Size matters... X61s vs x61 Tablet

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jamess · #1 Post by **jamess** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:38 pm

I was 100% positive to buy X61s due to it low(est) weight/size. However, reading reviews and user experience, I am now (even more) disturbed by it's 1024*768 screen.

I know I'd be using Tablet mode at the most for 10%, but since it can be ordered with SXGA+ screen, I am now tempted to buy tablet.

Is there anyone who either owns or owned X60s/X61s AND X60/X61 Tablet... So to give me an idea how does the size/weight difference feel...

If I did buy X61 Tablet it would have only been for the sake of the screen. Tablet form is just an extra gadget that (when used) is probably a nice toy.

Thanks for your help.. it's very hard to decide!

pianowizard · #2 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:54 pm

Which battery would you be ordering? Slimline 4-cell (only for the X60s and X61s), enhanced 4-cell, or 8-cell? With a 4-cell battery, the X61 tablet weighs around 3.8 lbs, which is still not too bad.

jamess wrote:I am now (even more) disturbed by it's 1024*768 screen.

Yes, you should be disturbed by the non-tablets' 1024x768 screen.

#3 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:32 pm

PW, I know you hate the X61's XGA screen (as well as the weight and lack of optical drive) but that really does not meant that everyone else needs to hate it, too.

pianowizard · #4 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:51 pm

tomh009 wrote:PW, I know you hate the X61's XGA screen..... but that really does not meant that everyone else needs to hate it, too.

I understood that, but if you read jamess' post more carefully, you'll realize that he became "even more" disturbed by the XGA screen after reading reviews, implying that he was already disturbed by it before reading that reviews.

tomh009 wrote: (as well as the weight and lack of optical drive)

I have never said that I hate the X series' lack of an optical drive -- I rarely (though not "never") use optical drives on the road, so there's no reason for me to "hate" the X series due to its lack of an internal optical drive. You obviously misunderstood me in that recent thread where we had this discussion last week. So, let me try it again: I find several Sony and Toshiba ultraportables more appealing than the Thinkpad X series mainly because they are lighter, but as a bonus, they also have internal optical drives. While I usually don't *need* an optical drive while traveling, it's nice to have one because I might need it someday.

Tom, I know you love the Thinkpad X series, especially the X31, but that doesn't mean everyone else needs to love it, too.

#5 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:28 pm

Yes, I do like the X series very much. While they are not perfect, they are the best compromise (and every single laptop out there is some sort of a compromise) for me.

But I try not to tell people that they must have A, B or C, or that D, E or F is no good for them. Each person has his or her own priorities, and I don't think I know their needs well enough to change those. I will, instead, try to provide guidance and advice for their ThinkPad choices based on the priorities they have expressed.

And, finally, yes, I am biased toward ThinkPads, but these are the ThinkPad forums after all ...

pianowizard · #6 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:43 pm

tomh009 wrote:But I try not to tell people that they must have A, B or C, or that D, E or F is no good for them.

I never do that either. Like I said, in this case, the OP already didn't like the XGA screen, and I was basically saying that I agreed with him. Had he said something like "Should I get XGA or SXGA+?", that would have been totally different and I wouldn't have responded that way.

vkyr · #7 Post by **vkyr** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:34 pm

Well, one month ago I had a chance to play around with both a X60s and a X60T, what I realized immediately is, that the X60s is still in size and weight more compact than it's tablet sibling. - If you put both side by side or one on top of the other, you can best recognize their size differences. The same applies here to their weights, when you hold them with just one hand from an edge.

However, it's generally always also a very subjective feeling about size and weight, meaning that most people will still be (or maybe are) comfortable with the overall tablets size and weight. Thus the best would be, if you have a chance to preview both of them somewhere, in order to compare them yourself.

Related to the screen resolution, of course it would be fine if the X61/X61s series would be also available optional with some better quality IPS/AFFS SXGA+ display, but unfortunately they aren't. Thus if the screen resolution is the most important factor for you, you have to go with the tablet, even it is bigger and weights more.

Related to the optical drive debate, I always wondered that there is no external odd bundled with the X-Series, like it is with other subnotebooks. - I usually don't need ...or let's say...rarely use a build-in drive on the road, but there are other times when it is nice to have one handy when needed. Thus I personally would like to see some external odd (ideally a DVD multi-burner) to be directly bundled with the X-series. Lenovo is optionally charging much for it's external optical drives, at least here in europe (...too much). And since Thinkpads are always very expensive in europe (the X-series is no exception here) I would at least like to see them bundling some external odd with the units, the same way other vendors/competitors do it.

#8 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:16 pm

Regarding the resolution debate, I have used XGA for several years on a 13.3" 600E and a 14.1" T42. A few months ago I began using 14.1" SXGA+ on a different T42. I have mixed feelings. Mostly I spend my time on the web. I use Opera with tabbed browsing. I prefer the larger fonts of XGA, but I prefer the clearer text of SXGA+. I also like that I can have my browser windowed in SXGA+ where I always kept it full screen in XGA. However this is only a moderate convenience and not really a big deal for me. Personally I would have no issue with owning a 12" XGA laptop. Either resolution would work for me in a 12" display. Only in a 15" (or larger) display do I find XGA not desirable.

I believe archer6 summed it up best in the following thread.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=39883

Antioch · #9 Post by **Antioch** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:25 pm

For the weight and size of the X60/1 Tablet you're better off going with a T61. The X61 Tablet is noticeably larger than the X61/s as well as heavier. I can't recall where, but I've dug up specs and reviews on both, and seen that the X61 Tablet is larger and weighs more, around 4.4lbs (I forget the exact number and don't have time to find it). For that amount of weight and size, why not just go the extra .6lbs and get a T series?

But I'm in the same boat as you. I want a higher resolution X6x notebook, and I've even thought about going for the tablet simply because of it's resolution. But to not use it as a tablet yet take the burden of it's size and weight completely negates the idea of an ultra portable machine, at such a size and weight increase you enter the T61 domain.

At least, that's how I feel about the subject.

jamess · #10 Post by **jamess** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:28 pm

Antioch wrote:
... But to not use it as a tablet yet take the burden of it's size and weight completely negates the idea of an ultra portable machine, at such a size and weight increase you enter the T61 domain.

At least, that's how I feel about the subject.

Agree 100%. Maybe i'll just wait, in case something (better) comes out later this year?!

Btw. is the difference with WVA (SuperView Angles or what's it called) on X61 Tablet a big difference from the XGA screen in X61s ? I mean... i only tilt my X60's screen back a little and colors change dramatically, same thing is from the sides... Is Tablet's screen a big step-up in this respect?

ptantra · #11 Post by **ptantra** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:29 pm

jamess wrote:Btw. is the difference with WVA (SuperView Angles or what's it called) on X61 Tablet a big difference from the XGA screen in X61s ? I mean... i only tilt my X60's screen back a little and colors change dramatically, same thing is from the sides... Is Tablet's screen a big step-up in this respect?

Take a look at some pictures of the WVA screen in sunlight: (Sorry, I don't know how to shorten a URL.)
http://www.ericmackonline.com/ICA/blogs ... ight-light

I think other threads here or at gottabemobile.com have pictures of the viewing angles.

I wanted to get an X61s but really wanted the SXGA+ resolution, so I bought the tablet. I don't think I'll use the tablet mode often, but I really wanted the resolution. After this weekend, I wish my tablet had been delivered already. I was working with someone using my T23. Every time my friend wanted to see the screen, she just grabbed my screen and forcefully rotated the entire laptop so she could see. In that respect, having the rotating screen of the tablet would've saved the poor rubber feet of the T23 (which was sitting on a glass table), not to mention, the force on the screen.

As I see it, the additional weight of the tablet is just another trade off for additional flexibility and possibilities the tablet format will offer you that conventional laptops won't. (Not to mention being able to discretely surf the web (in tablet mode) while sitting in a seminar you really don't want to be at.)

vkyr · #12 Post by **vkyr** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:09 pm

jamess wrote: Btw. is the difference with WVA (SuperView Angles or what's it called) on X61 Tablet a big difference from the XGA screen in X61s ? I mean... i only tilt my X60's screen back a little and colors change dramatically, same thing is from the sides... Is Tablet's screen a big step-up in this respect?

Of course it is, the X60 Tablet and X61 Tablet screens are mostly all AFFS (enhanced IPS) TFT panels and thus do offer stable contrasts over much higher viewing angles. - There are actually no better notebook panels available on the market than those IPS/AFFS TFT panels!

You can also alternatively search for and look over some pictures of T-/R-series notebooks, which are supplied with the so called FlexView 15" IPS panels, in order to get an idea where the difference in contrast to plain TN panels are.

#13 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:03 pm

ptantra wrote: > "Sorry, I don't know how to shorten a URL." <

Use the URL button when pasting long URL's in the post.

Highlight the entire URL, then click on the URL button. To replace a URL being displayed with text, you have to remove the second bracket just after [url, and replace with an = sign. Next add a bracket to the end of the URL (i.e. .com]). Now insert your desired text between the added bracket and the [/url] at the end.

Completed example: [url=http://www.your_long_url_here.com]Your desired text placed here.[/url]

I disabled BBCode in this post so that you could see. You can also hover the mouse over the URL button to see the format you should use.

dr_st · #14 Post by **dr_st** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:52 am

The X6?s vs X6?t is one heck of a dilemma.

Advantages of the tablet:

(1) High res available (although uesfulness on such as small screen is questionable)
(2) Existence of IPS wide-view angle panels (a very big deal to me, but not to everyone)

Disadvantages of the tablet:

(1) Costs more
(2) Heavier: the weight difference itself could be OK, but the problem is weight distribution. The tablet screen is very thick, and so most of the weight is in the screen, making it feel much heavier when used on one's lap (a similar problem exists with the 15" T-series models).
(3) Thicker: I got to handle one and almost felt it was too thick to be used comfortably as a tablet.

No easy solution here.

#15 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:46 am

dr_st wrote:No easy solution here.

I agree. I was tempted by the nice displays (and just maybe the tablet function would be nice with Photoshop) but in the end decided that the extra thickness and weight outweighed (!) the other advantages ... so it's a standard X61 for me.

As I keep saying, it's all about finding the right compromise that fits each person's needs ...

pianowizard · #16 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:00 am

Even though many people complain about the weight of the X60 and X61 tablets, the 4-cell models are still lighter than most other brands' (Toshiba, Gateway, etc.) tablets, I think? I wonder why all tablets need to be so heavy.

vkyr · #17 Post by **vkyr** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:09 am

tomh009 wrote: ...As I keep saying, it's all about finding the right compromise that fits each person's needs ...

Yep, that's true ...even it's often hard to find the right one/right compromise among the X-series and portable subnotebooks in general.

May I ask why you choosed a standard X61 over an let's say X61s UL, is it due to the CPU performance or some other reason?

#18 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:14 am

I was actually going to get an X61s ... I think the CPUs were fine, and I wanted the UltraLight display panel. However, Lenovo Canada only has a couple of X61s models available, none of them with UltraLight, and not the configs I wanted (we have no CTO models available in Canada). And the prices for those models were way higher than for comparable X61 models.

So ... no X61 tablet (too big), no X61s (no model choices), but I'll still be happy with a standard X61.

pianowizard · #19 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:26 am

Tom, after receiving your X61, will you sell one of your X31's?

#20 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:33 am

The X31 that's being replaced is a work one, and I have already had three people in the office asking for it.

So it doesn't look like it'll be available for sale -- sorry.

pianowizard · #21 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:57 am

tomh009 wrote:So it doesn't look like it'll be available for sale -- sorry.

I wasn't interested in buying it. I was just curious whether you were going to keep all three X-series.

#22 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:59 am

One ThinkPad is enough for me ... I thought maybe you wanted to try an SXGA+ transplant in an X31.

vkyr · #23 Post by **vkyr** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:09 pm

tomh009 wrote:...(we have no CTO models available in Canada)...

Ah yes I understand, here in germany we are sitting in the same boat, we don't have CTO models either.

- So we sadly have somehow to make much more compromises than the lucky people in the USA.

pianowizard · #24 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:55 pm

tomh009 wrote:I thought maybe you wanted to try an SXGA+ transplant in an X31.

If it's guaranteed to work, I would love to get an X61s and swap out its XGA screen with the X61 tablet's SXGA+ screen. But someone asked whether that's feasible in this thread and no one seemed to be sure.

5 July 2007 UPDATE: I just looked at the HMMs for the X60/61 and the X60/61 tablets and compared their LCD cables and inverter cards. They look very different, so I am almost certain that one can't replace the non-tablets' XGA displays with the tablets' SXGA+ displays. Too bad!

jamess · #25 Post by **jamess** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:18 pm

If I buy a CTO thinkpad model in the US, i'd only have to change the keyboard (that's probably simple to do?) and be careful to have the international warranty.

The English OS is what i want anyways, i hate localised/translated versions and/or language packs anyways... Oh, and the cable - adapters are also 110/230V and "world-wide" friendly.

Does anyone have an idea what's the apx. price of a keyboard?

#26 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:40 pm

Keyboards only cost about $50, but what you will find is that most CTO models are not covered by the international warranty. You can check the specific model numbers here:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... yle=lenovo

thaug · #27 Post by **thaug** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:54 am

vkyr wrote:
tomh009 wrote:...(we have no CTO models available in Canada)...
Ah yes I understand, here in germany we are sitting in the same boat, we don't have CTO models either. - So we sadly have somehow to make much more compromises than the lucky people in the USA.

You're not missing anything. I'm waiting for a CTO model to be built. It's been over a month. And if you wanted a T series, you would probably wait two months.

jamess · #28 Post by **jamess** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:21 pm

Grr... that's sad. I would be glad to wait if i were getting exactly what i wanted, but there is no way i'd go without international warranty.

I guess I am at a dead end now. I want a better screen and/or low(est) size and weight. Compromises are a necessity, but then again in Europe, there are so many of them i'd have to live with... Very few models available, one has that and doesn't have that and so on... I'll suppose i'll just wait until sept., if nothing new comes out in this part of the world, i'll just have to go with one of the preconfigured models

pianowizard · #29 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:33 pm

jamess wrote:I'll suppose i'll just wait until sept., if nothing new comes out in this part of the world, i'll just have to go with one of the preconfigured models

Have you ruled out other brands? If not, the Toshiba Portege R500 and the Panasonic Y7 have nicer overall specs (in terms of weight and resolution) than the X61s and X61 tablet.

#30 Post by **tomh009** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:42 pm

jamess wrote:I guess I am at a dead end now. I want a better screen and/or low(est) size and weight. Compromises are a necessity, but then again in Europe, there are so many of them i'd have to live with... Very few models available, one has that and doesn't have that and so on... I'll suppose i'll just wait until sept., if nothing new comes out in this part of the world, i'll just have to go with one of the preconfigured models

Did you check the US preconfigured models (available at a variety of resellers)?

Size matters... X61s vs x61 Tablet

Size matters... X61s vs x61 Tablet

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