Build Quality of the T61? (UPDATE: Not so good)

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pesce · #1 Post by **pesce** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:21 pm

Update

Just got it. In a bit of a rush, but 1st impressions are mixed.

Exterior fit and finish: pretty good. It pretty much "feels" like a thinkpad. The plastics are not as cheap as the T60 I saw at Circuit City, but not great.

Keyboard: just ok. Not as good as my T42, but better than most consumer laptops you'll see in the store.

Thickness: it's too thick. That's it. If you're debating between the R and the T, don't get the R if portability is an issue.

Screen: disappointed. On the plus side, it's definitely brighter than my T42. But the viewing angles are bad and the worst part is that it has the sparkle/glitter effect (particularly obvious when viewing white backgrounds). It seems especially hard to view on a high resolution screen (WXGA+). I'm not sure how a computer with that type of screen makes it past QC.

The screen might be a deal-breaker for me. A $1500+ business laptop that is hard to look at in Word or IE isn't very useful.

__________________________________

I placed an order for a T61 14.1" widescreen a few days ago, but I'm thinking about canceling because I'm concerned about the build quality.

I've owned 3 thinkpads and currently use a 14" T42. Despite a few issues, I think the construction of the 14" T42 is generally excellent. I've also used a 15" T42 with flexview, and that might be the best constructed consumer electronic I've ever seen.

The reason I'm concerned about the T61 is that I saw a T60 15.4" widescreen yesterday at Circuit City and was very disappointed with the decline in build quality. The outer plastic casing was relatively cheap and flimsy. The keyboard was decidely not up to Thinkpad standards. The screen was very dim (even for a Thinkpad), and had that terrible sparkle effect when viewing white backgrounds. The touchpad was too small and the mouse buttons seemed to have an awkward design.

In short, I didn't really care for it (obviously). It actually made the 14.1" HP next to it seem pretty well constructed. Anyone, especially IBM Thinkpad owners, willing to vouch for the quality of the T61? Thanks.[/b]

Redmumba · #2 Post by **Redmumba** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:48 pm

I can tell you, I've been using my girlfriend's T43 off and on, and there are only a few differences in build quality.

One of the things I dislike about the T61 is that the palm rest feels relatively flimsy compared to the rest of the notebook. One of the things I liked about the T43's palm rest was that it felt like a brick. Resting your hands on the T61's palm rest won't cause it to flex, but it generally does not feel as sturdy.

Otherwise, the screen and base are both superb. One of the things I noticed about the T43 was that the screen would "bend" if it was put under pressure. The T61's screen feels like I could sit on it, and it wouldn't bulge at the slightest. Same with the base (sans palm rest). The quality is as tough as ever. Hinges are strong as well--haven't had it long enough (obviously) to test the wear and tear over time, but I don't have any doubts.

Heat dissipation is amazing, and the cooling system has improved tenfold over previous models. The fan is ridiculously quiet... I actually hated how quiet it was when I first got it, because I wasn't used to the light indicators yet; so when I would go to put it on standby, I couldn't tell whether it was on or off. Its that quiet. Even under heavy usage (graphics card + cpu), the bottom hardly gets above a slight warm feeling, one that's more than comfortable against bare skin. Heck, it doesn't even make my legs sweat.

The Touchpad is definitely smaller than anything I'm used to, but I actually prefered it. I don't even notice the difference while using it; its only visually bothersome when I look at it.

As for the screen? I got the LG screen, and its pretty bright, with no sparkle effect. The only complaint is that there's a bit of leakage at the bottom of the screen, really only noticeable on blacks or other dark colors. Overall, the screen is the only "average" part about this laptop.

Hope this helps! If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask...

EDIT: My roommate purchased the T60P during the year, and I wasn't too impressed--it definitely didn't feel as sturdy as what the T43 or the T61 felt like. Just my opinion...

rockyp · #3 Post by **rockyp** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:57 pm

Well, as you said, intial reports of build quality are spotty. I just received my 14-inch T61 (with XP) on Friday and was delighted by the build quality of my unit. It suffered none of the shortcomings others have reported. I also have a T42 and will now gladly put it to pasture.

Please note that this may be a case of luck of the draw. Lenovo is manufacturing them in at least two different factories (Shenzen and Shanghai) and product quality seems to be inconsistent.

So, in my case, I'm a satisfied customer of the T61 (thus far).

Edited to add: I have some pictures here that show my T61 side-by-side with my wife's Dell D620 (with upgraded screen).

Puppy · #4 Post by **Puppy** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:48 pm

rockyp wrote:Edited to add: I have some pictures here that show my T61 side-by-side with my wife's Dell D620 (with upgraded screen).

Good pictures, the T61-D620_12 clearly shows we are ten years back regarding display "quality" since FlexView is no longer available.

agarza · #5 Post by **agarza** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:25 pm

Seems the T61 as a very solid and quiet Thinkpad. I would like to get a new T61. I guess I would have to import it from US back to my country.

#6 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:43 pm

Puppy wrote:Good pictures, the T61-D620_12 clearly shows we are ten years back regarding display "quality" since FlexView is no longer available.

I can't agree more with you. T61 is definitely brighter but the viewing angles are simply ordinary. Long gone IPS!
T61 owners might disagree with me but that's a fact.

As far as the build quality is concerned, it's very robust and rigid. However, it has design flaws but many customers seem to live with it, considering having other advantages, notably no heat/fan issues and new chipset.

xtr wrote:Seems the T61 as a very solid and quiet Thinkpad. I would like to get a new T61. I guess I would have to import it from US back to my country.

Isn't it available in Mehico(accent) yet?

sokos · #7 Post by **sokos** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:13 pm

mr.Fish (pesce) don't worry about the build quality.
It's Thinkpad alright! Very very solid and feels great!

Keyboard might be an issue but search a bit and thou shall be enlightened

pesce · #8 Post by **pesce** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:15 pm

Thanks to everyone for the input and the pictures. I'll give it a try (too bad there's a 15% restocking fee now).

If the laptop weren't for professional use, I'd probably get something else...maybe even the new Dell (gasp!) 1330m. But I really am not comfortable staring at and working on documents for hours on end on anything but a thinkpad. I need the trackpoint, quality keyboard, and matte screen.

If there's an acknowledged better keyboard and better screen manufacturer (I'm getting the wxga+), and I can look it up by model number, please let me know. Thanks!

sokos · #9 Post by **sokos** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:18 pm

welcome to the Dark Side of the Force

for keyboard check out my story with my T61
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

pesce · #10 Post by **pesce** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:30 pm

Ha! I read that before, but my father doesn't have a z61t keyboard I can "borrow" from him. Can I buy one from lenovo? IBM used to just swap out the keyboard if you asked...

sokos · #11 Post by **sokos** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:53 pm

Yeah sure you can get one, the highest price for one is €50 so ...

But still, it's lottery.. first get the machine, you might fall on a good one from the beginning

tphawk · #12 Post by **tphawk** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:42 am

Received two T61s 10 days ago, identical systems -- and each requires immediate repair!

One is already sent to Memphis for repair. The TrackPoint jumps all over the screen, selects menus even though nothing is being clicked, and makes the computer unusuable.

The second T61 is about to go to Memphis because the wi-fi -- the new Intel B/G/N internal card -- runs at 1/10th the speed of the wi-fi in all my other ThinkPads. Tested on several access points, compared to X40, X31, T30, and HP laptops, the T61's connection is too slow to be usable. It's even slower than a Sprint EV-DO card in the same computer, so that's what we're using for now.

The T61 seems to work fine on a wired network connection, but that's not quite the point of having a lightweight laptop. It seems to be a wi-fi-only problem. We're not running a firewall or virus checking or anything else during the speed tests. We shut down Lenovo's Access Connections because it fought with Windows connection manager leading to frequent lockups.

The mystery is, why is wi-fi so slow? Bad Intel card? Poor driver? Internal radio antenna problem (though signal strength seems good)? Something about Vista? Or something else?

It might be Vista, which can be slow to copy files across a wired connection. But 1/10th normal speed???

We bought the two T61s to evaluate the new model, and so-far, it's been a horrible experience similar to what still afflicts our T30 (fortunately we bought just one of those dogs), not the wonderful experience of the 600, T20, X40, and a decade+ of earlier ThinkPads.

#13 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:00 pm

So, are you saying that both T61's had an identical 'Intel B/G/N internal card', both run Vista, both have 'access connections' disabled, and only one of them is having WiFi connection issues? The other is fine connecting and running on wireless networks?

jbrown · #14 Post by **jbrown** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:34 pm

come on guys, I have read so many posts complaining about software/drivers issues...that doesn't mean automatically that the T61 in itself is bad

don't forget that Vista is a new operating system with many adjustments needed and that the drivers can't have the stability of XP ones, which have been tested for 6 years

exlax · #15 Post by **exlax** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:44 pm

Overall the quality is pretty good, but I agree that the palm rest is cheap and creaky. Im not overly impressed by my Thinkpad. The soft touch plastics would have been used more than just the top.

Kenn · #16 Post by **Kenn** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:36 pm

I've been using a 15" UXGA flexview T42p and 14.1" t42 SXGA+ for three years, and just checked out a 14" T61 wide yesterday. My initial impressions:

I've owned 3 thinkpads and currently use a 14" T42. Despite a few issues, I think the construction of the 14" T42 is generally excellent. I've also used a 15" T42 with flexview, and that might be the best constructed consumer electronic I've ever seen.

Generally agree. I think the MBPs are probably better than the t4x generation, but the banias and dothan-era thinkpads are built like tanks. My 15" NEVER got any keyboard scuff marks on the LCD.

The reason I'm concerned about the T61 is that I saw a T60 15.4" widescreen yesterday at Circuit City and was very disappointed with the decline in build quality. The outer plastic casing was relatively cheap and flimsy. The keyboard was decidely not up to Thinkpad standards. The screen was very dim (even for a Thinkpad), and had that terrible sparkle effect when viewing white backgrounds. The touchpad was too small and the mouse buttons seemed to have an awkward design.

I was impressed with the T61 build quality in general. The plastic LCD cover has a bit of give, but I pressed firmly against it and it doesn't translate into screen ripple - that internal rollcage does the job well.

I loved the keyboard. It felt solid, responsive, and tactile. Note that I'm not a "key pounder" but I type fairly quickly and have gone through 6 keyboards for the 15" and 4 for the 14" (all NMB Thai boards). I like the 14" t42 feel best, followed closely by the T61. I never quite warmed up to the 15" T42 keyboards, which uniformly had a bit more resistance in keypresses.

I also flexed the chassis, and IMO the T61 felt more solid, and creaks less than my 15" T42p, which also had a palmrest creak that got loud enough for me to take apart and reinforce with a bit of business card and foam tape.

The screen is adequate, but certainly not bright, and didn't have the excellent viewing angles of the flexview. I'm gonna miss it.

Also noticed how small the touchpad is. Nowadays I use a BT mouse whenever I can, so the only think I care about is the retention of the middle ultranav button

Finally, I turned the volume all the way up, and man those speakers are quiet. The 14" T42 can get pretty loud. The 15" T42p is extremely quiet (same speakers mounted internally and with more chassis dead space), but I was surprised that the palmrest-mounted, upward-facing T61 speakers were even more quiet than the t42p. Not a big deal for me, but media junkies will probably care more.

In short, I didn't really care for it (obviously). It actually made the 14.1" HP next to it seem pretty well constructed. Anyone, especially IBM Thinkpad owners, willing to vouch for the quality of the T61? Thanks.

HPs have been getting a lot better lately, but I still don't like the keyboard flex and some of the design oversights (the thinkpads have shielded microphones that work very well, whereas nobody can hear me on the HP because the mic is so close to the HDD that the clicking noise gets picked up and is unbearably loud).

I was a bit concerned with all the talk about diminishing TP quality too, but for me, it's not really warranted. Note I haven't checked out any of the "consumer-grade" Z models. IMO, no thinkpads are up to the build quality of the old T20/30, but I think the current models are good compromises of size/weight/sturdiness.

tphawk · #17 Post by **tphawk** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:53 pm

>> So, are you saying that both T61's had an identical 'Intel B/G/N internal card', both run Vista, both have 'access connections' disabled, and only one of them is having WiFi connection issues? The other is fine connecting and running on wireless networks?

No, I'm saying ONE of them has a wi-fi speed problem, cause unknown.

The other one was immediately sent in to repair the TrackPoint, so bad that the computer was almost impossible to use, SO... While its wi-fi worked during brief tests, I don't know about its wi-fi speed. I didn't suspect a problem (never seen the problem in other computers -- I deal with several hundred) until after it was sent in.

If it's software, likely the problem affects both of them because they presumably have identical drive images. But maybe it's a poor wi-fi card, or poor antenna or connection (I once found a ThinkPad with the antenna wires NOT connected to the card). Any guesses as to the cause?

#18 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:22 pm

Personally I'd wait until the other machine came back from repair then see if the WiFi works. If it does, then it should be easy to isolate. At that point you could also swap WiFi cards etc.

Ewan · #19 Post by **Ewan** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:58 pm

Don't cancel your order and give it a try.
Return it in 30 days if you still don't like it.

wswartzendruber · #20 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:35 pm

This journalist came through where I was at and he asked me to do something for him on his T61, and that thing was AWESOME! The build was slightly better than my T60 and the screen was BRIGHT.

jgrobertson · #21 Post by **jgrobertson** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:46 pm

my two bits worth. Install all the automatic updates from MS and Lenovo and then see what you have. There are a lot of them. Pay attention to the order in which the power, softkey, video and wifi drivers are installed.

I found that the patches from both MS and Lenovo made a world of difference and I continue to run Vista 64. On balance, it does a lot of things better but there are rough edges that will smooth out with time.

pesce · #22 Post by **pesce** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:43 am

Ewan wrote:Don't cancel your order and give it a try.
Return it in 30 days if you still don't like it.

I will. It shipped out today! Ordered 6/28

I don't think we get 30 days anymore though. I think it's 21 days with a 15% restocking fee (if not defective).

pesce · #23 Post by **pesce** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:36 pm

bump for the update

chadwicktr · #24 Post by **chadwicktr** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:34 pm

Is it a Samsung or LG screen?

pesce · #25 Post by **pesce** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:44 pm

chadwicktr wrote:Is it a Samsung or LG screen?

How do I check?

chadwicktr · #26 Post by **chadwicktr** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:18 am

pesce wrote:
chadwicktr wrote:Is it a Samsung or LG screen?

How do I check?

Go Herefor a part's lookup:

Then search the hardware maintenance manual (under user guides and manuals) for that FRU number OR search google w/ the FRU number.

pesce · #27 Post by **pesce** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:57 am

Thanks, it's the LG (FRU: 42T0406)...isn't that supposed to be the better screen?

Also, I plugged the battery in for the first time tonight. With the battery plugged in, the fan runs incessantly, but the fan returns to normal operation when I unplug the battery (and restart). Has anyone experienced this? (I haven't tried it on battery power alone yet)

michaelk · #28 Post by **michaelk** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:44 am

pesce wrote:Thanks, it's the LG (FRU: 42T0406)...isn't that supposed to be the better screen?

Also, I plugged the battery in for the first time tonight. With the battery plugged in, the fan runs incessantly, but the fan returns to normal operation when I unplug the battery (and restart). Has anyone experienced this? (I haven't tried it on battery power alone yet)

the fan settings are ontrolled by your power manager settings. If you want it to turn on and off when plugged in just adjust it.

megalosaurus · #29 Post by **megalosaurus** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:13 am

This may be a bit OT, but for all those of you who are not having problems with your wireless adapter, you should remember to try out a wired connection once in a while. I had a ThinkPad with a bad NIC and I only discovered it accidentally less than two weeks before the warranty expired. I'm sure it must have worked when it was new, since I always use the Ethernet when I'm configuring a new computer and leave the wireless setup for the last step.

aquarapid · #30 Post by **aquarapid** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:53 pm

pesce wrote: Thickness: it's too thick. That's it. If you're debating between the R and the T, don't get the R if portability is an issue.

I got my T61 a few days ago, along with an R61 for a collegue (both 14.1 inch, and just about identically configured).

I was surprised how close the two are in thickness, and weight. Unless you put them right next to each other, you would be really hard-pressed to tell the difference. According to the IBM datasheets, the difference in weight is less than a quarter pound (< 5%), and I would concur.

IMHO, these is just about zero difference in the portability of the T and the R.

As far as the rest of my observations if anyone cares (not all build-quality related):

- Generally, build quality is good. Not great, like the Thinkpads from yesteryear, but definitely superior to the Dells of this world.

- The screen latch mechanism bugs me. I'd prefer the old-style double latch system. This causes the case to not close 100% flush for me on the left-hand-side.

- The 65W portable (standard?) AC adapter gets really hot. This is a little concerning. However, the AC adapter size is great. A longer (and thinner) cord would have been nice.

- My T61 is ultra-quiet. Quietest laptop I've ever used, especially when running flat out on both cores.

- The lack of a DVI port and some type of TV-output is a shame. This would have been trivial to add for Lenovo.

- Leaving my biggest issue for last: The [censored] keyboard. The build quality is fine, but the Fn vs CTRL key layout???!! What were they thinking?

Build Quality of the T61? (UPDATE: Not so good)

Build Quality of the T61? (UPDATE: Not so good)

Have two T61s, both have problems

Re: Build Quality of the T61?

Re: Build Quality of the T61? (UPDATE: Not so good)

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