Toughbook Y7/Y5 versus T6x

[sb37]

I've had a T60p for a few months and haven't been particularly happy with it --- the size, weight, battery life and build aren't up to the standards of my t40 and service has been less than stellar. I'm thinking of switching over to the toughbook line, although I haven't seen one in person ever.

Has anyone on this forum been able to compare the t6x to the toughbook Y series in person. The Y7s seem pretty optimal - Santa Rosa chips, (up to) 2GB of RAM, and the integrated intel x3100 graphics card that is supposedly pretty good. Plus these things are supposedly 3.3 lbs and go for up to 8 hours on a charge of a battery that doesn't stick out. The only bad part is I need to get it imported from Japan by Dynamism, which results in a bit of a markup. In any case, anyone have both of these machines and care to comment?

[pianowizard]

The Panasonic Y series has been on my wish list for a long time. First it was the Y4 and then the Y5. I didn't know that the Y7 is now available in Japan and through Dynamism, so thanks for the tip. For mobile users, the specs are obviously much nicer than the T-series Thinkpads. Gator has seen a Y5 in person and was very impressed. Another forum member actually bought several but I don't remember his user name. While I haven't seen a Y-series Toughbook in person, I have used Japanese/English keyboards and many keys are placed differently than U.S. keyboards. So, I would rather get a Y5 with an English-only keyboard. Slower but still quite powerful, and I won't have to waste time finding where the keys I need are.

[sb37]

here are links to photos of the keyboards available:

http://www.dynamism.com/images/gallery/imgy4_6.jpg

i suppose i'm a bit concerned about them, but the truth is that i use a non-standard external keyboard a lot of the time (happy hacking keyboard) and it only took a few days to become completely adjusted.

as for the y5 vs. y7 debate, i think that if i plan on using vista at any point while i own the machine, the y7 would be a good idea - it has a much faster chip that is dual core, can handle up to 2gb of ram (y5 is 1.5), has an 160gb hdd, and has a much better graphics card (the x3100) that *might* be directx10 compatible if intel gets around to releasing a driver; in any case, it's the same graphics the t61 has in its integrated version. the y7 also has gigabit ethernet and n-wireless. it also has a dvd burner, whereas the us y5 only burns cds.

in any case, i guess i'll make my decision after i see the specs of the t61p. however, the y7 is looking very appealing to me. it seems that it's the first time a y-series toughbook can be seen as a desktop replacement rather than complement. and the 3.3 pounds and bulletproof construction are very appealing, seeing as i do a lot of traveling and moving of the machine.

[gator]

I saw a Y5 in campus, and I liked it a LOT. It is really sturdy and the build quality is as good as thinkpads, if not better. It is very light too, and the screen quality (SXGA+) is fantastic.

Y7 is kind of expensive at this time, Y5 is a great choice. It still has a Core Duo and it is best value for money.

[pianowizard]

it seems that it's the first time a y-series toughbook can be seen as a desktop replacement rather than complement.

IMO, the Y5 was already good enough as a desktop replacement. The Y2 and Y4 used 1.8" HDDs, so they were crippled just like the X40 and X41 Thinkpads, but beginning with the Y5, the Y-series has been using standard 2.5" HDDs. A Y5 with 1.5GB RAM and a 7200rpm HDD should be powerful enough for 99% of all applications, including Vista.

I am rereading your original post. Since weight is one of the major reasons you don't like the T60p, the T61/61p would be worse. It's heavier than the T60/60p because of the silly rollcage for the display lid. To keep the laptop light light, you need to get the 4-cell battery, which gives you even less battery life than your T60p, another thing that you complained about the T60p. The Y5 or Y7 is the way to go.

[sb37]

hmm the price of the y7 should be around $3600 with the 2gb ram, which is about the same as the price of the t60p i'll be returning. Of course, it's a fair amount slower and has a smaller screen. Has anyone tried these low voltage processors? What kind of speed difference can I expect between a 1.4Ghz low-voltage Santa Rosa (L7300) and the 2.33ghz core 2 duo (Merom) T7600? I'll be losing a gig of memory too. hoping to run vista, and most commonly office 2007, zend php environment, and a bit of photoshop.

Can you comment more on the screen, gator? Is it brighter than the 14.1" t60s? how is it better overall? i believe the screen is panasonic-produced, and they tend to produce good lcds, in their tvs at least.

[gator]

I don't have a 14" T60 to compare the screen (I own a 15" T60), but I'll definitely say that the LCD on the machine I saw was excellent - evenly lit, and good colors. Even the vertical viewing angles were good (not as much as flexview obviously). The best part about the machine was the really solid build quality and the weight ... I haven't seen many laptops outperforming thinkpads in both these categories combined except the Y5.

[tomh009]

it seems that it's the first time a y-series toughbook can be seen as a desktop replacement rather than complement.

IMO, the Y5 was already good enough as a desktop replacement. The Y2 and Y4 used 1.8" HDDs, so they were crippled just like the X40 and X41 Thinkpads, but beginning with the Y5, the Y-series has been using standard 2.5" HDDs. A Y5 with 1.5GB RAM and a 7200rpm HDD should be powerful enough for 99% of all applications, including Vista.

So this may be a bit off topic, but if we use the above criteria, an X60 would qualify as a desktop replacement as well. (An X31 qualifies for me, but then I'm not typical ...) If we include the screen resolution as a criterion, then an X60 tablet with SXGA+ would still qualify.

In my view, in spite of the larger display, the Panasonic Y series is really competing with the ThinkPad X series, not the T series.

[pianowizard]

So this may be a bit off topic, but if we use the above criteria, an X60 would qualify as a desktop replacement as well......If we include the screen resolution as a criterion, then an X60 tablet with SXGA+ would still qualify.

No, Tom. The Panasonic Y series has a bigger screen AND a built-in optical drive. The OP was basically saying that despite these desktop-replacement features, the Y5 and older models were not good enough as desktop replacements because they were not powerful enough. In response to that, I commented that the Y5 should offer enough power for most applications. My comment didn't mention the big screen and built-in optical drive simply because they had already been mentioned by the OP.

The X-series doesn't have a big screen or a built-in optical drive, two essential components of a desktop-replacement laptop.

[furrycute]

The only Toughbook that is worth the asking price is the military grade model that is splashproof. The sides of that model are encased in rubber, so water wont get inside the computer.

Aside from that model, I don't see the point of paying over $3,000 for a consumer grade Toughbook using yesterday's technology. The consumer grade Toughbooks such as the Y5 are not splashproof. Aside from the name Toughbook, the Y5 shares nothing in common with the military grade Toughbook. The Y5 has no advantages over the T series Thinkpads.


Let's do a comparison here:
1) Both the Y5 and the T60/T61 have magnesium enclosing, Y5 on the outside, and T60/T61 on the inside
2) Both the Y5 and the T60/T61 will protect the hard drive by stopping the drive head when excessive motion is detected
3) For ~$3,000, you get a Y5 with Core Duo 1.66 GHz CPU, 60GB hard drive, max of 1GB of RAM, and integrated graphics
4) For ~$3,000 you can get a T61 with top of the line specs, Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz CPU, 160GB hard drive, max of 4GB of RAM, and discrete graphics
5) Y5 only has a 14inch screen, T61/T60 can be configured with either a 14inch or 15inch screen.



Given a choice, I would go with a T60/T61 over a Y5 anytime, day or night.

[pianowizard]

Given a choice, I would go with a T60/T61 over a Y5 anytime, day or night.

If money wasn't an issue, I would go with a Y5 over the most loaded T-series anytime, day or night, for just one reason: weight. The Y5 and Y7 are only 3.3 to 3.4 lbs. The T-series range from 5.2 to 6.2 lbs. I also would go with a Y5 over any of the X-series Thinkpads. The X-series models that are lighter than the Y5 all have XGA which seriously reduces productivity, whereas the SXGA+ tablets start at 3.8 lbs, heavier than the Y5 even though they lack internal optical drives. The only reason I have owned so many T- and X-series Thinkpads but not a single Y-series Toughbook is money. The Y-series is such a perfect balance between weight and performance. I was hoping that Lenovo would try to make the T61 more like the Y-series, but instead they made it even heavier than the T60 by introducing the absolutely unnecessary display rollcage.

[furrycute]

I wouldn't the LCD roll cage on the T61 unnecessary. If you happen to drop your T61 and it lands on the LCD side, the LCD, reinforced with the internal roll cage, would have a better chance of surviving the drop.

Plus, in terms of wifi reception, the external magnesium alloy casing on the Y5 seriously impedes wifi reception. T61 in having an internal magnesium alloy roll cage has far better wifi reception.


The price you pay for one Y5 can buy you two T61's.

[pianowizard]

The price you pay for one Y5 can buy you two T61's.

Right, but unfortunately, I absolutely refuse to carry any laptop weighing over 4.15 lbs (the weight of the Dell Inspiron 700m that I used to have) for ten minutes or longer. If I get a Y5, it's something that I can use whereever I go. But when I have a T61, I can use it only at home.

[XIII]

I have looked at the Y5 before and it is really outstanding. The body is very thin and well-built. The CD/DVD drive placement is very innovative and allow easy access. Now as I find out the weight only 3.7 lb, it is more intriguing to buy one.
It is very well worth the price and I am willing to pay that much (well, if I have the money of course). But I agree that comparing T61 with Y5 is like comparing an elephant to an armored peacock.

[pianowizard]

Now as I find out the weight only 3.7 lb.

That's a widely reported weight and I think it was just a typo that Panasonic made on their web site, and many other web sites subsequently propagated it. Panasonic changed it to 3.4 lbs not long ago. Dynamism.com has always stated the weight of the Y series as 3.3 lb. Perhaps it's actually somewhere in between, with Dynamism rounding it down and Panasonic rounding it up.

Wow, my 3,400th post!

[furrycute]

I absolutely refuse to carry any laptop weighing over 4.15 lbs

I don't really know how to respond to this, except by stating that I, of average build, have absolutely no problems carrying around an extra pound of weight.

http://tinyurl.com/22lax9
And per Panasonic, the battery on the Y5 lasts up to 6 hours (theoretical limit), about the same as that for a T61/T60 (theoretical limit).

[sb37]

The theoretical capacity on the y7 is 8 hours with eco mode off. So I guess around 6 can be expected. There's also an eco mode which slows/dims things, and you can turn off the drive and wifi through hardware switches.

[gator]

The Panasonic Y5 keyboard is completely splash proof (unlike the partial water protection in thinkpads). Look at the review here:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/notebooks ... k-CF-Y5/p1
See the last pic in page 2.

I have seen one of these and it is very light compared to a 14" T series. The machine is really really solid, you won't believe it until you see one in person.

This is one of the best machines in the market right now, and if I had the money, I'll take it anyday over a 14" thinkpad.

[sb37]

is there any insight into its speed? how big a difference will i notice transitition from a 2.33 ghz C2D (T7600) to the low voltage 1.4Ghz Santa Rosa (L7300) and downgrading 3gb to 2gb of RAM.

[gator]

is there any insight into its speed? how big a difference will i notice transitition from a 2.33 ghz C2D (T7600) to the low voltage 1.4Ghz Santa Rosa (L7300) and downgrading 3gb to 2gb of RAM.

hmm, with the LV processor, you'll notice quite a bit of difference. If you get a Y5 with core duo, there will not be any discernible difference for regular use.

[pianowizard]

I have seen one of these and it is very light compared to a 14" T series. The machine is really really solid, you won't believe it until you see one in person.

Okay, you keep saying "seeing" one but now it sounds like you've played with one. How's the keyboard? How warm did the palmrest and the bottom of the machine get? Did you use WiFi and was it pretty good?

[sb37]

the y5 uses an LV chip too, the L2400. It's a core duo running at 1.83 ghz, which I assume is a slower chip than the L7300 in the Y7, which runs at 1.4ghz and is a core 2 duo. the biggest difference is gonna be the graphics card on the y5 vs y7, the latter having the new x3100 which is good with vista aero.

[sb37]

also the y7 has 4mb cache versus y5's 2mb cache

[gator]

Okay, you keep saying "seeing" one but now it sounds like you've played with one. How's the keyboard? How warm did the palmrest and the bottom of the machine get? Did you use WiFi and was it pretty good?

PW, I din't play with the machine as such, just used it for about 15-20 mins ... keyboard is not as good as on thinkpads (which is not big surprise). I did not like the placement of the pg up/pg down and related keys. Wifi seemed good, nothing seemed to be wrong with it. But I must say that I have seen better with Atheros in my thinkpad.

In the brief period of time I used the laptop, the machine did not seem to run hot. There was no discernible heat at the bottom of the laptop or the palmrest, but I cannot confirm this since I used the machine from a cold boot.

[XIII]

Here is a detailed review for anyone interested in Y5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF_H6cHVmXg
And my favorite: Monkey playing with the Y5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CkEZbwpMsI
Just imagine what would happen if that is a thinkpad instead.
Enjoy,

[furrycute]

Notice the monkey only spilled water around the touchpad area, away from any of the open ports.

I would think a T61/T60 would stand up rather well to all that monkeying around, especially now that the LCD panel on the T61 is reinforced with an internal Mangesium alloy roll cage.

[furrycute]

One tough Thinkpad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ENQ1dUavI8

[pianowizard]

I would think a T61/T60 would stand up rather well to all that monkeying around

Because it would be too heavy for the monkey to lift? LOL!

[sb37]

The y7 has been ordered from dynamism. I got some custom options so they predict 2-3 week wait time. As soon as I get it, I'll do a quick review. It wasn't cheap, but came out a little cheaper than the t60p that I'm returning.

[gator]

Please do post some pics and a review.