Do I need a tablet and if so do I want multi-touch?

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my-cool · #1 Post by **my-cool** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:02 pm

I am ready to purchase an x61 series notebook and wonder if I should buy the tablet version.

I really want a sub-notebook and price isn't an issue. I just want a very small computer that is easy to pickup with one hand (this is my sub-notebook test). I don't really have a dire need for a tabletpc but if any of you have suggestions as to the contrary please let me know.

The only things that I seem to be giving up by going to a tablet are the ThinkLight and a few ounces in size and slight difference in physical size.

If any of ya'll have experience using the tablet vs. the non-tablet version of the x series please let me know your opinions...I would like to order this as soon as possible.

If I choose the tablet is multi-touch useful?

If I don't choose a tablet is the size difference between the x61s and the x61 substantial enough to justify the loss of horsepower?

I know that their are a ton of questions here and I really appreciate any and all help.

Thank you all so much in advance.

<><
michael

yggdrasil · #2 Post by **yggdrasil** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:08 pm

If you think you'll use the tablet features go with the tablet. Also, the tablet is the only one that comes with the SXGA+ screen.

Some people like the touch option but it's not as good as it could be. I heard you need to press fairly hard to get it to register a click. Your screen will require cleaning more often due to the oily fingerprints. Also if you want the touch option you're limited to the XGA 1024x768 which won't give you much screen real-estate.

Personally I ordered the SXGA+ X61 Tablet. I'm entering undergrad engineering in the fall and I'd like to take advantage of electronic notetaking (do a google search for OneNote 2007 to see the possibilities. Apart from sketching / art software, this is probably the killer app for tablet PCs). The X61 Tablet can easily be used like a regular notebook too without compromise (except for the higher price tag).

proaudioguy · #3 Post by **proaudioguy** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:41 pm

For web surfing the Multitouch screen is really cool. Also that screen can be seen in SUNLIGHT.

You can use it in normal mode with the keyboard and use your finger to click all the links etc. This is very intuitive.

MeaninglessNick · #4 Post by **MeaninglessNick** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:57 pm

You mention a weight difference of "a few ounces". To put this in perspective, the weight difference between an x61 tablet and x61s with the same 8 cell battery is 0.4 kilos (0.88 lbs). This is almost the same as a second 8 cell battery (0.475 kilos, 1.05 lbs).

pianowizard · #5 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:13 pm

MeaninglessNick wrote:weight difference between an x61 tablet and x61s with the same 8 cell battery is 0.4 kilos (0.88 lbs). This is almost the same as a second 8 cell battery (0.475 kilos, 1.05 lbs).

I am glad someone else on this forum is also meticulous about weight like me. 0.88 lbs is a huge difference indeed, and with the 8-cell battery the X61 tablet is a whopping 4.25 lbs. So my-cool, because you said you"really want a sub-notebook", make sure you get a 4-cell battery for the tablet. It's still 3.77 lbs though, making it the heaviest "ultraportable" Thinkpad ever made. But the advantage over the non-tablet X60 or X60s is that you have the SXGA+ option, which is much more useful than XGA.

yggdrasil · #6 Post by **yggdrasil** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:24 pm

The convenience of having double the battery life far outweighs an extra 0.5 lbs for the 8-cell battery. The long battery life is the best feature of the X series thinkpads apart from the light weight. Unless you're using it on your desk all the time you will be kicking yourself if you don't order the 8-cell. If you ARE using it at your desk all the time, why not order a faster, bigger & cheaper T61 instead?

my-cool · #7 Post by **my-cool** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:50 pm

MeaninglessNick wrote:You mention a weight difference of "a few ounces". To put this in perspective, the weight difference between an x61 tablet and x61s with the same 8 cell battery is 0.4 kilos (0.88 lbs). This is almost the same as a second 8 cell battery (0.475 kilos, 1.05 lbs).

Wow...I didn't look at it this way. that is a pretty big difference.

<><
michael

my-cool · #8 Post by **my-cool** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:05 pm

One of the things that is weighing heavily on me is the speed difference between the x61 and the x61t.

I want a faster notebook than I currently have...I don't want to spend 3k dollars and get a notebook that is a bit smaller and possible lets me write on the screen BUT ISN'T FASTER than what I currently use.

I am replacing a Dell Inspiron 600m with the following specs:
14.1" screen running sxga+ (1400 x 1050)
1.6ghz Pentium M processor
2gb of RAM
100gb 7200 rpm hard drive (thanks newegg.com)

I know that the x61t has a limit of 1.6ghz to order right now and the x61 will let me go with a 2ghz processor. I just want to know that what I am buying will be faster. I can't seem to find any benchmark comparisons between the pentium-m 1.6ghz and the Core-2-Duo 1.6ghz.

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you <><,
michael

fuscob · #9 Post by **fuscob** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:25 pm

my-cool wrote:I know that the x61t has a limit of 1.6ghz to order right now and the x61 will let me go with a 2ghz processor. I just want to know that what I am buying will be faster. I can't seem to find any benchmark comparisons between the pentium-m 1.6ghz and the Core-2-Duo 1.6ghz.

The Core 2 will be significantly faster than your P-M. It is a better processor architecture and has two cores versus one in the Pentium M (not sure if you're familiar with dual-core technology; it's essentially two separate processors on one physical chip).

SFWrtr · #10 Post by **SFWrtr** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:05 am

Long post, sorry...

I have an DELL Inspiron 8500 2.4.ghz Pentium 4M with 2GB RAM and a 100GB 7200RPM HDD. I've checked the benchmarks and a X60T would be 240% faster than my DELL. My X61T will probably beat that by a little bit. The 8500 has a 15.4 wide screen and a native res of 1920x1200. With both batteries installed (i.e., portable), it weighs over 8 pounds and runs about 3-4 hours. Add to the notebook case the DVD burner, the AC brick, you can do weight lifting exercises with it. Nice, but because I do a lot of traveling, some of it overseas, it is really too much. I've lugged it to Turkey and Chile. Now I'm getting ready for Japan. With the DELL service contract expiring (I've had 10+ onsite repairs), I realized it was time for a change.

So that said, I did a lot of thinking and finally went for a tablet. Here's why... Lenovo, Dell, HP, all you manufacturers, pay attention - I am one of Bill Gates' cross-over tablet users, and I spent over $3000 to get there.

I primarily use a notebook machine for programming (80%). Secondarily for photography and writing (~15%). I use Photoshop a lot and have a Wacom tablet that I use when doing retouching.

It occurred to me, why not get the Wacom tablet built into the screen? One less piece of equipment. I could get a touch screen desk monitor, or I could get a tablet....

Okay, then there is this being able to just jot down notes. That does require a tablet. In seeing if I would get better about notes, I've begun using OneNote and have become an avid fan. Right, I'm keyboarding the notes mostly, but I like it. And I feel like my memory is getting better instead of worse because now I write it down when I think it. Premature senior moments are a thing of the past.

With the fingerprint reader and improved resume from standby speed, I see swiping my finger and jotting notes immediately. No opening the lid, no typing a password. How do you spell convenient? T-h-i-n-k-p-a-d T-a-b-l-e-t.

Of course, to make note taking work, I'll have to be willing to take the machine with me everywhere. At 3.7 pounds vs. 8 pounds - I think this might be doable. A X61 in a tablet sleeve looks very attractive indeed. (I'm going to see about getting the 4-cell battery to lighten the load for short days.)

But there's more! Since tablet PCs are typically used in portrait mode, I decided to rotate my work monitor to portrait mode to see how I would take to that. Gee wiz, why didn't I do that before? Reading web sites, technical manuals, even manuscripts is just like reading paper. (Why we don't see regular portrait mode notebooks yet, I don't know. Think of a 14 or 15 inch notebook that opens on the short edge... but I digress).

But, there's more! With a touch screen (read multi-touch), you do not have to use the pen. If you think about how you use the mouse to do things that don't involve writing (like Photoshop or web browsing), you'll realize it's just point, click, drag. Have you ever discovered your keyboard was detached from your computer after minutes and minutes of computer use? I have. And to make it even more convenient, the X61t comes with an ESCAPE key to use in tablet mode. With a multi-touch tablet, you just bring up your favorite reading material, leave the pen in it's garage, and surf with your finger to your heart's content. Kind of like the Sunday paper without all the ink on your hands. How cool is that? (I already know I like surfing with my Wacom tablet pen, so surfing directly with a finger should be much better, and I can sit in an easy chair doing it.)

But, there's... (okay, I won't say it. ) Because I can work remotely, there are times where I am a passenger in a car and trying desperately to work. Sunlight can wash out even the brightest LCD. The Thinkpad tablet is one of the few brands that offers the multi-view (and now Superview). This means I'll be able to work in bright outdoor light, perhaps even direct sun. I have a terrace at home, but I cannot work outside because the the glare. Oh, yes, I am looking forward to this tablet feature setting me free...

And speaking of being set free... Are you one of those people, like me, that is always Googling definitions or spellings? I broke down and purchased a Verizon cellular built-in card. The sales rep assures me it is Rev A. Now, not only do I get to work in the car, I can still use Google. And I don't have to mess with a PC card. I'm connected any time. Good feature Lenovo (okay DELL has it, too, but let's not quibble.)

Back to working remotely. Have you ever worked on a plane with a conventional notebook. Now think of using a tablet instead. Nice visual, esp. in economy class, eh?

Oh, yeah, don't forget the battery life on these little beauties. It may be reduced slightly by Vista, but it sure beats just about anything else on the market. Bet you can fly from LA to New York and still use the tablet in the taxi.

Writing recognition is yet another feature that, esp. with Vista, is much improved. (It can reputably decipher even poor handwriting with training.) This means that when I'm at meetings, seminars, or conventions, I can just jot notes as if I have paper in front of me. Better than Graphitti on a Palm or Pocket PC because you don't have to always be looking at the device. And there's no key clicks to distract those sitting next to you. After recognizing the ink (I've seen the demo for OneNote), I've got milk (oops, make that text).

Oh, but people say that getting the multitouch/multiview screen locks you into 1024x768. That's pretty small? Well, actually, no. Coming from 1920 x1200 15.4 inch screen, the text is a bit bigger. My aging eyes are going to be happy. As for lack of screen real estate, remember, I will use my laptop 80% of the time doing programming. At those times, I'll also have a 24 inch secondary monitor on my desk with 1200x1920 resolution. Still, I think you'll be surprised what you can fit in a 1024x768 area, esp. with Clear Type technology turned on.

I like the idea of a tablet. I like the versatility it will give me to have the touch and pen features for that 15% of the time I'll actually use them. I am not a member of a vertical market. II am not a medical, engineering, or industrial user, or a student. I am average Joe full-time notebook user (read desktop replacement user). If I could have gotten a 15.4 inch wide-screen or even a 17 inch tablet, I might have gone for that. Hopefully, some time down the line, all notebooks will have tablet characteristics. I think it is an idea whose time has come.

Should you buy one? Well, unless you are an avid gamer or you are doing hard number crunching, yeah, I'd recommend the idea to you. Ultimately, it is your decision. Now you know how I made mine.

my-cool · #11 Post by **my-cool** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:51 am

SFWrtr-

You sold me!

I absolutely loved your post. It was detailed and really brought to light several benefits I hadn't considered.

Thank you so much.

pianowizard · #12 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:01 pm

SFWrtr wrote:With the fingerprint reader and improved resume from standby speed, I see swiping my finger and jotting notes immediately. No opening the lid, no typing a password.

If you leave the screen constantly facing outward, wouldn't the screen get damaged easily?

SFWrtr wrote:But, there's more! With a touch screen (read multi-touch), you do not have to use the pen. If you think about how you use the mouse to do things that don't involve writing (like Photoshop or web browsing), you'll realize it's just point, click, drag.

Someone needs to explain this MultiTouch thing to me. I had a Fujitsu touch-screen laptop made in around 1999 that could let me do all of the above things. So, the non-MultiTouch X60/X61 tablets can't? I thought technologies usually get advanced over time.

SFWrtr wrote:Because I can work remotely, there are times where I am a passenger in a car and trying desperately to work. Sunlight can wash out even the brightest LCD. The Thinkpad tablet is one of the few brands that offers the multi-view (and now Superview).

Does this Superview LCD consume more power, leading to shorter battery life than the conventional X-series LCDs?

SFWrtr wrote:Oh, but people say that getting the multitouch/multiview screen locks you into 1024x768. That's pretty small? Well, actually, no. Coming from 1920 x1200 15.4 inch screen, the text is a bit bigger. My aging eyes are going to be happy. As for lack of screen real estate, remember, I will use my laptop 80% of the time doing programming. At those times, I'll also have a 24 inch secondary monitor on my desk with 1200x1920 resolution. Still, I think you'll be surprised what you can fit in a 1024x768 area, esp. with Clear Type technology turned on.

This is a very personal preference and I urge the OP to make his/her own decision very carefully. The X61 tablet is fairly pricey and it's a shame to spend so much money on a crappy display.

SFWrtr · #13 Post by **SFWrtr** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:44 pm

As for how the multitouch/multiview works, I suggest that you nose around the www.gottabemobile.com site. They have an "ink show" that tries out the multi-touch aspect. This is pretty grand. It allows you to write with the pen, even with your hand on the screen. Without the pen, you can also use the screen. The technologies don't interfere and look appropriately sensitive, that is they work but they don't over guess what you are doing. A very nice combo.

Yes, the mutliview screen is dimmer. The number of nits is 150 verses 180. You can find that specification somewhere, I can't remember just this moment where. It is certain to be brighter than my 4 year old LCD...

As for keeping it open all the time... well, only open when I'm working. I wouldn't put it in the car open. I've also ordered the tablet sleeve, which looks somewhat protective. And, if all else fails, because this is going to be a constantly used desktop replacement machine, I also bought the onsite next day breakage protection plan. Remember, I said I spent over $3000? Well, that was 1/5th of the price.

Do different LCDs consume more power? If all things are the same, that if the lamps in the LCDs are the same and one is brighter than the other, the answer is probably yes.

This brings up a really big nitpick of mine. Power consumption.

As I said in my essay, I am one of the majority of laptop users not the minority of vertical market tablet users. True, I like to have the longest battery time possible, but I think I can also determine when that is necessary. This is to say, why not provide as an optional switchable discrete video? Give us both the 256MB NVIDA for the 80% of the time I'm plugged in and then let me switch to the X3100 when I'm on the go and need the battery power. I mean, if I really only need 2 1/2 hours for DVD or gaming entertainment, why not let me run the NVIDA on battery power and get 3 hours of life instead of 6-7. I think that Lenovo and DELL and the others need to wise up and see that these machines are multipurpose and at least give the option of have great power hungry graphics with a switch or a click. Not for everyone, but those that can budget it will say, well maybe now is the time I got a tablet.

That said, nobody seems to publish the amount of power components in the laptop or tablet use. The only one I can figure is the HDD. Specs for the Travelstar line are available on the web. From what I can tell, all modern HDD draw nearly the same power regardless of the rotational speed and therefore rotational speed should not be an issue. Sure, 7200 spin up will take longer and draw more power, but 1-2% difference over 7 hours should not be a biggy.

Well, I do agree that each person needs to decide what they need and what they can compromise upon. Once I make the decision and buy, I stop looking around. This helps with the buyer's remorse. For sure, tomorrow there will be something better - for me, I'm done waiting.

Ideasmiths · #14 Post by **Ideasmiths** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:15 am

my-cool wrote:I am ready to purchase an x61 series notebook and wonder if I should buy the tablet version.

If any of ya'll have experience using the tablet vs. the non-tablet version of the x series please let me know your opinions...I would like to order this as soon as possible.

If I choose the tablet is multi-touch useful?

<><
michael

I have been using X60 for a year and just got a X60 tablet with multitouch multiview.

Cons: The tablet is slightly bigger due to the battery and heavier

Pros: The mutliview is very useful if you are doing sales presentation or scribbing down notes like me. However, the angle of view the notes on a flat table seem a bit 'blurry' to me. May be due to my eyesight failing....sigh

The multitouch is quite useless for scribbing down notes unless using the lenovo tablet pen. I used an alternative PDA pen and it needs a lot of 'pressing' to register the writing. However, the lenovo one is Flawless and very nice.

My take? Get the tablet

bhtooefr · #15 Post by **bhtooefr** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:39 pm

FWIW, I'm assuming MultiTouch is still using a digitizer pen, just like the non-MT models, and not a piece of plastic.

Although that comment about the Fujitsu tablets interests me, because they DID use digitizer pens...

Anyway, you should use a Wacom pen (such as what comes with the laptop) with a MultiTouch display. That gets you several things, including the ability to move the mouse pointer without touching the screen (VERY useful.) Also, you get the real pen digitizing, and not the touchscreen.

VERY good points on OneNote and such. Although, I've used OneNote on both my X21 and R51e, and other than it being a little harder to make the occasional sketch, it wasn't bad. (I am a faster typist than a writer, and my writing is atrocious, though. I'm getting the tablet for the SXGA+ screen and the rotate ability, really - i do like reading web pages vertically.)

g2tl · #16 Post by **g2tl** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:17 pm

my-cool wrote:One of the things that is weighing heavily on me is the speed difference between the x61 and the x61t.

I want a faster notebook than I currently have...I don't want to spend 3k dollars and get a notebook that is a bit smaller and possible lets me write on the screen BUT ISN'T FASTER than what I currently use.

I am replacing a Dell Inspiron 600m with the following specs:
14.1" screen running sxga+ (1400 x 1050)
1.6ghz Pentium M processor
2gb of RAM
100gb 7200 rpm hard drive (thanks newegg.com)

I know that the x61t has a limit of 1.6ghz to order right now and the x61 will let me go with a 2ghz processor. I just want to know that what I am buying will be faster. I can't seem to find any benchmark comparisons between the pentium-m 1.6ghz and the Core-2-Duo 1.6ghz.

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you <><,
michael

In case you're still not completely sold :p

I've replaced my 600m with sxga+, 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 80GB 5400RPM HDD, and 64MB M9000. So you're sorta in the same boat.
There's a HUGE difference b/w an x61t and an i600m.
Google for "crystalmark" and download the free benchmarking software. I think I got more than twice the score for the cpu :p
What you're buying is faster by a physically noticeable margin.
This is especially true if you have more than 2GB of RAM (I have 3GB)
Granted, it takes longer to boot up. But this is a tablet pc and there're just that many more processes to run. Besides, I almost always hibernate :p

Try pushing your 600m to have several apps opened up, with like 10 tabs open in firefox. You'll want to kill yourself :p Not so with the x61t.

Oh, and you'll love the viewing angle on this thing. The screen is brighter, first of all, and it's impossible to get that stupid inverted image on the lcd here.

bhtooefr · #17 Post by **bhtooefr** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:34 pm

Another way to put it...

The L7500 LV, a dual core 1.6... EACH CORE is faster than your single core 1.6 Pentium M. More cache, faster FSB (twice the speed, actually,) and three or four YEARS of technological improvements.

mgags7 · #18 Post by **mgags7** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:21 am

as I read SFWrtr's post, I realized that I was using the "pen flicks" feature but with my finger to page down while reading....lol that's just an example of how cool the multitouch is.

Not that it may be something you use every day, but it is nice to have if you learn to use it.

the x61t is WAY faster than my 1.86ghz pentium M notebook I came from. You should keep that 7.2k hard drive though, swap it into the tablet when you get it.

Munich · #19 Post by **Munich** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:31 am

This is some cool reading, I thought about several of the benefits, but was not sure that I could realize them, after reading your post, it seems that I am going to be able to do it. The only question mark that I have is if I am going to sell my T60P or not. I use it as a desktop replacement powering a Samsung 22" LCD via DVI. To the contrary of you, I use 90% of the time for e-mails, some word typing and predominantely surfing the Internet.

Aristotle11 · #20 Post by **Aristotle11** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:55 pm

I have to turn off multitouch in order to get hte pend to work on both XP and vista for my X61t. With the multitouch on, the computer randomly switches from ink to text to lasso mode in journal and onenote 2007. Any ideas?

Do I need a tablet and if so do I want multi-touch?

Do I need a tablet and if so do I want multi-touch?

Weight difference

Re: Weight difference

Re: Weight difference

Re: Do I need a tablet and if so do I want multi-touch?

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