. Good luck with your T41p, it looks like a sweet machine.
Harry
--

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Harry,

What's your asking price for your T21 without upgrades? I'm sure we can work something out.

-Ed-

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Harryc wrote:
Ed, here's what I will do. You take my machine, including all of the upgrades I mentioned, plus I will throw in (2) old IBM batteries, only one of which holds any kind of charge (I can measure the time later, but it is not a lot). Maybe they can get refillled, but I don't know anything about that process. I will ship you that package plus a money order or check for $350. for your machine. Let me know and If you're interested I will get pictures up this afternoon for you to take a look at.
Harry

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Sounds like a decent deal, although the T21 would be a little overpowered for Wink
Send the pics and when I like what I see, we'll have a deal. I won't need the old batteries or the floppy drive, saves you some money on shipping. What about the wireless card you have in your signature, would it be included?

Thanks,
-Ed-

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Harryc wrote:
Sure, I'll throw in the Orinoco Card (it's a very nice wifi card by the way, considered to be one of the best ever). The only thing is that it is 801.11b (11Mbps) only, so as long as you aware of that, we're good...

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11Mbps is good enough. I will connect this laptop to my stereo and TV. This way I can listen to web radio in a good quality and watch movies on the "big" screen. Smile

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Harryc wrote:
Ed,
I have uploaded the pics to my webspace. If you have any problem getting to these images let me know.
Harry
...

http://mysite.verizon.net/hjc56/gifs/top.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/hjc56/gifs/bottom.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/hjc56/gifs/side.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/hjc56/gifs/side2.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/hjc56/gifs/screen.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/hjc56/gifs/keyboard.jpg

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I had no problem watching the pics, but getting back to the forum...

This is a very nice and clean machine, I like it and I take it!
To summarize it: You send the T21 with upgrades (but no old batteries, please) and a MO for $350? If you send it via USPS, I can hand over my package to my postman when he delivers your package. Here is my address:

Edward J Kiszenia
7253 S Christiana Ave.
Chicago, IL 60629

Is it Linux you are running on it or XP with a special theme? What is the name of the sidebar, with all the system stats?

Thanks for the pics,
-Ed-

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Ed,
I am running OpenSuSE Linux 10.2 on that machine. The sidebar with the system stats is called gkrellm. I am a forum moderator and Linux is a side hobby of mine. Great, so it sounds like we have a deal. I need a day to get the package ready. By Friday PM it will be on the way to you. I will use USPS so it is convenient for you. Thanks for the deal.
Harry
--

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Thanks Harry, I'm looking forward to it.

Have a nice evening,
-Ed-

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Harryc wrote:
Ed,
Your package has shipped today via USPS priority mail with delivery confirmation. The delivery tracking number is xxxxx. Priority mail to Chicago takes two business days, so look for it to arrive on Tuesday or so. The money order is in a envelope inside the box. It should arrive in excellent condition. I took great pains to pack everything very carefully. I am looking forward to receiving the Thinkpad T41P.
Harry
--

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Harry,

Thanks for the information.
What is your address? I would like to have the package ready when the postman shows up.

Thanks and have a nice weekend,
-Ed-

That's the last I heard from 'Ed'.

SaberX · #42 Post by **SaberX** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:51 pm

I just have to say that i have been reading your post from the first day you put it up.I just cant belive someone would do this.
I'm verry sorry to here of this whole thing HarryC.
Even if this guy ended up in the hospital , he knows he had your T21 with the money order showing up and someone must have recived it that he knoes.He could easy get someone to pack up the T41P and send to to you.So i dont think that "IF" he ended up in the hospital is a good excuse.Unless he's in a Coma or something.
Someone else said a good idea.If there is someone in the Chicago area , pay them to make a visit to his address.
Did you contact the Chicago PD about it.I'm from Canada and dont know a wole lot how things go on down there , but maybe they can send a car out to his address.
Maybe find out what newspapers are out in his area and post a few add's looking for him or offer a reword if someone knowes that person and can find him.

Maybe you can change the street adress # my one # and sent a letter to that home owner asking if thay know the person.Offer them some cash to fine him.

Please let us know what you come up with.
Bill Wheeler

AllTPedOut · #43 Post by **AllTPedOut** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:32 pm

Harry,
Would any of this help?
Name/AKAs
1. KISZENIA, EDWARD JOHN (Age 47)

Associated names:
KISZENIA, ED

Possible Employment / Business Associations:
ALL TRAVEL ENTERPRISES
IMPACT CONSULTING SERVICES
SINGLES UNLIMITED Groceries, General Line

City, State
SALT LAKE CITY, UT
CHICAGO, IL
SAN DIEGO, CA
HIGHLAND, IN
HOLLADAY, UT

Possible Relatives:
KISZENIA, JOHN
KISZENIAL, EDWARD
KISZENIA, JOHN
KISZENIA, NORINA J (Age 47)

AllTPedOut · #44 Post by **AllTPedOut** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:38 pm

Not sure if this is the same person:
Edward Kiszenia
(773) 279-8070 | 2939 W Belmont Ave Chicago, IL 60618

#45 Post by **Harryc** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:44 pm

AllTPedOut -

SALT LAKE CITY, UT
CHICAGO, IL
SAN DIEGO, CA
HIGHLAND, IN
HOLLADAY, UT

This list is interesting and potentially helpful. It almost matches an IP address list (doing WHOIS look-ups) that I got from the Admins here. Business travel? What is the source of this information? If you can't tell me here, please PM me. Thanks.

#46 Post by **Kyocera** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:46 pm

Ed,
I am running OpenSuSE Linux 10.2 on that machine. The sidebar with the system stats is called gkrellm. I am a forum moderator and Linux is a side hobby of mine. Great, so it sounds like we have a deal. I need a day to get the package ready. By Friday PM it will be on the way to you. I will use USPS so it is convenient for you. Thanks for the deal.
Harry
--

I wonder which forum he is a moderator on?

#47 Post by **Harryc** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:47 pm

Kyocera wrote:
Ed,
I am running OpenSuSE Linux 10.2 on that machine. The sidebar with the system stats is called gkrellm. I am a forum moderator and Linux is a side hobby of mine. Great, so it sounds like we have a deal. I need a day to get the package ready. By Friday PM it will be on the way to you. I will use USPS so it is convenient for you. Thanks for the deal.
Harry
--
I wonder which forum he is a moderator on?

That would be me

. Visit us anytime - http://www.suseforums.net.

#48 Post by **Kyocera** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:51 pm

Oh sorry HarryC I thought it was Oriven saying "he" was a member.

#49 Post by **Harryc** » Thu May 31, 2007 4:37 pm

SaberX wrote: Please let us know what you come up with.
Bill Wheeler

Bill, thanks for the ideas. Currently I am building a case with the US Postal Inspector. I have been looking into contacting the Chicago Police, but have no idea how to file a police report remotely. So if anyone knows how to do that, please let me know.

Temetka · #50 Post by **Temetka** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:33 am

Harryc wrote:
Kyocera wrote:I wonder which forum he is a moderator on?
That would be me . Visit us anytime - http://www.suseforums.net.

Awesome!

SuSE has always been my favorite distro. I just signed up as a member at the forums there. I never would have know about that forum had you not mentioned that you are a mod there.

Melvyn · #51 Post by **Melvyn** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:40 am

I'm sorry for your case Harry.

I can say two or three things maybe offtopic regarding this:

Regarding to transactions in the forum:
- As far as this is not a marketplace like ebay, without guarantee, why don't keep a record of sellers, with real names, address and so on? Buy and sell here have a lot of activities. Who the hell is somebody called "orevin"? Or Melvyn? or Whatever? Something can be made to give some guarantee. As asking for an ID and confirmed address or something so. Not strictly by the forum. It can be done by the buyer. Essentially: Who are you selling me this?

Regarding to Mr. Orevin's vanised case:
- A lot of things can be happen. Here a personal History:
I'm 27 years old (28 next week). By 2003 I was making money for several ways, working in consulting. On august 22, 2003 I was attending a conference at Verizon here. I was working at a firm doing subcontracts of them. A small firm with another 3 members at IT staff, a secretary and an administrator. We have a lot of customer. I suffered a heart attack that day, while dining with another participants. The another 2 members of my firm staff were out of the country. My attending agenda was very busy.

What do you thing that our customers were thinking? It was a complex matter.

My agenda for that week was very busy attending Verizon's corporate customers.

Now, reading this, I realize that maybe people were thinking I was cheater or something so, while I was at the hospital. More than that: Thinking "Melvyn is mad and liar" because who believe a guy of 23 having a heart attack?

Maybe this is not the case. Maybe this is why I would recommend to wait until we know something about Orevin.

Maybe he deserves prission. Maybe he deserves "not guilty until proven".

Just my 2 cents.

_______
P.D.: Excuse me for this off-topic and very extended reply.[/list]

khoan · #52 Post by **khoan** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:21 am

Hi HarryC,

I'm new here, so you probably don't know much about me yet. I have read this thread from start to end. And I'm very sorry about the unasked for ordeal you've been put through.

Just a suggestion about dealings on here. If you feel unsafe, both parties could deposit some cash into a pot, Bill if you don't mind keeping it safe for some nominal fee. When goods are exchanged, and both parties are happy, Bill can return the cash in pot to both parties.

I'm sorry if what I'm describing here is escrow.

Once again sorry HarryC about your situation mate.

Khoan.

#53 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:44 am

khoan wrote: ... what I'm describing here is escrow.

Indeed it is. If I had known that Bill offered it before hand I might have paid the $50 or whatever to use it. The buyer and seller should split this fee evenly in my opinion, but the amount has to justify it. I believe someone said to use it for $300 or higher transactions. Thanks for the reply.

#54 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:48 am

Melvyn wrote: I can say two or three things maybe offtopic regarding this:

Online identity is a fragile thing. Yes you give the buyer/seller your real name and address (hopefully), but how much more information could/should you give and how? It's a problem. I am sorry to hear of your heart attack at such a young age. As I said in the original post, 'S' happens in life and I am sure your customers understood. I would feel pretty bad if 'Orevin' was sick, dying or dead. The fact that he/she logged on last Saturday to check out the damage tells me otherwise.

#55 Post by **BillMorrow** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:00 am

using google maps:

7253 S Christiana Ave.
Chicago, IL 60629

shows what looks like a small single family home on a street loaded with the same..
with detached garage behind on an alleyway..

it is an old trick to run a reverse telephone directory lookup for neghibors, then calling the neghibor for info on the debtor..
this is a good tactic..
you can learn a lot..
expecially if the guy actually lives there..

GOOGLE is your friend..
i have an image of his house, his property assessment and a map..
i will email them..

you can search on cook county clerk of court and get a lot of telephone numbers..
which is a good place to start a search for civil and criminal court records..

#56 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:50 am

Bill, thanks for the information - nice neighborhood

http://www.chicagocrime.org/streets/chr ... ave/7200s/

cmarti · #57 Post by **cmarti** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:00 am

Kyocera wrote:If no one has heard from Orevin, you know it is possible he's in the hospital, or worse, dead, it could happen to any one of us at any moment in time.

Kyocera,

You are right!

But Does anyone know if he actualy cash the money order?

#58 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:09 am

cmarti wrote:
Kyocera wrote:If no one has heard from Orevin, you know it is possible he's in the hospital, or worse, dead, it could happen to any one of us at any moment in time.
But Does anyone know if he actualy cash the money order?

I'm working on it. You guys will be the first to know

.

bigtiger · #59 Post by **bigtiger** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:59 pm

Wow, over 10 Thousand posts. Nice Job being a moderator, HarryC. I will register with your forum too.

This does not look like a classic Nigerian spam. I hope everything will work out OK.

Like BillMorrow Said, few cold calls with the "nice" neighborhood might help. At least you could know if Oregin actually lives there.

Temetka · #60 Post by **Temetka** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:31 am

If this only would have happened in southern california. I would have driven by and hopefully have a little chat with him.I tend to think of the forums that I am a member of as communities and I also tend to think of my fellow forum members as neighbors. It really ticks me off when stuff like this happens. What ticks me off even more is that other than offering condolences as hope for resolution, I am basically powerless to offer any help.

Please Orevin if you are reading this, do the right thing end either ship the T4x or return the T21 and the money. Man up, you will fell better about it.

Problem getting user Orevin to complete deal

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