Shipping to Hong Kong?

Message

chadwicktr · #1 Post by **chadwicktr** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:00 pm

I have my t60 listed on ebay. I received a question from a potential buyer from Hong Kong asking how much shipping would be. In my auction it states no international shipping which I put to avoid scammers.

However, this guy has 24+ feedback since 2/2005 with no negatives. He claims he can pay via a verified paypal account.

Should I give him a quote, or tell him I am not shipping internationally?

compnerd4 · #2 Post by **compnerd4** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:31 pm

I would give him a quote! i've donne a lot of dealing with people from all over asia! NEVER once had a problem!

#3 Post by **BillMorrow** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:51 am

EXCEPT that a high percentage of scammers do this..

i would limit the sale to a bank wire or a cleared cashiers check..

chadwicktr · #4 Post by **chadwicktr** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:15 am

thanks for the heads up Bill. I'll just say no instead of going through the hassle...

sokos · #5 Post by **sokos** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:54 pm

i don't understand what is the problem if a buyer pays via paypal.
I have bought quite a few things from Ebay and I have 100% feedback, so If i did ask you to buy it, what would the problem be?

I m just curious what could go wrong in an ebay auction when you the transaction goes through paypal.

#6 Post by **ryengineer** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:27 pm

Paypal is one of the most secure method of transaction in today's world (no-doubt) but lets say if things go wrong, you could be short of your bucks and on the losing end.

I still have an open case with paypal (that went in my favor) for the last 2.5 years. Some guy sent me a phone which apparently was not as he described in his auction. So we mutually agreed not to continue the deal and he asked to return the phone which I did but he never refunded my money.

Paypal did it's investigation and issued a partial refund but I'm still short of $100.

sokos · #7 Post by **sokos** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:39 pm

so the buyer gets [censored], not the seller!

#8 Post by **ryengineer** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:09 pm

sokos wrote:so the buyer gets [censored], not the seller!

True. I have not encountered any problem with any buyer on ebay as of yet. But some people say there are some who try to pay you through illegal means. Honestly, I am not sure how they make these things to work...

hrdc69 · #9 Post by **hrdc69** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:47 am

Lots of things can go wrong when you agree to sell something via Paypal especially to international buyers. If the buyer is dishonest he could claim the merchandise was "not as advertised" or a host of other bogus reasons. If he pays for it with a credit card and disputes the purchase with his credit card 99% of the time his credit card will side with him.

At this point Paypal is out of the loop and will automatically take the money out of your account when the buyers credit card company reverses the charges. The buyer is supposed to return the "defective" merchandise to you but a lot of loopholes there too.

Last year I sold a $800 camera to a Ebay buyer with 99% positive feedback. He claimed the camera was defective, put in a dispute with his credit card company and Paypal removed the money from my account. He claimed he mailed the camera back to me but I never got it. Repeated complaints to Paypal that he never sent me the camera back fell on deaf ears. They told me I would have to work out any delivery problems with the buyer directly as they were now out of the loop.

Just search the net for countless similar horror stores about Paypal.

SkiBunny · #10 Post by **SkiBunny** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:55 am

But whether the buyer is an international or domestic buyer has no bearing on his/her ability to file a fraudulent chargeback, correct?

scosgt1 · #11 Post by **scosgt1** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:33 am

Verified and business sellers have protection against this type of fraud as long as they ship to a confirmed address. I think they now have confirmed addresses in Canada, but how are you going to be sure of a confirmed address in Indonesia or Nigeria or where ever?
The safe bet is just don't do it, unless the person will pay with some kind of verified instrument that you can clear before you ship, assuming you are willing to thru the other hassles in international shipping, such as customs forms and the lack of good insurance coverage. And it is a well known scam to pay with fake money orders from overseas, they can take 4-6 weeks to bounce, and you are out your items.
Remember, there are lots of potential customers in the US. If you have a business and are set up for international trading, fine. As an individual or very small business, this is a real problem. I sent two drives (floppy and DVD) down to an acquaintance in Mexico (A NAFTA Country, after all). Six weeks later he refused the package, because Customs wanted $100 import duty. SIX MONTHS LATER I got the package back!
I'll stick with shipping to the US, thank you very much.

SkiBunny · #12 Post by **SkiBunny** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:01 pm

Good points. Hmm i think I will never ship overseas again unless I receive a cash-equivalent payment. Buy most buyers are, understandably, reluctant to pay that way.

Even if you ship only within the US or North America (yes canada has paypal-confirmed addresses), that only protects you against fraudulent claims of non-shipment. If the buyer claims the item was "materially different" than advertised or "fraudulent" (eg., you shipped a box with a brick in it), you're still exposed even having shipped domestically.

I haven't had a bad buyer yet on ebay, except for non-payment or slow payment, but I prefer cash & carry. That way, both parties to the transaction can be satisfied as the deal complete.

scosgt1 · #13 Post by **scosgt1** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:08 pm

I have made a few disputes when people sent me junk - such as a laptop with a line down the screen, that is absolutely not as advertised. I have won them all, but I noticed that the sellers did not fight too hard!
I always understate what I sell, so no one has complained. And if I sell something and it is not as advertised, just send it back. On new sealed units, they are not returnable, but then most jerks won't lay out $1100 or more on immediate payment required just to send it back. Too much risk for a scammer. They only seem to get cute on lower priced items, so they won't lose too much if the scam fails.
Not talking about the Nigerian/Albanian scammers of course, they don't pay you with real money anyway.

#14 Post by **Harryc** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:08 pm

I was scammed on an international shipment once to Indonesia. The buyer has opened up a Paypal account with a stolen credit card. The payment bounced a day after shipment. As stated previously Paypal was no help.

scosgt1 · #15 Post by **scosgt1** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:14 pm

That is because you did not ship to a confirmed address.

That is a cardinal rule. I have refunded payments because the buyer did not provide a confirmed address.

I would rather not sell something than give it away to a scammer

#16 Post by **Harryc** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:11 pm

That was many years ago, and I gave it as an example of yet another reason why it may not be a good idea to ship overseas. In retrospect it is not a good example because anyone can open up a Paypal account with a stolen credit card. Duly noted about the verified address ... I learned that lesson the same day

.

ajkula66 · #17 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:52 am

But the bottom line is, the confirmed addresses can be only U.S. or Canadian, which, in my opinion, is a scandal. What PayPal is doing is basically inspiring EU buyers to scam you, even if it hasn't been their original intent...lost an X30 to Netherlands like that 2 years ago, and have done numerous international transactions since, but accepted PayPal only when I've personally known the buyer, or had a friend (with a bank account) vouch for him/her...PayPal is convenient, but it sucks...whoever came up with that scam knew what he/she was doing.

Europe is a great market, as is Australia, as are some parts of Asia. But it takes some guts and a lot of trust in humanity in general on both sides to complete a deal these days.

alivetoday · #18 Post by **alivetoday** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:40 am

The Paypal accounts in Europe can be verified (confirmed??) too,I have verified Paypal through Nordea Bank which has very strict policies. If I would put a fake credit card in Paypal, it would not take long time before police/bank/local authorities would know it.
In some European countries the police force is not working well and in some european countries like in Finland the police is still of high quality, every reported crime is investigated and cleared up.

ajkula66 · #19 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:23 pm

Verified, yes. Confirmed, NO. Big difference from a seller's point.

alivetoday · #20 Post by **alivetoday** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:05 pm

Paypal says.

Your member status is: Verified

This means that you have completed your enrollment in PayPal's Expanded Use Program and can send an unlimited amount of money with your PayPal account.

I am not sure if it means it is confirmed, but I do believe so?

ajkula66 · #21 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:46 pm

Absolutely NOT. PayPal claims they have no way of confirming an address outside North America. That's an absolutely idiotic claim, but we have to live by its consequences.

If you were to send me a $1, you'd see that your address would come as unconfirmed. That has nothing to do with a verified account, but makes it dangerous to send you stuff from a seller's standpoint.

scosgt1 · #22 Post by **scosgt1** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:01 pm

I think that there are some places in the world where you really could not confirm an address.

That being said, PayPal is, I think, a US Company. So there may be legal issues with them offering seller protection out of North America.

In any event, I personally think someone is just plain dumb to ship out of the US (or North America as I do think you can get seller protection in Canada) using PayPal. You have absolutely no assurance that you will actually get to keep the payment.

furrycute · #23 Post by **furrycute** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:33 pm

There was this one time when a scammer almost got me. I put up an ebay auction for a pair of high end speakers, a couple of days later I was contacted by someone who claimed that he was from England and wanted to pay me via an international money order.

I said fine and he gave me an address in London. At the time I was aware of many of the cross continent scams that were going on. So just to be on the safe, I asked for his phone number in London, and told him that I wanted to speak with him in person. The fella e-mailed me back his phone number. So I proceeded with making an international call to London. But no matter how many times I dialed, I couldn't get through, and the phone company kept telling me that the number I dialed was not a valid number. I double checked the country code, the city code, and the phone number, I keyed in everything correctly. Right then and there, I had a funny feeling in my stomach.

Just to give that fella a second chance, I e-mailed him telling him that I couldn't get through to him with the number gave me. He e-mailed me back the very next day apologizing for not making it clear that he was actually residing in another city in England (can't remember the name now). So I made a couple of more international calls. Not a valid number.

At that point in time I was pretty sure something was not right. But just out of curiosity I e-mailed that guy again and asked for an explanation. He e-mailed me back again apologizing profusely. This time he told me that he was away from Britain on business matters and at the time was actually in Nigeria. So I made one last call to Nigeria. Lo and behold, I finally got through to him. But after talking with him for just a couple of minutes, something just didn't smell right with this whole deal. So I finally told him that I was canceling the sale. Remember, I took the initiative to call this guy within the first couple of days after the close of auction, before he had a chance to mail out any payment.

And later on, I stumbled across a couple of boards that dealt exclusively with exposing this type of international scams. A couple of the forum members on one board actually reside in London. So I asked them about that shipping address in London that "buyer" gave me. Guess what, it turned out that it was a legitimate London address alright, but, it was the shipping address for a loading dock. Anything that went to that loading dock address was going to be rerouted to some place overseas. Unbelievable. The gall of those scammers.

And oh, one small casualty from this whole incident, my Yahoo e-mail address. Ever since I made that phone call to Nigeria, the Yahoo e-mail address which I had been using to communicate with that scammer suddenly got hit with LOADS of spam mails. It got to be so bad that I had to eventually abandon that account.

Anyways, just a cautionary tale I wanted to share with everyone.

scosgt1 · #24 Post by **scosgt1** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:44 pm

Some forum members and list members get mad at me because I won't ship overseas.

Well, I would rather keep my money and have them mad at me.

Someday maybe something will be put into place to protect overseas sellers. But right now that does not exist.

chadwicktr · #25 Post by **chadwicktr** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:27 am

Well the sale has ended 6/24 w/ a US buyer and both parties are happy.

But thanks for all the helpful info. I will never sell anything valuable to an international bidder unless things change...

Toine · #26 Post by **Toine** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:01 am

The problem is I think, that people don't want to sell to europe period.

I'm an thinkpad forums member for some time now, I have like 230+ feedback on ebay and on paypal. BUT still some people don't want to ship to me.

I think it's weird, because people in the US can get some good prices for their laptops here in europe.

scosgt1 · #27 Post by **scosgt1** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:18 pm

I think you just didn't read the above posts.

I am not about to sell overseas until there is a safe guaranteed way to do it. I work too hard for my money to lose it by:

Fake PayPal dispute
Stolen credit card
Customs problem
Inability to collect insurance from foreign shipping company
fake money order
SCAM

To ship overseas, instead of a simple click and ship and just drop the package at the counter, I have to stand on line (maybe for an hour) fill out a customs form (won't lie) and hope the package gets there and I get the money. And there are FEDERAL LAWS in regards to exporting technology. Some exports require a LICENSE. I have no idea what or to where.

It is just not worth it. Where is the benefit to me?

Toine · #28 Post by **Toine** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:04 pm

scosgt1 wrote:I think you just didn't read the above posts.

I am not about to sell overseas until there is a safe guaranteed way to do it. I work too hard for my money to lose it by:

Fake PayPal dispute
Stolen credit card
Customs problem
Inability to collect insurance from foreign shipping company
fake money order
SCAM

To ship overseas, instead of a simple click and ship and just drop the package at the counter, I have to stand on line (maybe for an hour) fill out a customs form (won't lie) and hope the package gets there and I get the money. And there are FEDERAL LAWS in regards to exporting technology. Some exports require a LICENSE. I have no idea what or to where.

It is just not worth it. Where is the benefit to me?

Really? Dang, that does sound bad!

Here at the dutch postoffice it's all the same, no hassle whatsoever.

brainpicker · #29 Post by **brainpicker** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:48 pm

Toine wrote:Really? Dang, that does sound bad!
Here at the dutch postoffice it's all the same, no hassle whatsoever.

Toine, I have to agree with scosgt1, it IS a big hassle for us. I had a problem just recently that I won't go into at this time, but the buyer is far from happy I'm sure. For the Dutch maybe it's not a big deal as you claim, but when I ship out of the US I have to deal with both US security laws and restrictions each EU country has to avoid VAT fraud for example (no wonder our prices are so good as you claim in a post above)! It's never a "one size fits all" solution, as several times I've had to go home and re-box (or ship at a different post office as I needed to speak to a postmaster) due to the shipping method not being accepted by the receiving country or insurance limitations.

So we have possible payment fraud, security regulations, tax regulations, insurance limitations (all which vary, sometimes daily, based on WHERE we ship to) and all the extra time & travel involved, not to mention the more than occasional buyer who wants a $1000+/- item shipped as a "gift" to avoid VAT taxes/customs fees then doesn't have a plan-B when they get caught!!! I've been very easy to deal with for non-US buyers and had tried to help in any way I could (and I still will for my friends), but after this past weekend I will have to re-think all of that for general sales of stuff I need to get rid of.

As for the Dutch having no hassels, well, I suppose when your biggest "threat" is all the water you have to pump out daily just to have a country to even protect, well, you pick your battles!

*

- Yak
*(for any of you who might get needlessly upset by that last statement it was a JOKE)

Website · #30 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:56 pm

scosgt does have a valid point on the waiting period at the post office. Here in the middle of nowhere...it doesn't take any longer. HOWEVER, when I was in Chicago, and tried using the post offices down town.....krikey...you had to wait in long lines, and I generally ended up with more than an hour lunch, because I had to mail something. Whereas, as scosgt pointed out, with the click and ship that the post office offers, i can print my own labels and just drop it off, but not for international orders...atleast not the last time that I tried.

Again, here in nowhereville, I can be in and out in 5 minutes on almost ANY day.

Shipping to Hong Kong?

Shipping to Hong Kong?

Nope

Ebay and PayPal

Because

Scammers

And

I think

Re: I think

Re: I think

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