Vista Business on Intel 915 laptop: No Aero > Worth it?

[Tholek]

This is not about a TP, so this seems the place to put it, but if there's a better one (on the forum, I mean), feel free to move it.

Now, I wondered about this elsewhere, and got some varying responses. With all you PC experts here, I thought I'd put it to you as well.

Would I have a better, overall, experience with upgrading from XP Pro to Vista Business on a laptop that (supposedly) can't support Aero?

It's a Sony (don't stone me, I wanted a TP!) VAIO FS series model with a Pentium M 1.73Ghz CPU and integrated graphics on the Intel 915 chipset. I've got 2GB RAM as well, an 80GB PATA 5400rpm HD, and it has an internal Memory Stick reader. Now, I have some 1GBs and a 2GB Memory Stick that I don't even have a camera for (just got them cheap for some additional storage), so I can just insert one dedicated for ReadyBoost/Drive and forget about it.

This thing is, will it be as good as XP Pro is for me now, or will it be slower, and buggier?

I got the upgrade disc from Sony a couple of months ago, and decided to put it off until a service pack, until I read that ReadyBoost/Drive might improve performance (slightly, I know). That has piqued my interest in upgrading now.

I'm just interested in whether anyone here has had experiences in upgrading to Vista on an FS, or just an Intel 900/910/915 based system, and how it performs.

Thanks for any advice.

[Kyocera]

if it won't run aero, i would not upgrade, that's part of the coolness of vista, have you gone to the ms website and checked the WIE or windows experience index for the machine and see what rating you get, if it's below 3 i'd stick with xp.

i have vista on three machines, ultimate, home premium and business versions, there is nothing that great about it other than the cool grapichs. If you can't run that i'ld stay with xp.

[Tholek]

How do you check the score when you have to install Vista to get a score? If you mean there's someplace where I can see a posted score of someone who has my laptop and has installed Vista, where can I find that?

All I found I could do is run WVUA, and this was what I got:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6592 ... 0p3rh4.gif

I've also read that it's possible Intel could release an updated driver for this chipset that would run Aero (like the early Vista betas), but this doesn't seem to be in their interest, and they're sitting on it.

Either way, Aero or no, I wonder if it will still perform as well, even if it isn't as flashy.

[Kyocera]

there used to be a link here, it may be in the vista conference, you go to MS web and istall a little tool and it runs to check your computer, wish I had more time right now to find it sorry.

[Tholek]

If you mean WVUA (Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor) then that's what I ran, and took a screenshot of. I'll look for something else, in case that's not it.

EDIT: The core app that provides the WEI score within Vista is included in the WVUA. It's apparently called winsat which can be run from the command line. I found that to run it fully ("formal") and get a score it has to be on Vista. XP is not supported. You can run other tests, though. This was the best I could get:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

WinSAT V1.0 Build-0 Private-Build
Built By:wmbla Branch:vista_rtm Date:Mar 14 2007 01:23:24
Windows System Assessment Tool

Command line usage:

WINSAT <assesment_name> [switches]

Valid assessment names
formal run the full set of assessments and save the results
features just run the features assessment
cpu run the cpu assessment
mem run the system memory assessment
dwm run the desktop window manager assessment
d3d run the d3d assessment
media run the media assessment
mfmedia run the Media Foundation based assessment
disk run the storage assessment

An assessment name is mandatory.

The 'formal' assessment will run all the assessments and save the data
in '%systemroot%\windows\performance\datastore' This is the only
assessment that will save data in this location.

The 'features' assessment simply enumerates the system's features.
This is best used with the '-xml <filename>' switch to save the data.
The '-eef' switch can be used to enumerate extra features such as
optical disks, memory modules, and other items.

Other command line paramters include include:
'-v' enable verbose output
'-xml <filename>' save the XML output to 'filename'

Running the "winsat dwm" command will re-assess the systems graphics
capeabilities and restart the desktop window manager.

Please see the online Command Reference for more information
on the command line parameters used with the other assessments.

winsat.exe dwm -normalw 10 -glassw 4 -time 10 -v -fullscreen

Private > Winsat aux environment string is '%WINSAT%'
WinSAT V1.0 Build-0 Private-Build
Built By:wmbla Branch:vista_rtm Date:Mar 14 2007 01:23:24
Windows System Assessment Tool
> Command Line '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor\winsat
.exe" dwm -normalw 10 -glassw 4 -time 10 -v -fullscreen'
> The System supports dynamic CPU power managment
> System processor power policy saved and set to 'max performance'
> Running: Feature Enumeration v1.0.0.0 ''
> Gathering System Information
> Run Time 00:00:01.06
> Operating System : 5.1 Build-2600
> Processor : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.73
GHz
> TSC Frequency : 0
> Number of Processors : 1
> Number of Cores : 1
> Number of CPUs : 1
> Number of Cores per Processor : 1
> Number of CPUs Per Core : 1
> Cores have logical CPUs : NO
> L1 Cache and line Size : 32768 64
> L2 Cache and line Size : 2097152 64
> Adapter Description : Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Exp
ress Chipset Family
> Adapter Manufacturer : Intel Corporation
> Adapter Driver Version : 6.14.10.4764
> Adapter Driver Date (yy/mm/dd) : 2007\1\13
> Has DX9 or better : Yes
> Has Pixel shader 2.0 or better : Yes
> Has LDDM Driver : No
> Dedicated (local) video memory : 128.00MB
> System memory dedicated as video memory : 0.00MB
> System memory shared as video memory : 0.00MB
> Primary Monitor Size : 1280 X 800 (1024000 total pixels)
> Running: WinSAT Direct3D Assessment v1.0.0.0 '-normalw 10 -glassw 4 -time 10 -
v -fullscreen'
Entering function D3DCommon::DX9Init
Entering function D3DCommon::DX9Shutdown
Entering function D3DCommon::CreateQueries
Entering function D3DCommon::FreeQueries
Entering function SimpleDWM::OnCreateDevice
Entering function D3DCommon::CreateQueries
Entering function SimpleDWM::OnResetDevice
Entering function SimpleDWM::OnLostDevice
Entering function D3DCommon::FreeQueries
Entering function D3DCommon::CreateQueries
Entering function SimpleDWM::OnResetDevice
Entering function D3DCommon::DX9Shutdown
Entering function SimpleDWM::OnLostDevice
Entering function D3DCommon::FreeQueries
Entering function SimpleDWM::OnDestroyDevice
> Run Time 00:00:11.28
Entering function D3DCommon::ProcessLog
> Graphics Performance 3.49 F/s
> Video Memory Throughput 29.77 MB/s
> Run Time 00:00:15.89
> Total Run Time 00:00:17.92
> The System processor power policy was restored
> ******* Composition not restarted

I have no idea how to interpret that, however.

[Kyocera]

I downloaded and ran the upgrade advisor and get nothing like what you are seeing, what OS are you running now?
I'll post a screen shot later when I have more time.

[Tholek]

OK, I'm gonna assume that WVUA was the app you originally referred to. I posted a screenshot above that should match what you're seeing. You indicated it was some other app that gave a score, so I went looking and found that you only get that on Vista with an app that comes bundled with WVUA, WinSat. I can't get a score with it on XP, and can only run some of its tests from a command line. The results of the graphics test was what I last posted.

Anyhow, does anyone else have an opinion? I have no problem with upgrading, I have the disc in hand, and can free up some HD space for it. I just want some input as to whether I'll regret it or not.

If I'll get the same, but no better, performance as I am now, I'd still upgrade just to familiarize myself with Vista.

[Kyocera]

Install it try it if you don't like it remove it, I don't see what the big deal is. I installed Vista Business on my R52 it ran sluggish I removed it, I intalled Vista on my T60 it screams I love it, it stays, but dual boots with XP.

[Tholek]

Yeah, I guess I just want to get the most information before attempting it. Things can always go wrong, and going back isn't always so easy.

[mgo]

This is not
Would I have a better, overall, experience with upgrading from XP Pro to Vista Business on a laptop that (supposedly) can't support Aero?Thanks for any advice.

Welcome. Good questions. I have 3 ThinkPads; a R51, R52 & T43p. Using separate hard drives, I can switch over to my choice of XP or Vista on either machine.

This has helped me to compare the two OSs. My findings are, no real reasons to switch to Vista....XP is doing very nicely for me for the time being. Maybe in a year or two I will change my mind if Vista improves that much, or if XP gets orphaned by Microsoft.

The R51 has one gig of ram, the other two sport 2 gig. Chips are around 1.6 and 1.8 or 2.0. Speed isn't a problem on any of them...they don't bog down at all.

The R51 will not run Aero, the other two will. Aero is merely a transparency, and that doesn't serve any real need for me as a user. The Flip 3D is a way of switching thru a series of windows on the desktop. Flip works fine on the R52 and the T43p. That's OK for jumping from program to program, but ALT+ESC will do the same thing.

I run "Classic" view in both XP and Vista, because the computer doesn't have to use up as much power to simply show me a desktop in that mode. Additionally, the more visually complex Vista UI makes the brain and eye work harder when you navigate around the desktop because you have to look at more and process more as you work. That can make one more tired sooner. Therefor, the Classic view is less wearing.

Your machine will run about 5% to 20% slower in Vista, and it will run about 2 to 5 degs hotter. This is because Vista is a busier OS and is doing more things.

Indexing in Vista can be a pain while it thrashes the hard drive creating the data base, but you can always opt out some of the folders that you don't care about. Unlike XP, Indexing cannot be turned off in Vista, which is really dumb.

Boot up will be nearly the same, especially when the Super Fetch in Vista "learns" your system.

Sleep and Hibernate work ok for me on all three machines in Vista. If your computer has special programs or features make sure you can download and install them from their site. Drivers should be available from them, too.

Vista has a nice "clean" look (with Clear Type turned on), but then so does XP. Using the Classic mode in Windows Explorer is cleaner and less confusing to the eye, so I prefer that, too.

If you have a spare hard drive install Vista on it so you can switch back and forth, or use Acronis or some other imaging application and go back and forth that way.

One important thing: Copy and Paste in Vista is slower than hell. This is a known bug and people get very frustrated as the dialog box goes thru some sort of stupid process with lots of annoying delays while it "calculates" how long the copy job will take. The "calculations" are always wrong and the whole process is infuriating when you just want to get some basic work done!

If you have hundreds of megs to copy or worse yet, a few gigs, it will make you crazy. This horrid bug alone, is enough to make you want to stay away from Vista, unless you learn to use the really fast Robocopy for the copy jobs. Robocopy does not have the slowness problem.

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[Tholek]

Thanks for the input.

Which chipsets do your laptops run on?