X61 Tablet and Vista x64

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kengetz · #1 Post by **kengetz** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:30 am

Well, the X61 tablet arrived yesterday (it took less than 24 hours to get from Shanghai to my door in CA, using 2-day shipping! Pretty cool!)

I'm generally happy with it. It's heavier than I expected, and that big battery is REALLY BIG (bigger than the big battery on a T42P, my last Thinkpad).

I've spent the past hours trying to get Vista x64 happy on the machine (so I can use all 4GB of memory for development work) and it's ALMOST there. There are lots of issues finding the drivers, however, so beware. Currently, the 64-bit video driver file on the Lenovo site is corrupt, so it won't extract, which doesn't help.

I didn't take careful notes, unfortunately, on how to get it all working, but at this point, given the video driver I found on Intel's site, everything is at least recognized (the video driver from Intel isn't QUITE right--blurps occasionally--but it's close).

Just wanted to let everyone know that it IS possible to installed Vista x64 and get all the hardware recognized, but it will take some effort. Software Update 3.0 misses over half the necessary drivers. Ah, well. -- Ken

rog1039 · #2 Post by **rog1039** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:33 am

Hey Ken,

Were you able to find drivers for all the tablet specific features such as the buttons for auto-rotate, the escape button, the 4-way nav dial?

I want to install 64-bit Vista as well but want to make sure that *everything* works before I make the plunge.

Thanks,
Paul

P.s. How much RAM shows up in Vista? i.e. How much ram is used by the integrated graphics?

#3 Post by **tomh009** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:02 pm

rog1039 wrote:P.s. How much RAM shows up in Vista? i.e. How much ram is used by the integrated graphics?

Yes, this has been a hot topic of discussion for the past few days!

spune · #4 Post by **spune** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:45 pm

tomh009 wrote:
rog1039 wrote:P.s. How much RAM shows up in Vista? i.e. How much ram is used by the integrated graphics?
Yes, this has been a hot topic of discussion for the past few days!

I would also like to know.

kengetz · #5 Post by **kengetz** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:26 am

Hi. I WAS able to find all the drivers, except the video driver. I called support and complained about the fact that the current video driver (dated 6/1/2007) has a corrupted installer -- it simply won't extract and install, so you can run the setup program. The real driver is STILL not available. I'm just amazed -- it's been two weeks, and they haven't managed to reconstruct a version that installs. What's also amazing is that this file is for R61, T61, and X61 running Vista x64, and I don't see anyone else complaining.

After much complaining, one nice technician sent me a set of recovery disks for Vista x64 (YES, they have them available!) I don't know if they'd do it again, or how hard they are to get. I guess I got lucky... This got me a complete, clean install (the only "crapware" was Norton Internet Security, which I immediately removed.)

With 4GB of memory installed, running Vista x64, I see 4022MB of memory available. I have a lot of stuff running, so it's hard to tell how much is actually free, but I know that in Vista x86 I see only around 3GB of memory. Definitely more available in x64.

But the real problems (and although I've done a bit of searching on these, with LOTS of hits, I haven't been able to resolve them):

1.) Continual blue screens. Seemingly related to turbo memory, I did install the latest (7/3/2007) driver, and it seems to work better. But still, occasionally, it blue screens.

2.) The video driver is a disaster. It corrupts itself quite often, sometimes every 10-15 minutes. It pops up a dialog that indicates that it has stopped responding, and has recovered, and things generally look OK, but I get weird angular artifacts on the screen until I reboot. I have been unable to install the reference driver from Intel's site -- it says that it's not the right driver for the computer, even though it really is. Some site suggested uninstalling and reinstalling the driver, which I have done several times to no avail. It continues to fail.

If anyone has a solution to either of these problems, please post it. If I don't get this thing stable in a week, it's going back. I've NEVER spent this long attempting to get a Thinkpad to work. And at this point, if I can't get Vista x64 to work on a laptop, I don't want it. (So what actually is the current return policy for purchases direct from Lenovo, anyway <g>?)

#6 Post by **tomh009** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:21 pm

kengetz wrote:With 4GB of memory installed, running Vista x64, I see 4022MB of memory available. I have a lot of stuff running, so it's hard to tell how much is actually free, but I know that in Vista x86 I see only around 3GB of memory. Definitely more available in x64.

Thanks, Ken. At least the rumours of a Lenovo bug causing less than 4 GB to be accessible in 64-bit mode are now officially debunked. The memory access works as it should with Santa Rosa.

Unfortunately it sounds like the 64-bit drivers are not as mature as one would hope, though.

Tom

kengetz · #7 Post by **kengetz** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:32 pm

Amazingly, I've now gone several hours without a hitch! I downloaded the latest intel video drivers here:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/filter_ ... bmit=Go%21

You can't run the setup program (it tells you that the drivers are for a different machine) but you can manually update the driver to use the one in this package. You must UNINSTALL the current driver (so you're using the standard VGA driver) and then update to the one in this download. As long as I was there, I also updated the INF drivers to the latest. Things seem to be happier. No blue screen, and no screen driver failing this morning! So maybe I'll keep this after all.

Now to just learn how to use the keyboard -- it feels really cramped, and I'm a really serious touch typist. I use Ctrl, Alt, and Shift a LOT in the templates I use for writing, and the Windows key REALLY gets in the way! Wish they had never added that...

-- Ken

spune · #8 Post by **spune** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:00 pm

Thanks Ken. Can you tell us what kind of battery life you're getting? I'm assuming you have the 8 cell.

kengetz · #9 Post by **kengetz** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:14 pm

I have the 8-cell and the 4-cell.

THe smaller one gets maybe 2 hours, if I'm lucky. But it's a lot more convenient, and weighs a lot less. The 8-cell gets around 6 hours of normal use, perhaps longer if I turn everything down and I'm just typing. I tried watching videos non-stop on my plane flight last week: I got maybe four hours of video watching from the large battery. I thought that was pretty good...

stallen · #10 Post by **stallen** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:03 pm

Do you still have turbo memory enabled? Seems that many people are blaming turbo memory for BSODs over on the notebookreview.com forum I personally don't believe it. There are plenty of other people that have it enabled without a hitch.

Antioch · #11 Post by **Antioch** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:24 pm

Ken, would you mind taking a look at my thread here and see if you can help me out? Or at least comment on your experience.

Appreciate it.

ps - It seems you're a coder - why did you go for the tablet? For the SXGA+ or to use the writing features? Just curious as I'm trying to decide.

kengetz · #12 Post by **kengetz** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:56 pm

Stallen: I DO have the turbo memory enabled (although I'm only using it for ReadyDrive -- I'm using a 4GB SDHC card for ReadyBoost, just to see how it works). With the newest driver, I haven't had a blue screen in a few days.

Antioch: I AM a coder/writer, but wanted a smaller laptop. I would have gotten the X61s if it supported the higher resolution screen--can't even imagine why it doesn't, but it doesn't, so... I do like the tablet features -- it's really nice on an airplane, or while watching TV or something. I'm having a hard time with the keyboard (I use key combinations using Ctrl+Alt+Shift a lot, and that darned windows key gets in the way!) Otherwise, since I got it relatively stable, I'm a happy camper (but that doesn't mean I might not consider also getting a T61P when they come out <g>). -- Ken

stallen · #13 Post by **stallen** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:29 pm

kengetz wrote:Stallen: I DO have the turbo memory enabled (although I'm only using it for ReadyDrive -- I'm using a 4GB SDHC card for ReadyBoost, just to see how it works). With the newest driver, I haven't had a blue screen in a few days.

That's interesting. I didn't know that it was possible to use two different devices and split up readydrive and readyboost.

What "newest driver". The intel graphics or the new turbo memory driver that appeared and disappeared on the Lenovo driver website a few days ago.

What SDHC card do you use?

rog1039 · #14 Post by **rog1039** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:09 pm

Hey Ken,

I have a question about how you activated Vista 64-bit.

Did you use a 64-bit DVD of Vista with your OEM key from the bottom of the X61? Or did you buy a new copy of Vista 64-bit to perform this installation?

I'm wondering if I can use a 64-bit Vista DVD from work with the OEM key that my X61 came with.

Thanks!

Paul

EDIT: Another question Ken. Do you think it is possible to get the system up and running without those discs the lenovo tech sent you? I only have a Vista Ultimate DVD and plan on making the recovery discs for the factory install, but obviously, those discs will only be for the x86 version. Do you think I can get all the drivers off the web somehow? When you said you found all the drivers (minus the corrupted video drivers), did you download them all from lenovo's website? Thanks.

stallen · #15 Post by **stallen** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:35 pm

rog1039 wrote:Hey Ken,

I have a question about how you activated Vista 64-bit.

Did you use a 64-bit DVD of Vista with your OEM key from the bottom of the X61? Or did you buy a new copy of Vista 64-bit to perform this installation?

I'm wondering if I can use a 64-bit Vista DVD from work with the OEM key that my X61 came with.

Thanks!

Paul

Hopefully Ken will answer your question, but I think I know the answers. Yes, you can use a 64-bit Vista DVD. Supposedly you can also use the 64-bit anytime upgrade DVD. The product key is the same for 32-bit and 64-bit. the product key determines version (ie Home Premium, Buisiness etc.) but it is the same for 32 & 64 bit.

However, I wouldn't use the product key on the sticker unless you want to call microsoft to complete the activation process. There is a different product key hiddden in your hard drive from the manufacturer. I plan on using this guide: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=120228

It provides a link to a ABS utility that will back-up your activation files. The guide is very nice and describes in detail how to do this.

kengetz · #16 Post by **kengetz** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:13 pm

Rog1039:

At one point, I had installed Vista x64 from the DVD I got with my MSDN subscription, and I did find ALL the drivers online (except for the video one, which I downloaded from Intel's site. I was still getting blue screens, and the screen driver was still failing regularly.

Since then, I recreated the disk using the 64-bit restore disks I got from Lenovo. Still failed in exactly the same way. Put on the new turbo memory driver (dated 7/3/2007), and the blue screens stopped. Replaced the video driver with the linked to above, and the video problems stopped. I have to believe that I (or you) would have the same behavior with a clean install. Because the restore disks didn't put any "crapware" on the disk other than Norton Internet Security (which I immediately removed), I'm happy with this method of installation.

I've never had success using the key on the computer back side for re-installation, but because I have an MSDN license, I never needed to use it. -- Ken

stallen · #17 Post by **stallen** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:30 pm

kengetz wrote:Rog1039:

At one point, I had installed Vista x64 from the DVD I got with my MSDN subscription, and I did find ALL the drivers online (except for the video one, which I downloaded from Intel's site. I was still getting blue screens, and the screen driver was still failing regularly.

Since then, I recreated the disk using the 64-bit restore disks I got from Lenovo. Still failed in exactly the same way. Put on the new turbo memory driver (dated 7/3/2007), and the blue screens stopped. Replaced the video driver with the linked to above, and the video problems stopped. I have to believe that I (or you) would have the same behavior with a clean install. Because the restore disks didn't put any "crapware" on the disk other than Norton Internet Security (which I immediately removed), I'm happy with this method of installation.

I've never had success using the key on the computer back side for re-installation, but because I have an MSDN license, I never needed to use it. -- Ken

The vidieo drivers are available on the Lenovo downloads page. I don't see a turbo memory driver with that date from Lenovo or Intel... URL please.

DavidNY · #18 Post by **DavidNY** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:02 pm

kengetz wrote:the Windows key REALLY gets in the way! Wish they had never added that...
-- Ken

Have you tried remapping it? (I remapped mine to 'Alt')

Antioch · #19 Post by **Antioch** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:51 pm

Ken: Are you able to enable/disable the Turbo Memory in the BIOS?

I've been thinking about getting a X61 with Vista (and the Turbo Memory) to future proof my machine. Downgrade to XP, and dual boot with Linux, then in a few months or so once Vista has been tuned a bit more, reinstall Vista on the XP partition.

However, both XP and Linux do not support the Turbo Memory (so far as I know) so until I reinstall Vista I'd like to turn the Turbo Memory off (as I can't use it) and save some power.

#20 Post by **tomh009** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:49 pm

Just pop out the card. It only takes 15 minutes ...

kengetz · #21 Post by **kengetz** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:20 pm

stallen:

Last time I tried, the video drivers for Vista x64 dated 6/1/2007 can't be extracted. And they don't seem to have updated since then. Just tried it again--still won't extract. Support and engineering have known about this for at least two and a half weeks. I have no idea why it's still not fixed.

As for the Turbo memory driver, it WAS on the page MIGR-67820. Unfortunately, today the page isn't available. No clue.

I've also found that Lenovo is far, far worse at keeping the driver links updated and correct than IBM was. The X61 list of drivers never had the complete list -- I had to do some searching to find the driver for the fingerprint reader, for example. It's just not there in the list (or wasn't, if it is currently). In addition, System Update doesn't bring down even CLOSE to the full set of updated drivers. That list isn't up to date, either. -- Ken

rog1039 · #22 Post by **rog1039** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:51 am

Hi All,

I took the plunge and installed Vista Ultimate 64-bit this weekend. For the most part, the process was pretty painless. I followed the instructions that are in the forum post at notebook review that Stallen posted above and so I was able to keep and re-use my activation file from the factory install. (Meaning, I didn't have to activate Vista. Vista Ultimate 32 was the factory installed operating system however, so I was just going from 32 Ultimate to 64 Ultimate)

I pretty much just went to Lenovo's website and downloaded every driver they had before I wiped my system and put them on a USB stick. I then reinstalled them all without too much trouble. Some drivers/programs were not available on the X61 download page, so I got some off the driver download matrix for the T series and I also downloaded the video driver and turbo memory driver off of Intel's web site.

I think I lucked out because I didn't get one blue screen the entire time. Although until I installed the new driver from Intel's web site the video driver would fail and restart about every 10-15 minutes.

Ken: Did you ever get active rotate working? I also was not able to get the computer to resume from standby when removing the pen from the holder. I'm not sure if that is because I haven't turned the option on, or because I didn't install the driver for it. I can't seem to find the option to have it resume from standy when removing the pen anymore.

In the end I think it took about half a day to get most everything back up and running. It was definitely worth it. I have noticed a difference in speed compared to 3 GB (30xx MB in 32-bit vs 4022 MB in 64-bit). But I also have a large number of applications running all the time.

So, I would say that if you have formatted hard drives and installed operating systems before, the jump to 64-bit Vista should be relatively painless.

Paul

kengetz · #23 Post by **kengetz** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:08 pm

Paul:

Active rotate is working quite nicely in Vista x64. Bring up the Tablet Shortcut Menu, and select Settings at the bottom of the window. Enable ActiveRotate on the settings screen. Works great.

(I know I'll regret saying this, being somewhat superstitious about computers but...) I haven't had a single blue screen since fixing up all the drivers. Been very stable for about a week now. Very happy with the computer. -- Ken

mgags7 · #24 Post by **mgags7** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:09 am

I'm glad that you're able to get it to work well now, but I'd like to ask a question if I could. Why did you change to x64? Just to see if you can do it?

The way I see it, most apps are still in 32b and I would think the 64b deal would be more of a pain than it is worth. In a lot of benchmark tests it really doesn't even perform that much better, only in one certain type of cpu op does it help a lot.

kengetz · #25 Post by **kengetz** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:08 pm

I work as a programmer/writer. I need as much memory as possible, often running two (or even more) VPCs concurrently. 4GB is a LOT more than the 3GB that's available in Vista x86. And, in addition, Vista x64 just feels a lot more stable than Vista x86. Yes, most (all) apps are still 32-bit, but not for long. Think back to 1995. If Windows 95 had been available in a 16-bit version, would you have run it that way? With all its limits? Even though just about every application was a 16-bit application? It was painful switching from a 16-bit world to a 32-bit world. The switch from 32 to 64 bits isn't nearly as painful, and it adds advantages (like stability, and more available memory).

The only thing I haven't yet been able to configure is a PC-card based eSATA driver. Just won't install. Have to wait for signed 64-bit drivers. -- Ken

wpj · #26 Post by **wpj** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:55 pm

Well one late night and one day slocking from work and x64 is up and runnign nicely,

setup is SXGA+, 4G kingston x64 ultimate with ultra base and laptop stand. extenal D221 monitor hung from the wall, fingerprint keyboard and lazer mouse.

simply amazing.

now to modify my oter ultrasbase to mount in the car.

will

rog1039 · #27 Post by **rog1039** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:17 pm

Hello All,

Thanks Ken for the telling me how to access those settings. I don't think I've seen them since the day I got my tablet. So, I set up Auto-rotation and changed the rotation scheme I want applied when I switch to tablet but nothing happened. When I go to tablet the screen stays at the same rotation it has when it's in laptop mode no matter how I change that setting. After calibrating auto-rotate it also still does nothing. So I have both features turned on, but they don't seem to be in effect.

Even the resume from standby when removing tablet pen option does nothing. I'm not really sure what's going on with my tablet over here.

Any ideas would be appreciated since I'm not too sure what would cause those settings to be ineffective. I'm going to re-install Vista x64 this weekend since Lenovo is sending me a replacement hard drive (the hard drive it came with has a very annoying high pitch wail pretty much all the time). I'll see if it somehow works after I re-install.

mgags7: I did the upgrade to be able to access 4gb RAM as opposed to the 3gb RAM availible in 32 bit as well.

Ken: Just curious, what virtualization software do you use? I tried to install VMWare server recently but none of the drivers were signed so it failed miserably.

Paul

spune · #28 Post by **spune** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:47 pm

Paul,

So it's confirmed that you can use the 32-bit activation files and have them work on a 64-bit OS?

kengetz · #29 Post by **kengetz** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:16 pm

Paul:

I'm using VMWare workstation, not Server. Works fine. -- Ken

rog1039 · #30 Post by **rog1039** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:10 pm

Spune: Yes, follow the guide linked to above and you will be able to use your activation files from the 32-bit install with the 64 bit edition.

X61 Tablet and Vista x64

X61 Tablet and Vista x64

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