ZoneAlarm crashes my T60p / XP on startup

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Anthony S · #1 Post by **Anthony S** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:19 pm

I just installed the basic (free) version of ZoneAlarm and it caused my TP to crash (BSOD) on every restart. When I removed ZoneAlarm the crashes stopped. Sigh of relief!

Perhaps a conflict with some ThinkVantage utility or Symantec Anti-virus or other software?

I'm not sure this is specific to T60, but I have no other TP to compare.

Redmumba · #2 Post by **Redmumba** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:22 pm

I don't think its specific to Thinkpads at all.

I had this problem on an older Dell desktop (the one I'm typing on now, actually, since I'm "working"). It seems to come and go with the Windows installation. You may want to have a look at the ZoneAlarm forums here for further information on the topic.

#3 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:59 pm

I have had problems with ZoneAlarm in the past as well. I abandoned ZoneAlarm about 2 years ago and went with Kerio. The main conflict was when I was using my cellular connection.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14229

Redmumba · #4 Post by **Redmumba** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:09 pm

Another great replacement that I've found is Outpost... I find it to be much easier to use, for me at least.

Anthony S · #5 Post by **Anthony S** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:24 pm

Thanks for suggesting alternatives, but the only Kerio firewall I see on their website is a corporate gateway firewall. I see nothing for home/private users.

#6 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:41 pm

Sunbelt Software bought Kerio Personal Firewall from Kerio a couple of years back. You can get it here:
http://www.sunbelt-software.com/Home-Ho ... -Firewall/

Caveat: while I like Kerio Personal Firewall 4, AFAIK it has not had any updates in the last couple of years.

cflutist · #7 Post by **cflutist** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:15 pm

We installed Zone Alarm on my new T61 (XP Pro) just the other night and it works fine. However, hubby did tell me that we had to remove what was loaded on the TP from the factory first.

Anthony S · #8 Post by **Anthony S** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:54 pm

cflutist wrote:...hubby did tell me that we had to remove what was loaded on the TP from the factory first.

I guess you mean Windows Firewall. Even with that turned off ZoneAlarm repeatedly crashes on restart. Or did hubby remove something else?

pae77 · #9 Post by **pae77** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:30 pm

I've had Zone Alarm Pro running on my T42p successfully for years. Whenever ZoneAlarm starts acting up, it is usually a problem caused by the faulty installation of some other program. Most recently, I experienced this with a recent version of Skype.

The program I can imagine would need to be removed from a stock TP for ZoneAlarm to work properly would be all the Symantec Norton stuff. There actually is a removal tool available from Symantec to help rid your machine of their atrocious and pernicious product.

Anthony S · #10 Post by **Anthony S** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:51 pm

pae77 wrote:Whenever ZoneAlarm starts acting up, it is usually a problem caused by the faulty installation of some other program.

Why is some other program at fault? Perhaps ZoneAlarm is at fault, if it has compatibility problems with so many other programs?

pae77 wrote: The program I can imagine would need to be removed from a stock TP for ZoneAlarm to work properly would be all the Symantec Norton stuff.

Well, I removed the Norton stuff as in the IBM preload, but I now have my company's corporate version of Norton anti-virus installed.

pae77 wrote:...Symantec Norton stuff...atrocious and pernicious product.

Please explain why it is atrocious and pernicious. On a couple of occasions it has caught a pernicious virus!

pae77 · #11 Post by **pae77** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:28 pm

Anthony S wrote:Why is some other program at fault? Perhaps ZoneAlarm is at fault, if it has compatibility problems with so many other programs?

* * *

Please explain why [Norton] is atrocious and pernicious. On a couple of occasions it has caught a pernicious virus!

Well, in my case ZoneAlarm hasn't had a compatibility problem with any applications (except with other Firewalls which is quite proper as only one software firewall application should be running on one's system at a time). The problem I mentioned with Skype was not caused by any incompatibility with ZoneAlarm. It was that something with the Skype installer messed up a lot of things with my installation of XP, and the problems I subsequently experienced with ZoneAlarm were just a symptom of that much larger problem. It was not a problem with ZoneAlarm per se and it was fixed once I recovered from the problems caused by the Skype installer.

Norton is atrocious and pernicious (IMO only of course), because: 1) It is an unnecessarily heavy user of system resources which often results in slower overall system performance, especially on slower machines like my ancient T42p. 2) It is extremely difficult to completely uninstall it and remove all traces from one's system once it has been installed, hence the manufacturer has found it necessary to provide a "removal tool." 3) It is not most effective antivirus solution available. (See for example recent test results by AV Comparatives.) There are several more effective solutions available that consume less system resources.

Anthony S · #12 Post by **Anthony S** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:39 pm

pae77 wrote:There are several more effective solutions available that consume less system resources.

That may well be so, but nothing you have said warrants judging the product as "atrocious and pernicious".

In any case, I am more concerned with whether there is an incompatibility issue between Symantec anti-virus and ZoneAlarm firewall. I don't see why there should be, but you never know

pae77 · #13 Post by **pae77** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:05 pm

Perhaps my sentiment is a little overstated but I have seen good results come from purging that program from several systems and replacing it with other alternatives.

Getting back to ZA: It might be worthwhile trying uninstalling ZA, rebooting and reinstalling ZA, if you haven't done that already. Also, in ZoneAlarm iteslf, make sure you are running the latest version and make sure that your AV program has full permissions. Also, make sure the Symantec program doesn't already have a firewall component running and if it does, either turn it off or use it instead of ZA. Only one firewall should be running at a time.

Anthony S · #14 Post by **Anthony S** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:18 pm

pae77 wrote:It might be worthwhile trying uninstalling ZA, rebooting and reinstalling ZA, if you haven't done that already.

Yes, I've done that.

Also, in ZoneAlarm iteslf, make sure you are running the latest version...

Yes, I downloaded the latest version.

...and make sure that your AV program has full permissions.

It does.

Also, make sure the Symantec program doesn't already have a firewall component running...

Symantec is only AV, no firewall.

Only one firewall should be running at a time.

I know, the only firewall I have is Windows Firewall and I turned it off - I'm looking for a replacement for it!

#15 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:54 pm

You might be interested in this firewall analysis I ran across earlier today.

http://www.matousec.com/projects/window ... esults.php

cflutist · #16 Post by **cflutist** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:01 pm

pae77 wrote: The program I can imagine would need to be removed from a stock TP for ZoneAlarm to work properly would be all the Symantec Norton stuff. There actually is a removal tool available from Symantec to help rid your machine of their atrocious and pernicious product.

Yes, that is what he removed before installing Zone Alarm.

You can read about it here:
http://forums.zonealarm.com/zonelabs/bo ... e.id=69106

pae77 · #17 Post by **pae77** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:48 pm

That link in the previous post goes into great detail on how to get ZA working properly if one is experiencing the kind of problems described in this thread. I highly recommend reviewing the steps listed there.

pae77 · #18 Post by **pae77** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:29 pm

By the way, if anyone is interested in checking out how well their current firewall is working, the site linked below provides some pretty cool free online tests.

http://www.grc.com

At that link, check out the links to "Shields Up!" which provides several tests and also the link to the "Leak Test." There is a very interesting discussion there concerning the Leak Test and which firewalls are deficient. The author of that site is critical of most firewalls but particularly critical of the Symantec solution. "LeakTest easily demonstrates that the various Symantec/Norton firewalls are among the least secure of all firewalls in the industry." http://www.grc.com/lt/howtouse.htm

According to the author of that site, ZA (and one other firewall, if set correctly) were the only firewalls tested to date which pass the leak test. "ZoneAlarm (and optionally the Tiny Personal Firewall) goes the extra mile of generating a "Cryptographic Signature" for every permitted program. This signature is then regenerated and compared before any program of that name is again allowed access. This completely prevents this simple form of trusted program impersonation, but NO OTHER FIREWALLS OFFER THIS CAPABILITY." (Capitals in original.) http://www.grc.com/lt/howtouse.htm

I think it is worthwhile to review the material presented at the above referenced site for those not already familiar with it. After reviewing that material I came to the conclusion that it is worth the extra hassle that may be involved in getting ZA functioning properly on one's system. If ZA doesn't work properly, imo, it frequently is indicative that there may be some other problem with the host system.

rmendoza · #19 Post by **rmendoza** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:00 am

I second the opinion about Kerio, specially if you have access to the full-license version (it's usually corporate). It gives you great control over most everything, and it's pretty effective - it's just not compatible with Vista yet.

ZoneAlarm crashes my T60p / XP on startup

ZoneAlarm crashes my T60p / XP on startup

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