win98se sys C: not booting on newer thinkpadas

[teetee]

I think I might miss something but I just can't figure it out myself.
I was trying to make a hard drive bootable by using win98se so that I can install windows 2000 w/o any optical drives involved. I started with my usual approach:

1. get a 2.5" hard drive and mount it on a X24 (replace the original hd in X24) with ultrabase attached.

2. Boot up X24 with win98se boot floppy disk, partition (FAT32) and format the hard drive.

3. I also activate the first primary partition to make it bootable(in fdisk) and "fdisk /mbr" to make sure nothing in the boot sector of the hard drive gets in the way.

4. Then I do "sys C:" to transfer the system.

5. Then I shut off the X24, de-attach the ultrabase. The following result is what I get after I put the hard drive into different thinkpads and boot them up:

a. X24 : Invalid system disk error
b. T40: Invalid system disk error
c. 240x : boot right up and go into C:\> prompt.
d. a 900Mhz desktop w/ intel chip mainboard (I use one of those 40pin IDE to standard IDE converter) : boot right up and go into C:\> prompt.

I wonder if there is anything I am missing here.

Thanks in advance for all the opinions.

[al7kz]

Try this http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330141

Also, I read somewhere in MS's knowledge base that you need to use fdisk from ME or later to partition for 2000 or XP.

Edit: here it is http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-58385

[teetee]

Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that I purposely disabled the recovery function in T40's BIOS because I really don't need it. My hard drive is meant to use on the T40. And yes I did rearrange the boot device order to make the hard drive become the first to boot.

After more testing, I discovered that if I format the installation partition into NTFS file system format during windows 2000 installation, the machine will boot fine (and then start the 2nd-stage installation of win2000).

Now since I can't boot my hard drive on the T40 because it doesn't have any optical drive or any external bootable device(USB floppy for example), I thought I could start my windows 2000 installation on X24 and after the first restart I just move the hard drive to T40 and continue the installation. As I thought, the computer boots up fine but shows me the BSOD after the system loading screen. The error msg: "Inaccessible boot device" has shown and I looked it up online. There are lots of possible reasons could cause this.

I think I will try again once I get a ultrabay slim DVD-rom or a USB floppy drive for T40.

[RealBlackStuff]

T4x hard disks need to be initialized, as described in the post by 'taphil' here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... +hard+disk

[Temetka]

The problem is the IDE controller. Win2K is notoriously hard to move from machine to machine.

I would create a 4gb partition, FAT32 for Win98SE.

Then partition the remaining space as FAT32 as well.

Install 98 on the first partition.

Create a folder on the 2nd partition (D:\). Copy the Win2k contents there.

Drop to DOS making sure you have emm386.exe, himem.sys and smartdrv.exe loaded up. It will GREATLY increase the DOS based portion of the Win2K setup.

Run the Win2K setup program (winnt i believe).

When it goes to reboot the first time, stick the HD in the T40. You should be good to go from there.

After Win2K is loaded up, then you can convert the partition to NTFS if that is what you want.

I have used this technique on literally hundreds of machines and it has NEVER failed me.

Again, the INACCESSIBLE BOOT DEVICE is basically Win2k's way of telling you that it loaded an incorrect driver for the IDE controller during the 2nd stage of the install. This can be avoided by going through the above mentioned steps. Plus you will be able to dual boot between 98SE and Win2K which is a bonus.

[teetee]

Run the Win2K setup program (winnt i believe).

When it goes to reboot the first time, stick the HD in the T40. You should be good to go from there.

After Win2K is loaded up, then you can convert the partition to NTFS if that is what you want.

I got BSOD right after I moved the HD to T40 and tried to continue win2000 setup. I didn't install win98 neither make the first partition for win98 (FAT32) though. If I do FAT32 on the first partition and install win98 system files by using sys C: command then when I put the hd into T40 it just gave my invalid system disk error.

I pretty much repeat what I had tried before, but thanks anyway.

[RealBlackStuff]

Did you follow my previous post about initializing?
That's a MUST for HDs to be recognized in a T4x.

[Temetka]

The invalid system disk error can be a result of not having activated the primary boot partition. In this case you can run fdisk, then select option 2 and set the primary partition to be active. Exit fdisk and reboot.

So all you did was copy the CD contents to the drive partition? If you can get the drive to boot 98, then you should be able to run setup. Ideally you could boot the T40 then run setup for the first time with out even having to run it on the other machine first.

[teetee]

Did you follow my previous post about initializing?
That's a MUST for HDs to be recognized in a T4x.

No I didn't.

1. From the discussion link you gave me, taphil mentioned the initializing procedure is only needed for a new hard drive. The hard drive that I am trying to get to work is used. It's only 20gb and can be recognized by T40. I just has problem trying to get it to boot on T40 when I use sys c: command and transfer win98 system to it.

2. T40 has no problem recognizing it. Although I don't know much about initializing procedure, I suspect it's the same thing as "activate" the hard drive partition so that partition(normally it's the first primary) is flagged as bootable. As I mention before if I do the first stage installation of windows2000 on X24 and then move the hard drive to T40 and try to continue the installation, it boots up fine but shows me the BSOD screen due to "inaccessible boot device" error. This is purely windows problem since there is big difference on the mainboard(X24 vs T40).


Sorry I didn't make myself clear before.

[RealBlackStuff]

Yeah, but that HD is NEW to your T40, it's never been in one, has it?
I can't talk from experience, only have T23 and T30, but it sounds as if that HD needs the specific footprint/fingerprint to be recognized in a T40.
It would not hurt to 'init' it first in the T40, then do your W98/W2K stuff in the other TP before putting it back in the T40.

[GomJabbar]

I'll take a stab at this. Here are a couple of possibilities. If your hard drive had a PARTIES partition on it, that might be causing your problem. Alternatively, the BIOS's in the different ThinkPads might read the hard disk geometry differently. To fix the first problem, use the Hitachi Feature Tool. To fix the second, zero out the hard drive. There are several tools available for this. I hear that PC Doctor for DOS can do this.

Format HDD with IBM Hidden Partition

Hitachi Feature Tool

Hard disk geometry thread

PC Doctor for DOS bootable CD - ThinkPad

I am not saying that the previous posters are incorrect. They just might have the solution that you need. But if you have tried their solutions without success, you might want to consider the above.

EDIT: If you try the above, I believe you will still need to (1) Initialize the disk, (2) Partition the disk, and (3) Format the disk.

[teetee]

Thanks for all the help. I finally got it working. What I did was to write down the steps I should do in details and just follow each steps. It wasn't not clear where the problem is but now it boots up w/ win98 and I installed win2000 w/o any problems.

One thing I would like to mention is that IBM really makes the bios update and the EC update painless(by non-diskette method). I thought I might need an internal optical drive to upgrade the BIOS but I was wrong. It was so easy to do it on the hard drive.

Thanks again!